Your bicep and tricep work outs

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
*snip*

People preacher curl with barbells? I've never seen that, only EZ bars. I like EZ bars... can't believe I didn't put regular EZ curls in there.

Edit: I've been arm barred, too. We must mean something different by "preacher curls."

No, not preacher curls with BBs. I was referring to EZ bar and DB preacher curls.

If you let the arm go to full extension, which is the "correct" form of the movement, you hyperextend the elbow. The armbar relies on hyperextension in this same fashion.

I've done preacher curls the same as any of the google images that come up when you google the term. Straight elbows, propped by the support "bench" with an amount of weight creating a torque that is forcing your elbows to hyperextend is what bothers me. I know several people who have injured themselves training these while doing everything "right." I can feel the joint pain doing just a set or two.

I suppose it's possible that there's just a difference in joint durability or flexibility. My natural ROM in my elbow is pretty large; if I just raise my arm with my shoulder and let the biceps relax, I get ~7 degree hyperextension. (Kinda like her) Perhaps on that account, I don't feel any torque if I let my arm go straight (or even a little past that) with sixty pounds or so, which is about as heavy as I've ever gone on d-bell preachers.

 

[Deeko]

I still can't say I've ever felt any undue pressure on my elbows or anything like that. *shrug* Everyone is different.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
*snip*

People preacher curl with barbells? I've never seen that, only EZ bars. I like EZ bars... can't believe I didn't put regular EZ curls in there.

Edit: I've been arm barred, too. We must mean something different by "preacher curls."

No, not preacher curls with BBs. I was referring to EZ bar and DB preacher curls.

If you let the arm go to full extension, which is the "correct" form of the movement, you hyperextend the elbow. The armbar relies on hyperextension in this same fashion.

I've done preacher curls the same as any of the google images that come up when you google the term. Straight elbows, propped by the support "bench" with an amount of weight creating a torque that is forcing your elbows to hyperextend is what bothers me. I know several people who have injured themselves training these while doing everything "right." I can feel the joint pain doing just a set or two.

I suppose it's possible that there's just a difference in joint durability or flexibility. My natural ROM in my elbow is pretty large; if I just raise my arm with my shoulder and let the biceps relax, I get ~7 degree hyperextension. (Kinda like her) Perhaps on that account, I don't feel any torque if I let my arm go straight (or even a little past that) with sixty pounds or so, which is about as heavy as I've ever gone on d-bell preachers.

Ugh, lol. That looks terrible. I have to flex my triceps to make my arm go completely straight and that creates pressure. With a load, that makes the pressure much greater. Interesting though. I always forget people have those elbows. To each his own then.

 

[presidentender]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Ugh, lol. That looks terrible. I have to flex my triceps to make my arm go completely straight and that creates pressure. With a load, that makes the pressure much greater. Interesting though. I always forget people have those elbows. To each his own then.

I think this type of thing might also explain a lot of our historical disagreement.

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: presidentender

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged
Ugh, lol. That looks terrible. I have to flex my triceps to make my arm go completely straight and that creates pressure. With a load, that makes the pressure much greater. Interesting though. I always forget people have those elbows. To each his own then.

I think this type of thing might also explain a lot of our historical disagreement.

Interesting. Yeah, I guess I never take hyper-flexibility into mind. I'll try to do so in reading your future posts.

 

[GenHoth]

+1 vote for preacher feeling like an armbar! Hurts like crazy if I'm not careful with the weight

 

[ANGRYEAGLE]

If you want big arms, pull ups are the way to go. That and bench dips. I usually put a 45 lb weight in my lap when doing bench dips. I always wanted big biceps. I would curl and curl like there was no tomorrow.
But ever since i started doing strictly pull ups, i've noticed significant gains in my biceps. I haven't done a curl in almost a year. I will agree that compound exercises are the way to go.
I used to do 10 sets of each exercise. I've now dropped it to 5 and can see that it is really working. Whenever I feel like i have hit a plateau I will take a few days off.

 

[z1ggy]

Good posts everybody. Would you say it is more beneficial to work a bicep/tricep compound day or a tricep/chest type of day? So lets say one day you do pull ups for bi's and back. Would you do dips/ bench dips, or something like rows to continue the back/bi work out? Also..I do enjoy doing hang cleans and push press. Is it best to do something like 3X8 or a 5X5?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: z1ggy
Good posts everybody. Would you say it is more beneficial to work a bicep/tricep compound day or a tricep/chest type of day? So lets say one day you do pull ups for bi's and back. Would you do dips/ bench dips, or something like rows to continue the back/bi work out? Also..I do enjoy doing hang cleans and push press. Is it best to do something like 3X8 or a 5X5?

Same questions as I asked to the poster of this thread:

What are your goals? Adding mass? Strength? Training for a sport?

What is your lifting experience? The relevant question here is if you are able to add weight to your core lifts (especially squat) linearly - that is, every workout - or if you've progressed far enough with weightlifting where you can only go up in weight every few workouts? The actual amount of weight your lift is also relevant (see the weightlifting standards), but in general, if you can do a linear progression, you'd be wasting your time doing anything else.

What routine are you doing? Where did you get it from? Did you come up with it yourself? Do you really think you have enough expertise to do that?

 

[KoolDrew]

Originally posted by: z1ggy
Good posts everybody. Would you say it is more beneficial to work a bicep/tricep compound day or a tricep/chest type of day? So lets say one day you do pull ups for bi's and back. Would you do dips/ bench dips, or something like rows to continue the back/bi work out? Also..I do enjoy doing hang cleans and push press. Is it best to do something like 3X8 or a 5X5?

A push/pull type schedule can be just as effective as an upper/lower one. It all depends on how well everything is incorporated.

 

[z1ggy]

my goals are mostly to get stronger, im not THAT interested in getting big. I already weigh 195 and im 5'10, I have a pretty solid build, and I'm really not fat. I obviously would liek to get rid of the gut, but I feel like eating healthier and doing more running will help me in that area. I am mostly wanting to get stronger in my arms and chest area.My bench has been stuck on 185 as my max for quite some time. I have come up with my routine on my own, but it stems from my years playing high school football. I don't think I am strong enough for as much as I weigh, being a bigger guy for my height.

 

[KingGheedora]

Just curious, how long have you been doing your current routine, and what exactly does it consist of? For someone who's 5'10 and 185lbs, I would think you'd be benching more. I was able to bench 225 when I weighed 170lbs (5'10 also), but maybe you have more fat and less muscle than I did at that time.

At the time I was doing one day a week each for chest, arms, legs, back, shoulders. And I would typically do 3 sets of 8-10, usually to failure on the last couple of reps on the 2nd & 3rd sets. I don't really lift anymore though, and a lot of people here disagree with that type of routine being optimal but that's what my friends who were big in college taught me at the time.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: z1ggy
my goals are mostly to get stronger, im not THAT interested in getting big. I already weigh 195 and im 5'10, I have a pretty solid build, and I'm really not fat. I obviously would liek to get rid of the gut, but I feel like eating healthier and doing more running will help me in that area. I am mostly wanting to get stronger in my arms and chest area.My bench has been stuck on 185 as my max for quite some time. I have come up with my routine on my own, but it stems from my years playing high school football. I don't think I am strong enough for as much as I weigh, being a bigger guy for my height.

If your goal is to get stronger, you should be on a strength training routine. It's still not clear what level of weight lifting you're at (as determined by your ability to follow a linear progression, as well where you are in the weightlifting standards), but judging by the fact that you are focused primarily on arms and chest, you are most likely a beginner. This is compounded from the fact that you are building your routine based on what you learned in high school football, as most football strength training programs are notoriously bad. There are the occasional good ones, but they are rare. All this means that you are probably in no position to design your own routine. I don't mean this as an insult, but there are MANY subtleties to weight training and there's just no reason for the average person to know them.

For example, being focused on just your "beach muscles" is not a good idea. As a matter of strength, the arms and chest are two of the least important body parts in terms of real world performance. In just about every activity where strength matters - sports, fighting, carrying heavy furniture, etc - the strength of your legs & back is FAR more important. Moreover, since the largest muscles in your body are in your back and legs, training them tends to produce the biggest hormonal effects. By ignoring those body parts, you're making your training less effective/efficient. Finally, focusing on just a couple parts of the body will usually lead to muscle imbalances. Not only would you look strange with a big upper body and stick legs (as well as huge anterior shoulders, but nothing in the posterior), but muscle imbalances very often lead to injuries.

Other examples of things the typical beginner doesn't think about is how much volume is appropriate, full body vs. split routines, how many sets/reps are appropriate for their goals, which exercises are going to be most effective, and so on. In short, if you really want to get strong in a healthy & effective manner, you should work your entire body using a beginner strength training routine designed by professionals. One of the most effective routines of this sort is the one described in Starting Strength. The book explains not only a notoriously effective routine, it also discusses why you should do strength training, why you should use free weights, which exercises are the most effective and extremely detailed descriptions & pictures of how to do each lift. It's worth the money no matter what routine you do.

You can preview some of the content of the book on The Starting Strength Wiki. There's also a lot of good content on the Stronglifts website, including the stronglifts 5x5 routine. It's quite similar to Starting Strength and also a great choice for beginners.

 

[Chunkee]

Originally posted by: Eomer of Aldburg
I work my triceps and biceps individually on different days. I tend to focus on one muscle group per day and destroy them. Here is what I do for my triceps:

Weighted Dips (+60lbs) 3 sets x 7-8 Reps (after 3rd set loose the weight and continue with just body-weight until burned out)
Tricep cable Push down with the rope 3 sets X 8-9 Reps with about 55lbs (Form over weight, keep the triceps right in close to your body)
Dumbbell Tricep overhead extension 3 sets x 10-12 Reps I do 60lbs. I would do more but it sometimes gives me elbo pain so I stick with higher rep and lower weight.
Cable Incline Triceps Extension 2 sets x 6-7 reps around 57.1lbs (weird increments on that machine) Drop set each set of the weight 2 times so 1 rep has 7 +7 +7 =21 reps for that one set.

Biceps:

Alternating Dumbbell Curls 3 sets x 6-7 reps, I do 45lbs each hand
EZ curl preacher curl close grip 3 sets 7-9 reps, 2 x 25lbs + 25lb bar = 75lbs.
Standing Cable curl with wide grip. 2 sets 7-8 reps . Drop set each set twice so it looks like 8 + 8 +8 or 7 +7+7 reps
Incline dumbbell curl 3 sets x 6-7 reps, 30lbs
Lastly Reverse barbell curl 3 sets x 6-9 reps 40lbs straight bar.

Bill Davey is one of my favorite bodybuilders and these are some of his tips. Depending on your goal, mine is building muscle not toning so I emphasize Going very heavy and making sure that those 6-9 reps take everything out of you but keeping the form flawless. Hopefully this helps

1. GO HEAVY----- OR GO HOME.
2. CHANGE YOUR WORKOUT EVERY THREE WEEKS.
3. TRAIN ONE MUSCLE GROUP PER SESSION.
4. MAKE EVERY REP OF EVERY SET COUNT.
5. WHEN YOU THINK YOU CAN'T TO ANY MORE REPS IN A SET, DO TWO MORE.
6. KEEP WEIGHT TRAINING SESSIONS TO ONE HOUR MAXIMUM.
7. ALLOW FIVE TO SEVEN DAYS BEFORE TRAINING MUSCLE GROUP AGAIN.
8. LEARN EACH MUSCLE GROUP'S RANGE OF MOTION -- AND WORK THAT MUSCLE THROUGH THAT FULL RANGE OF MOTION.
9. STRIVE TO DEVELOP NEUROMUSCULAR CONTROL.
10. DON'T NEGLECT SPECIFIC ROTATOR CUFF EXERCISES.

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT>>>EXTREMEMLEY

 

[SociallyChallenged]

Originally posted by: Chunkee

Originally posted by: Eomer of Aldburg
I work my triceps and biceps individually on different days. I tend to focus on one muscle group per day and destroy them. Here is what I do for my triceps:

Weighted Dips (+60lbs) 3 sets x 7-8 Reps (after 3rd set loose the weight and continue with just body-weight until burned out)
Tricep cable Push down with the rope 3 sets X 8-9 Reps with about 55lbs (Form over weight, keep the triceps right in close to your body)
Dumbbell Tricep overhead extension 3 sets x 10-12 Reps I do 60lbs. I would do more but it sometimes gives me elbo pain so I stick with higher rep and lower weight.
Cable Incline Triceps Extension 2 sets x 6-7 reps around 57.1lbs (weird increments on that machine) Drop set each set of the weight 2 times so 1 rep has 7 +7 +7 =21 reps for that one set.

Biceps:

Alternating Dumbbell Curls 3 sets x 6-7 reps, I do 45lbs each hand
EZ curl preacher curl close grip 3 sets 7-9 reps, 2 x 25lbs + 25lb bar = 75lbs.
Standing Cable curl with wide grip. 2 sets 7-8 reps . Drop set each set twice so it looks like 8 + 8 +8 or 7 +7+7 reps
Incline dumbbell curl 3 sets x 6-7 reps, 30lbs
Lastly Reverse barbell curl 3 sets x 6-9 reps 40lbs straight bar.

Bill Davey is one of my favorite bodybuilders and these are some of his tips. Depending on your goal, mine is building muscle not toning so I emphasize Going very heavy and making sure that those 6-9 reps take everything out of you but keeping the form flawless. Hopefully this helps

1. GO HEAVY----- OR GO HOME.
2. CHANGE YOUR WORKOUT EVERY THREE WEEKS.
3. TRAIN ONE MUSCLE GROUP PER SESSION.
4. MAKE EVERY REP OF EVERY SET COUNT.
5. WHEN YOU THINK YOU CAN'T TO ANY MORE REPS IN A SET, DO TWO MORE.
6. KEEP WEIGHT TRAINING SESSIONS TO ONE HOUR MAXIMUM.
7. ALLOW FIVE TO SEVEN DAYS BEFORE TRAINING MUSCLE GROUP AGAIN.
8. LEARN EACH MUSCLE GROUP'S RANGE OF MOTION -- AND WORK THAT MUSCLE THROUGH THAT FULL RANGE OF MOTION.
9. STRIVE TO DEVELOP NEUROMUSCULAR CONTROL.
10. DON'T NEGLECT SPECIFIC ROTATOR CUFF EXERCISES.

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT>>>EXTREMEMLEY

Clearly, but most of the other parts of that 10 item list are trash. Rotator cuff exercises aren't quite necessary if you do a wide array of exercises for your back unless you have a preexisting injury or frontal imbalance. Explicity exercises isolating the rotator cuffs are not necessary if you make sure to take care of your entire body equally.

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: SociallyChallenged

Originally posted by: Chunkee

Originally posted by: Eomer of Aldburg
I work my triceps and biceps individually on different days. I tend to focus on one muscle group per day and destroy them. Here is what I do for my triceps:

Weighted Dips (+60lbs) 3 sets x 7-8 Reps (after 3rd set loose the weight and continue with just body-weight until burned out)
Tricep cable Push down with the rope 3 sets X 8-9 Reps with about 55lbs (Form over weight, keep the triceps right in close to your body)
Dumbbell Tricep overhead extension 3 sets x 10-12 Reps I do 60lbs. I would do more but it sometimes gives me elbo pain so I stick with higher rep and lower weight.
Cable Incline Triceps Extension 2 sets x 6-7 reps around 57.1lbs (weird increments on that machine) Drop set each set of the weight 2 times so 1 rep has 7 +7 +7 =21 reps for that one set.

Biceps:

Alternating Dumbbell Curls 3 sets x 6-7 reps, I do 45lbs each hand
EZ curl preacher curl close grip 3 sets 7-9 reps, 2 x 25lbs + 25lb bar = 75lbs.
Standing Cable curl with wide grip. 2 sets 7-8 reps . Drop set each set twice so it looks like 8 + 8 +8 or 7 +7+7 reps
Incline dumbbell curl 3 sets x 6-7 reps, 30lbs
Lastly Reverse barbell curl 3 sets x 6-9 reps 40lbs straight bar.

Bill Davey is one of my favorite bodybuilders and these are some of his tips. Depending on your goal, mine is building muscle not toning so I emphasize Going very heavy and making sure that those 6-9 reps take everything out of you but keeping the form flawless. Hopefully this helps

1. GO HEAVY----- OR GO HOME.
2. CHANGE YOUR WORKOUT EVERY THREE WEEKS.
3. TRAIN ONE MUSCLE GROUP PER SESSION.
4. MAKE EVERY REP OF EVERY SET COUNT.
5. WHEN YOU THINK YOU CAN'T TO ANY MORE REPS IN A SET, DO TWO MORE.
6. KEEP WEIGHT TRAINING SESSIONS TO ONE HOUR MAXIMUM.
7. ALLOW FIVE TO SEVEN DAYS BEFORE TRAINING MUSCLE GROUP AGAIN.
8. LEARN EACH MUSCLE GROUP'S RANGE OF MOTION -- AND WORK THAT MUSCLE THROUGH THAT FULL RANGE OF MOTION.
9. STRIVE TO DEVELOP NEUROMUSCULAR CONTROL.
10. DON'T NEGLECT SPECIFIC ROTATOR CUFF EXERCISES.

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT>>>EXTREMEMLEY

Clearly, but most of the other parts of that 10 item list are trash. Rotator cuff exercises aren't quite necessary if you do a wide array of exercises for your back unless you have a preexisting injury or frontal imbalance. Explicity exercises isolating the rotator cuffs are not necessary if you make sure to take care of your entire body equally.

I gotta agree with SC. Many of those 10 points from Bill Davey do NOT apply to the average weight lifter, especially beginners. For example, there is no reason to change your workout every three weeks. If you're an advanced lifter, and require all sorts of periodization to continue making progress, sure. But if you're just starting out, you need to keep repeating the same thing till you get damn good at it. Training one muscle group per session and waiting 5-7 days before training it again is wasteful for just about everyone. Unless you are doing absurdly heavy weights, you can usually hit the same muscle groups 2-3 times per week and recover plenty in between. Doing it any less, especially as a beginner/intermediate, would only slow your progress. And yes, rotator cuff exercises are only necessary if you already have an injury/imbalance. If you have no pre-existing conditions and do a routine that properly balances motions that push forward (e.g. bench press), motions that pull back (e.g. rows and pull-ups), and motions that push up (e.g. OH press), your rotator cuff will develop evenly and you won't have any issues. Of course, most bodybuilders are obsessed with their chest, so they do WAY more bench press than all the other exercises and consequently have rotator cuff issues and then write stupid 10 point lists that apply mostly to themselves.

 

[z1ggy]

So does anyone have a good push/pull routine they use? Examples like.. using pull ups..push ups..squats..hang cleans.. or push press. ANy other good lifts that achieve max results? I realize I am not really strong for my weight.. but hey..got to start somewhere right?

 

[brikis98]

Originally posted by: z1ggy
So does anyone have a good push/pull routine they use? Examples like.. using pull ups..push ups..squats..hang cleans.. or push press. ANy other good lifts that achieve max results? I realize I am not really strong for my weight.. but hey..got to start somewhere right?

As I wrote in my earlier reply, if you want to get stronger, you'll probably want to try Starting Strength or Stronglifts 5x5. If for some reason you really want a push/pull split, you can try this push/pull, upper/lower split.