"you gave me pop-ups".

[VirtualLarry]

Neighbor brought me a PC, it runs Vista. After booting, left at a blank screen with mouse cursor. No desktop.

Was able to get to desktop, by C-A-D, Task Manager, kill EXPLORER.EXE, re-start same.

Of course, that's no long-term solution.

Owner said they were playing with their AV's startup manager feature, and disabled a few things that they thought weren't necessary.

System had some toolbars installed. Ran Malwarebytes, 2900 items flagged. Quarantined, rebooted, same issue.

So I talked the owner into re-formatting, sort of. With a RAM upgrade, and an SSD.

Only charged him a nominal price for the DDR2 and the SSD. Didn't charge him for the re-format labor, because during all these major snowstorms we had in the Northeast, he shoveled out my building's step / walk, among others. I think my listed price for a re-format is $80.

So yesterday, he picks up the PC. I power it up for him, show him how quickly it boots with the SSD, and at that time, it had 6GB of RAM, and I bounced the idea of putting a full 8GB in, and he went for that. So I shut it down, put in the other 2x2GB kit of DDR2, after removing the 2x1GB. Then I boot it back up, checked that Vista recognized all 8GB (was showing 7.99GB), and then we tried to download Chrome for him at my place.

Well, after going to www.google.com/chrome , and having him click through the agreement, it wouldn't download. I didn't figure it out until the next day, that the reason it wasn't downloading, was because, by habit, I blocked google cookies.

So I give him back his upgraded and newly-reformatted PC to take home, and tell him to try to download Chrome at his place.

Fast-forward to today. I see him outside, and he tells me that his PC was full of pop-ups, and blamed me.

I asked him what he had installed after he got the system. He initially said "nothing". I then asked if he had tried to install any toolbars off of his HDD. He said no.

Then he said he installed Chome and got the icon installed. He said he searched for Chrome using Firefox, and found a link that said "free download", and installed it. He seemed proud of himself, until I told him he had been had, and downloaded a "free" malware-infected Chrome installer.

I'm supposed to look at it in a few days, and do a re-format again.

I'm thinking of charging him for it this time, since he went and downloaded the "wrong" Chrome, that caused all of the pop-ups.

But it's (indirectly) my fault, for the official Chrome not downloading. (Google could have designed their web site so that it didn't require a persistent cookie just to download their browser, so it's not entirely my fault either.)

I had realized why Chrome wouldn't download, and left him a message about it, and to call me back. But he went off trying to download it from a "free download" link, rather than call me back, so I could explain how to re-install Google cookies.

Oh yeah, before I forget, his old install had Conduit installed too. He asked me to get rid of that.

So he's kind of a malware-magnet. Not horrible, but conduit and toolbars and stuff.

So should I charge him for the second re-format?

 

[Charlie98]

I'd comp him the second reformat. It wasn't right when it went out the door and, obviously, IT isn't his strong point (which is why he's bringing the computer to you in the first place.) It should have been right before you gave it back to him.

You might want to set down with him and talk about what NOT to click on when he's browsing, (see? This is what happens!) and maybe teach him how to run AV on a schedule to try to keep all the bad stuff under control.

 

[Ketchup]

It's a neighbor. Don't know that it's worth it really. He already thinks you did it, so charging him might just make things worse.

Tell him to get an AV like Kaspersky (it's add-on shows you when sites are not trusted) and install ABE (if it's available with Chrome), as it doesn't allow some adds like ABP does.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'd comp him the second reformat. It wasn't right when it went out the door and, obviously, IT isn't his strong point (which is why he's bringing the computer to you in the first place.) It should have been right before you gave it back to him.

You might want to set down with him and talk about what NOT to click on when he's browsing, (see? This is what happens!) and maybe teach him how to run AV on a schedule to try to keep all the bad stuff under control.

If by "not right", you mean that I blocked (IMHO, intrusive) Google cookies, then I guess.

 

[Charlie98]

If by "not right", you mean that I blocked (IMHO, intrusive) Google cookies, then I guess.

What I meant is it was not set up for him to plop down and start using it... he had to go in and download and install something first. I'm not saying that he wouldn't have eventually wadded it up with popups on his own, but when you weren't able to reinstall Chrome, you should have kept it until you figured out why.

But it's (indirectly) my fault, for the official Chrome not downloading.

I'm not trying to bust on you, Larry, I'm just saying... make it right this time.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

I wouldn't charge him (it honestly won't take tht long to fix, right?) but show him what not to click, and install ad block, web of trust, and do not track me. They block most all ads, should keep him away from sketchy websites, and help block cookies like you want.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I wouldn't charge him (it honestly won't take tht long to fix, right?)

It took nearly four hours to install Vista HP 64-bit SP2 off of a DVD, and then do the dreaded updates (~500MB worth). Even with an SSD, it was a slow process. Then you have to download and install the drivers from Dell. Another 45 minutes.

but show him what not to click, and install ad block, web of trust, and do not track me. They block most all ads, should keep him away from sketchy websites, and help block cookies like you want.

Will those work with Chrome? Firefox?

Interestingly enough, I first tried to install Waterfox, and apparently, it doesn't work on Vista 64-bit. Must not support Vista. I double-click the installer, and I don't even get a UAC prompt. It did that for both the 35.0.1 and 36.0 installers.

Edit: Let's not forget, 30 minutes on the phone with MS, to punch in numbers and read out numbers in order to activate.

 

[Zorander]

Surely you can install from a USB installer to shave some time off the OS install?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Surely you can install from a USB installer to shave some time off the OS install?

That's hardly going to help. It's the 500MB of updates that are the killer. Pins on of his two CPU cores at 100% (1.8Ghz C2D).

I guess I'll re-format it again for him, but this time... I'm going to explicitly tell him if he needs another re-format, it will be $100 a pop.

Edit: Recall that this fellow's original Vista install had 2900 items flagged by Malwarebytes. Normally, I see maybe 15-20, or even 100-200 on a bad infection. But 2900?

Edit: Web of Trust, good idea. Def. going to see about installing that on there for him. I'll admit, I don't have a lot of knowledge of good, trusted, "Nannyware", since I don't use any. (Being able to tell if a site is bad or not, for the most part, myself.)

Anyone have any other suggestions, along that line?

 

[vailr]

his old install had Conduit installed too. He asked me to get rid of that.

So he's kind of a malware-magnet. Not horrible, but conduit and toolbars and stuff.

Download from MajorGeeks:
Junkware Removal Tool
http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/junkware_removal_tool.htm

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Oh, yes 4 hours is a while. Those three extensions do work on chrome. I can't tell about Firefox as I don't use it.

 

[Burpo]

It took nearly four hours to install Vista HP 64-bit SP2 off of a DVD, and then do the dreaded updates (~500MB worth). Even with an SSD, it was a slow process. Then you have to download and install the drivers from Dell. Another 45 minutes.

But it's (indirectly) my fault, for the official Chrome not downloading. (Google could have designed their web site so that it didn't require a persistent cookie just to download their browser, so it's not entirely my fault either.)

Yes, it's entirely your fault, as you know these things & he doesn't. That's why he brought it to you. Yet you let him leave with an unfinished PC and allowed HIM to finish/muck it up..
Seriously? You think you have to format & start over because of some Malware?
Restore it to where it was before it left your shop. Clean it & install the browser.. Done..

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yes, it's entirely your fault, as you know these things & he doesn't. That's why he brought it to you. Yet you let him leave with an unfinished PC and allowed HIM to finish/muck it up..

It's not like he wasn't able to download Chrome the first time, before I even got to the PC. I even showed him where to go, when he and the PC were at my place. Either way, though, I'm not going to agree to Chrome's EULA just to download it. (Firefox doesn't have a EULA, how's that for freedom!) I don't put Chrome on normally when I re-format. If he wants it, he can put it on.

Edit: I honestly consider both Google Chrome and Google cookies to be spyware. I don't install spyware on a customer's system, even if they want it.

Seriously? You think you have to format & start over because of some Malware?
Restore it to where it was before it left your shop. Clean it & install the browser.. Done..

I just figured it would be faster, and easier, even if it takes longer. Manually cleaning every last bit of malware off, can take quite a bit longer than a re-format, as I'm sure that you are aware. It's not as simple as running Malwarebytes and handing it back to him.

Edit: Would you be taking the same attitude with me, that it was all my fault, if, after he got the PC back, decided that he needed a "free video converter", and went and downloaded a malware-laden one? Because I didn't limit him to a limited-user account, and password the admin account, effectively locking him out of installing software on his own computer?

Because I've tried that route (parental controls and a limited-user account) with a different client, and once they got their PC back, they completely undid it.

 

[biostud]

What about creating a image/recovery for him.

 

[corkyg]

Agree with Biostud. Seems like your neighbor will always be there. Why not get a spare, inexpensive HDD and clone the properly installed OS with updates. Then when he screwsthe kitty, all you need do is clone your backup HDD to his whatever. All updates would then be included.

BTW, I agree with your assessment of Chrome.

 

[silicon]

Neighbor brought me a PC, it runs Vista. After booting, left at a blank screen with mouse cursor. No desktop.

Was able to get to desktop, by C-A-D, Task Manager, kill EXPLORER.EXE, re-start same.

Of course, that's no long-term solution.

Owner said they were playing with their AV's startup manager feature, and disabled a few things that they thought weren't necessary.

System had some toolbars installed. Ran Malwarebytes, 2900 items flagged. Quarantined, rebooted, same issue.

So I talked the owner into re-formatting, sort of. With a RAM upgrade, and an SSD.

Only charged him a nominal price for the DDR2 and the SSD. Didn't charge him for the re-format labor, because during all these major snowstorms we had in the Northeast, he shoveled out my building's step / walk, among others. I think my listed price for a re-format is $80.

So yesterday, he picks up the PC. I power it up for him, show him how quickly it boots with the SSD, and at that time, it had 6GB of RAM, and I bounced the idea of putting a full 8GB in, and he went for that. So I shut it down, put in the other 2x2GB kit of DDR2, after removing the 2x1GB. Then I boot it back up, checked that Vista recognized all 8GB (was showing 7.99GB), and then we tried to download Chrome for him at my place.

Well, after going to www.google.com/chrome , and having him click through the agreement, it wouldn't download. I didn't figure it out until the next day, that the reason it wasn't downloading, was because, by habit, I blocked google cookies.

So I give him back his upgraded and newly-reformatted PC to take home, and tell him to try to download Chrome at his place.

Fast-forward to today. I see him outside, and he tells me that his PC was full of pop-ups, and blamed me.

I asked him what he had installed after he got the system. He initially said "nothing". I then asked if he had tried to install any toolbars off of his HDD. He said no.

Then he said he installed Chome and got the icon installed. He said he searched for Chrome using Firefox, and found a link that said "free download", and installed it. He seemed proud of himself, until I told him he had been had, and downloaded a "free" malware-infected Chrome installer.

I'm supposed to look at it in a few days, and do a re-format again.

I'm thinking of charging him for it this time, since he went and downloaded the "wrong" Chrome, that caused all of the pop-ups.

But it's (indirectly) my fault, for the official Chrome not downloading. (Google could have designed their web site so that it didn't require a persistent cookie just to download their browser, so it's not entirely my fault either.)

I had realized why Chrome wouldn't download, and left him a message about it, and to call me back. But he went off trying to download it from a "free download" link, rather than call me back, so I could explain how to re-install Google cookies.

Oh yeah, before I forget, his old install had Conduit installed too. He asked me to get rid of that.

So he's kind of a malware-magnet. Not horrible, but conduit and toolbars and stuff.

So should I charge him for the second re-format?

the way i see it is you were trying to help a neighbor and to keep his/her costs low. But once the computer is out of eyesight he or she can do almost anything or install anything.

 

[Burpo]

I just figured it would be faster, and easier, even if it takes longer. Manually cleaning every last bit of malware off, can take quite a bit longer than a re-format, as I'm sure that you are aware. It's not as simple as running Malwarebytes and handing it back to him.

Edit: Would you be taking the same attitude with me, that it was all my fault, if, after he got the PC back, decided that he needed a "free video converter", and went and downloaded a malware-laden one? .

Do you read what you type? How can it be faster & take longer? smh

I don't have attitude. I have common sense..
Customer brought you his pc with a problem. You set about fixing it by reformatting/installing Vista on an SSD & adding RAM. Since he uses Chrome, that should have been done too.
By your own words
" the reason it wasn't downloading, was because by habit, I blocked google cookies."
"Edit: I honestly consider both Google Chrome and Google cookies to be spyware. I don't install spyware on a customer's system, even if they want it."

Customer isn't interested in your habits or which browser YOU prefer. He wants what he had, only better & faster, and hopefully better protected this time. You failed to deliver that.

Customer should probably seek help elsewhere, where unsolicited opinions don't supersede the services requested..

 

[Ketchup]

Do you read what you type? How can it be faster & take longer? smh

I don't have attitude. I have common sense..

You may not feel like you have an attitude, but your typing is coming across as if you do. This thread is about charging money for the service, not about the best method in this particular situation. It is up to VL how he wants to accomplish that.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Customer should probably seek help elsewhere, where unsolicited opinions don't supersede the services requested..

Considering I'm not getting paid for this work, I could care less if he went to someone else.

But I do think you have an attitude. You make it seem like I don't want to help him install Chrome at all. Which isn't true. I tried to help him download and install it when both he and the PC were at my place. It's just that he needs to agree to that mile-long EULA, not me.

I think Google's policies are draconian, and I'm not going to personally put myself in harm's way, just because someone wants some software installed, that they could easily do themselves.

 

[Charlie98]

Considering I'm not getting paid for this work, I could care less if he went to someone else.

But I do think you have an attitude. You make it seem like I don't want to help him install Chrome at all. Which isn't true. I tried to help him download and install it when both he and the PC were at my place. It's just that he needs to agree to that mile-long EULA, not me.

I think Google's policies are draconian, and I'm not going to personally put myself in harm's way, just because someone wants some software installed, that they could easily do themselves.

You took money from him, did you not? You tried to install Chrome for him, so, de facto, that last paragraph above is not true.

As a professional, the burden of the finished product is on you. You sent a product out incomplete, the customer messed it up trying to right it... you are liable whether or not you charged him for it or not. By laying hands on it and therefor agreeing to work on it, you accepted this responsibility.

Fix the man's computer.

 

[Burpo]

Bingo! Glad someone sees it..

 

[VirtualLarry]

You took money from him, did you not? You tried to install Chrome for him, so, de facto, that last paragraph above is not true.

As a professional, the burden of the finished product is on you. You sent a product out incomplete, the customer messed it up trying to right it... you are liable whether or not you charged him for it or not. By laying hands on it and therefor agreeing to work on it, you accepted this responsibility.

Fix the man's computer.

I already said I was going to:

I guess I'll re-format it again for him, but this time... I'm going to explicitly tell him if he needs another re-format, it will be $100 a pop.

And no, I didn't try to install Chrome for him, I was attempting to help him install it himself. Again, I'm not agreeing to Google's EULA for him.

Edit: I should note that my "policy" on re-formats, is, they get the OS installed, they get the Windows Updates, they get drivers installed for as much hardware as the drivers are available on the internet somewhere, they get Waterfox or Firefox, Flash Player, and whatever other free accessories I decide to put on there, like CPU-Z and HDTune Free. Plus Windows Activation if necessary.

Application installation is extra.

 

[Charlie98]

And no, I didn't try to install Chrome for him, I was attempting to help him install it himself. Again, I'm not agreeing to Google's EULA for him.

You are splitting hairs, Larry.

...and for what it's worth:

I'm going to explicitly tell him if he needs another re-format, it will be $100 a pop.

...I wholeheartedly agree with that.

 

[Burpo]

Why would you re-format it? It doesn't have 2900+ objects on it this time. A simple restore to when it was at your shop is all that's needed. Run Malwarebytes, Chrome install & hand it back to him. 20-30 min. tops..

 

[VirtualLarry]

Why would you re-format it? It doesn't have 2900+ objects on it this time. A simple restore to when it was at your shop is all that's needed. Run Malwarebytes, Chrome install & hand it back to him. 20-30 min. tops..

I didn't image his computer, so I'm not sure what you are suggesting I restore back to.

Unless you are suggesting removing the SSD, and going back to his previously screwed-up install on the HDD? I did install Malwarebytes on that machine (before I put in the SSD), and did quarantine what it could, but it didn't get nearly everything.

Edit: You mean using System Restore? I've never had all that much luck with System Restore fixing problems. Plus, I thought best-practices say to delete sysrestore points, because malware can hide in them and get re-installed. Then again, some malware deletes sysrestore points too, so you have trouble getting rid of it.

Edit: thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll give system restore a shot.