You thought NPR was fluffy before?? Now they claim plants have minds

[Throckmorton]

Consciousness is a philosophical debate. One can argue that a hydrogen atom has consciousness, it knows everything it needs to function as a hydrogen atom and does so quite flawlessly. Some also believe our consciousness is just the collective of individual pieces that form us. Not sure how far down the hole I'm willing to go yet, but I do believe everything has some level of consciousness and it's really arbitrary to compare them since they're so vastly different in the way they interact with the universe around them.



On any level you or I are capable of understanding so far, yes, that doesn't mean they don't have a consciousness.

Consciousness is a product of the thought processes of a physical brain. Creatures with different levels of intelligence have different degrees of consciousness. A plant has none because a plant has no brain whatsoever or even a nervous system. Even if consciousness had some nonphysical property in addition to the electronic functioning of the brain, plants don't have the brain to begin with.

 

[sandorski]

I always go All In, then Draw 4.

 

[bfdd]

Consciousness is a product of the thought processes of a physical brain. Creatures with different levels of intelligence have different degrees of consciousness. A plant has none because a plant has no brain whatsoever or even a nervous system. Even if consciousness had some nonphysical property in addition to the electronic functioning of the brain, plants don't have the brain to begin with.

Says you. Can you prove a hydrogen atom doesn't have the consciousness capable of functioning as a hydrogen atom? no you cannot, yet we know hydrogen atoms function in certain ways and that they do it all on their own. You are to closed minded which makes you incapable of grasping this concept, you're only able to view the world through our limited senses and perception.

 

[Throckmorton]

Says you. Can you prove a hydrogen atom doesn't have the consciousness capable of functioning as a hydrogen atom? no you cannot, yet we know hydrogen atoms function in certain ways and that they do it all on their own. You are to closed minded which makes you incapable of grasping this concept, you're only able to view the world through our limited senses and perception.

You can't just make up crap and say "It might be true!"

 

[bfdd]

You can't just make up crap and say "It might be true!"

Yes I am making up the fact hydrogen atoms, without any influence from outside sources, are capable of acting the way hydrogen atoms do. It's not the same level of consciousness we have, obviously, it's not even comparable to that of a vertebrates or even a plants, but that doesn't mean it isn't conscious. Stop limiting yourself to your own abilities to perceive the universe around you and accept that our physical bodies are quite limiting.

PS I didn't make this shit up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hylozoism is just one of many philosophies.

 

[Throckmorton]

Yes I am making up the fact hydrogen atoms, without any influence from outside sources, are capable of acting the way hydrogen atoms do. It's not the same level of consciousness we have, obviously, it's not even comparable to that of a vertebrates or even a plants, but that doesn't mean it isn't conscious. Stop limiting yourself to your own abilities to perceive the universe around you and accept that our physical bodies are quite limiting.

No, you're making up the idea that there could be a consciousness causing a hydrogen atom to be a hydrogen atom.

 

[bfdd]

No, you're making up the idea that there could be a consciousness causing a hydrogen atom to be a hydrogen atom.

Virtual photons, you know a particle which doesn't actually exist in our perception of the universe, have been actualized, as in brought into existence of our perception simply by transferring energy into them. How did they know to exist when the absence of their existence is all that consciousness in the form you know holds?

 

[werepossum]

No, you're making up the idea that there could be a consciousness causing a hydrogen atom to be a hydrogen atom.

Actually plants do have a sort of nervous system. For example, when a plant detects damage, or allelochemicals from a competitor, those signals are passed through an electrochemical process reasonably analogous to our own nervous system to the parts of the plant that manufacture its own allelochemicals (for chemical warfare) or, in some cases, to the parts of the plant that cause actual physical reactions. Not a mind in the sense we usually connote the word, but perhaps a mind in the sense that a lower order animal might have a mind.

I see also that you've taken this as an opportunity to bash FoxNews. Obsession isn't healthy, dude, let it go. As for the blogger, there is no wisdom to be found on blogs. Ever.

 

[bfdd]

Actually plants do have a sort of nervous system. For example, when a plant detects damage, or allelochemicals from a competitor, those signals are passed through an electrochemical process reasonably analogous to our own nervous system to the parts of the plant that manufacture its own allelochemicals (for chemical warfare) or, in some cases, to the parts of the plant that cause actual physical reactions. Not a mind in the sense we usually connote the word, but perhaps a mind in the sense that a lower order animal might have a mind.

I see also that you've taken this as an opportunity to bash FoxNews. Obsession isn't healthy, dude, let it go. As for the blogger, there is no wisdom to be found on blogs. Ever.

He wouldn't know because he doesn't garden. I am currently dealing with a sick and stressed plant. The PH keeps tanking( I grow hydroponically) and I can tell it wants to hold on because it's doing its best to keep the flowers alive and healthy. Been a struggle though, I'm hoping we can get her through this week and she should recover to produce good sized flowers.

 

[woolfe9999]

He wouldn't know because he doesn't garden. I am currently dealing with a sick and stressed plant. The PH keeps tanking( I grow hydroponically) and I can tell it wants to hold on because it's doing its best to keep the flowers alive and healthy. Been a struggle though, I'm hoping we can get her through this week and she should recover to produce good sized flowers.

LOL, let us know how those flowers work out for you. Is that indica or sativa?

 

[bfdd]

LOL, let us know how those flowers work out for you. Is that indica or sativa?

this one is of the kush variety, so indica

 

[woolfe9999]

this one is of the kush variety, so indica

Ah, I tried "master Kush" recently. Amazing stuff.

 

[werepossum]

He wouldn't know because he doesn't garden. I am currently dealing with a sick and stressed plant. The PH keeps tanking( I grow hydroponically) and I can tell it wants to hold on because it's doing its best to keep the flowers alive and healthy. Been a struggle though, I'm hoping we can get her through this week and she should recover to produce good sized flowers.

If your water PH is tanking you need to provide some buffering.

 

[bfdd]

LOL Now why am I getting the idea that you won't be running down to the local community college for a consultation?

If your water PH is tanking you need to provide some buffering.

There's enough information on the net and enough people around where I live I was able to figure it out. I believe it's light bleeding ion to the roots and stressing from over trimming.

but in all honesty we shouldn't be talking about this, it's quite off topic and I'm sure the mods don't appreciate it which is why i was trying to be as discrete as possible in my original post.

 

[woolfe9999]

Fine. Thought it was more interesting than debating whether or not plants have "consciousness." Honestly I can't think of a less important topic to devote bandwidth to. I guess it's a slow day on P&N.

 

[werepossum]

There's enough information on the net and enough people around where I live I was able to figure it out. I believe it's light bleeding ion to the roots and stressing from over trimming.

but in all honesty we shouldn't be talking about this, it's quite off topic and I'm sure the mods don't appreciate it which is why i was trying to be as discrete as possible in my original post.

LOL I'll edit mine if you edit yours. Um, I mean mine in yours.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Consciousness is a product of the thought processes of a physical brain.

I see that someone has read Bright Air, Brilliant Fire (good book for the first-half anyway).

Anyway, NPR is not the first to host a colorful pseudo-scientist and fail to properly debunk him. NPR is so far above the likes of The Conspiracy Channel (formerly known as The Hitler Channel) that it is not even funny...

I fail to find anything to rage about here...

 

[bfdd]

Fine. Thought it was more interesting than debating whether or not plants have "consciousness." Honestly I can't think of a less important topic to devote bandwidth to. I guess it's a slow day on P&N.

Well we can stay on that topic I really don't mind, I do agree it is a rather unimportant topic to devote so much bandwidth too. These are the things I normally think about when not doing important things like trying to live lols.

LOL I'll edit mine if you edit yours. Um, I mean mine in yours.

Ah I don't care that much 🙂

 

[Triumph]

This thread is crap.

 

[bfdd]

This thread is crap.

I disagree, we could have gone down a decent philosophical debate. Just didn't happen, oh well. Not everyone cares enough to think about such things.

 

[Perknose]

On the bright side, a lot of the commenters on the Facebook post are just as annoyed as I am.

Facebook, you say? Well, in that case! :hmm:

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

No, you're making up the idea that there could be a consciousness causing a hydrogen atom to be a hydrogen atom.

No, actually panpyschism is an idea that has been discussed and considered for a long time.

The real problem with the so-called "science" of consciousness is solipsism. You can't know that other people are conscious any more than you can know that a plant isn't conscious.

 

[davmat787]

Actually plants do have a sort of nervous system. For example, when a plant detects damage, or allelochemicals from a competitor, those signals are passed through an electrochemical process reasonably analogous to our own nervous system to the parts of the plant that manufacture its own allelochemicals (for chemical warfare) or, in some cases, to the parts of the plant that cause actual physical reactions. Not a mind in the sense we usually connote the word, but perhaps a mind in the sense that a lower order animal might have a mind.

I see also that you've taken this as an opportunity to bash FoxNews. Obsession isn't healthy, dude, let it go. As for the blogger, there is no wisdom to be found on blogs. Ever.

I watched a show on NatGeo the other night, showing a University that trains a certain type of wasp to find buried cadavers. Evidently their smell is way more sensitive than a dog even. Anyway, they smell a distress pheremone (don't recall the exact substance) emitted by plants when a caterpillar starts to eat it. The wasp then lays an egg in the caterpillar.

Point being, the plant had a reaction to when the insect started to eat the leaf, emitting some sort of distress chemical the wasp could home in on. Does not make a plant conscious or sentient of course, but very interesting none the less.

 

[bfdd]

I watched a show on NatGeo the other night, showing a University that trains a certain type of wasp to find buried cadavers. Evidently their smell is way more sensitive than a dog even. Anyway, they smell a distress pheremone (don't recall the exact substance) emitted by plants when a caterpillar starts to eat it. The wasp then lays an egg in the caterpillar.

Point being, the plant had a reaction to when the insect started to eat the leaf, emitting some sort of distress chemical the wasp could home in on. Does not make a plant conscience of course, but very interesting none the less.

conscience is different than consciousness, but I get what you mean and I agree to an extent. it doesn't make them conscious in the same form we are conscious, but they are conscious to the extent their form allows.

 

[davmat787]

conscience is different than consciousness, but I get what you mean and I agree to an extent. it doesn't make them conscious in the same form we are conscious, but they are conscious to the extent their form allows.

Thanks, fixed that spelling (?) mistake.