"you gave me pop-ups".

[Burpo]

Yes, you did all that work already.. It was clean.. Just restore it to that point. No need to start over.

My daughter was just here for same type service. Her old Dell laptop was barely chuggin along with Vista. Too slow she said. I didn't even look at it, just popped in a 60gb SSD, threw Win7 on it, installed few apps, Chrome, Avira & set Windows Defender and sent her out the door in less than 2hrs.. Microsoft Updates will happen safely & without her intervention.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, all's well that ends well, I guess.

Went over there this afternoon, re-installed Vista HP 64-bit SP2, installed drivers from Dell, installed Firefox, helped him install Chrome, activated Windows (had to call, again), and then installed Avast, WOT, LibreOffice, Malwarebytes, and his printer drivers.

I told him to re-enable auto updates, and let it update overnight. (He does know how to do that.)

Edit: No, system restore didn't work. Or rather, it might have, but he had rebooted too many times since he had initially picked up the PC, so those restore points were lost.

 

[frozentundra123456]

You took money from him, did you not? You tried to install Chrome for him, so, de facto, that last paragraph above is not true.

As a professional, the burden of the finished product is on you. You sent a product out incomplete, the customer messed it up trying to right it... you are liable whether or not you charged him for it or not. By laying hands on it and therefor agreeing to work on it, you accepted this responsibility.

Fix the man's computer.

If you had not tried to install Chrome at all, I dont think you would be responsible, since OEM computers dont have chrome installed either, and the owner would of had to install it himself.

However, since you did try to install it unsuccessfully, you should have not let him take it until Chrome was installed properly. To me it is a close call, but you should reformat or remove the malware, and then install chrome for him.
I also think you would be justified in insisting he make a backup immediately after the new format, and make it clear that once the computer leaves your shop this time, you are not responsible for what happens.

Edit: You must have posted while I was typing. I think you did the right thing, and glad the problem is solved.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Oh yeah, just FYI, Vista's "Backup" tool in Control Panel is pretty useless. It's just a backup for your user files, it doesn't do a system image backup like Win7 does, that I could see.

 

[escrow4]

I'd charge him again. He broke it AGAIN. How many times will he pay up until he learns? Vista expires in 2017, I'd charge $100 and install 8.1. Maybe then he wouldn't figure out how to break it. :awe:

 

[DrDoug]

I didn't image his computer, so I'm not sure what you are suggesting I restore back to.

...

First, when I give a customer free work I treat it as if they have paid for it. If something goes wrong shortly after taking possession of their system then I take care of it, no questions asked, paid or free. I image every single system I set up and I keep the images handy to make for faster (and more profitable) recoveries (if need be) if/when the customer later muffs it up. When it comes to installations, I do everything I can to make that system ready to roll for the customer, all software is installed and configured for them and the service is priced accordingly. The only time I charge a separate price for software is for my business customers. Business software can be a whole 'nother nightmare and I charge for the level of pain inflicted on me (here's looking at you CareStream).

I want my customers happy and I go out of my way to make them that way. People like to say that bad news spreads faster than good news but in computers it's just not that way. People love to brag about "their computer guy" when their stuff runs great and their friends are having problems getting something taken care of. Happy computer customers are free advertising. I often give free work to my customers while bidding on a complete job because people like free stuff. If that free work I gave them screws up (for whatever reason), the last thing I am going to do is make them pay for it.

Aim for happy customers and let the small stuff slide, it's not worth it. You'll make more from them in the long run if you can keep them around as a customer.

No cursing in the technical forums please.

mfenn
General Hardware Moderator

 

[VirtualLarry]

If something goes wrong shortly after taking possession of their system then I take care of it, no questions asked, paid or free.

For the record, nothing "went wrong" after I took possession of the system. The customer went to a "free download" link, and got a malware-infested installer, after they got the system back.

I image every single system I set up and I keep the images handy to make for faster (and more profitable) recoveries (if need be) if/when the customer later muffs it up.

Well, if I did that, then I would have to raise my price for re-installs to cover the additional time and expense of imaging. What kind of storage do you use for the images? The only thing that comes to mind that is economical is DVD-Rs, but those take time to write. Buying a separate external HDD to keep for every customer seems expensive. And I'm not willing to commingle different customer's data on the same physical device.

Plus, if it's only a malware-removal, and they have existing personal data on their systems, then making an automatic image and keeping it around has privacy implications.

I'm not against imaging, but I charge for "backup", accordingly. I leave that option with the customer.

When it comes to installations, I do everything I can to make that system ready to roll for the customer, all software is installed and configured for them and the service is priced accordingly.

Likewise. I just don't agree to Google's 20-page EULA for my customers.
(Is there an OEM Chrome pre-installation version that doesn't require agreeing to their EULA, just to download and install it?)

If that free work I gave them screws up (for whatever reason), the last thing I am going to do is make them pay for it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to insinuate, but in no way did the work that I did "screw up". The customer downloaded and installed malware, because they are clueless, after they got the system back. Their old installation was filled with toolbars, and Malwarebytes flagged 2900 items. Their habits are not my responsibility. (Sure, I try to give them tips to keep them safe, but ultimately, it's up to the customer how they operate their computer. Some customers refuse to take responsibility for the day-to-day operation of their home PCs. Those are not the customers that I want to keep, because they are constantly blaming me for them clicking on one too many malware downloads or ads, and wanting free service to fix it, "because I built the PC", so in their mind, I am the one ultimately responsible, no matter their actions with the PC.)

Aim for happy customers and let the small stuff slide, it's not worth it. You'll make more from them in the long run if you can keep them around as a customer.

I've found that giving away free service, only brings more requests for free service, and customers that balk at paying for service.

Edited cursing embedded in quote.

mfenn
General Hardware Moderator

 

[VirtualLarry]

I'd charge him again. He broke it AGAIN. How many times will he pay up until he learns? Vista expires in 2017, I'd charge $100 and install 8.1. Maybe then he wouldn't figure out how to break it. :awe:

Well, I told him that if he needs another re-format, it's $80.

He actually did ask about Win8.1, but when I told him it was $100, he seemed dis-interested.

 

[Seba]

For the record, nothing "went wrong" after I took possession of the system. The customer went to a "free download" link, and got a malware-infested installer, after they got the system back.

It was your fault he did that:

Well, after going to www.google.com/chrome , and having him click through the agreement, it wouldn't download. I didn't figure it out until the next day, that the reason it wasn't downloading, was because, by habit, I blocked google cookies.

He wanted Chrome and your action made it impossible for him to install it from Google, hence he had to find alternative solutions.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Well, I told him that if he needs another re-format, it's $80.

He actually did ask about Win8.1, but when I told him it was $100, he seemed dis-interested.

Yo, Larry. I actually considered starting a new thread, and could still do so -- but I'm facing a parallel problem.

I don't know whether you perform these "services" as a sideline, or if it's your "bread and butter." I've often helped friends with their computers, and if I ask them for something to cover my time and labor, they get peeved. Once back in 2003, it took me several days but maybe 10 hours total) to clean a friend's system of a virus. Just asking for compensation was an uncomfortable moment.

My potential "customer" is different than yours -- who is a neighbor.

My car mechanic -- who owns his independent shop -- rightfully depends on the technology. They have schematics and databases of parts -- online or locally. It is essential.

His "IT/computer-supplier" is also an independent. He sold my mechanic friend two office systems -- likely based on the AM3+ platform. The stickers on the front of the cases say "AMD FX." He explained his problem as we were chatting after I paid my bill.

He would access a parts database online. He has a FIOS connection with ATT. As he would scroll the list, all the characters would streak into lines in the window. It would take up to 30 seconds (possibly more?) before the characters would reappear. He's using a Samsung Synchmaster HD monitor. He somehow thought the problem was the monitor, but -- no.

He'd been sold this AMD Gigabyte micro-ATX motherboard -- no graphics card but onboard graphics instead. A single stick of DDR3-1333 RAM. I think it might only be a 2GB module!! Onboard graphics shows 128MB of VRAM, but I can't even be sure if that's "real" or part of the system RAM. I think he was sold a bill of goods totally inadequate to the business needs.

Either my friend was too parsimonious about his office PC investment, or he'd been sold something that is inadequate. I've got a few used graphics cards of which I could sell him one for a song. He'll have to buy the RAM; it'll have to be tested on a weekend when the shop is closed.

Or -- he can go back to his IT guy and possibly get ripped off. If I involve myself in this, though, I will suffer the consequences. I NEED a car mechanic I can TRUST. For my time, I'd just as soon abjure any charges. It's likely to improve the business relationship in the long run -- IF nothing goes wrong. Or -- perhaps it depends on "how much time."

I've actually had a similar "IT" relationship with my dentist, and it's only saved me money and been mutually beneficial so far over several years.

What to do? What to do? I'm going to pass to him some web-page lists from Crucial and Gigabyte for memory upgrade options.

He's also unhappy with his home computer . . .

 

[VirtualLarry]

He wanted Chrome and your action made it impossible for him to install it from Google, hence he had to find alternative solutions.

I still don't know that for a fact, that was just a supposition for what happened. If blocking permanent Google cookies made it impossible to download it, then they could have coded their JavaScript to recognize that, and give an error message that cookies are required to download Chrome.

What actually happened, was that he clicked the button to download, and the button just turned into a swirly thing and sat there. No indication of the problem. At the time, I just figured that their download server was overloaded, so I told him to try downloading it at his place.

It was only later on that the light bulb went off, that perhaps the download process was hanging up due to blocking Google's cookies.

Still, Google could check for that, and display an error message that cookies are required to download. Their site is very unfriendly.

Edit: PS. My actions, if they were in fact blocking Google Chrome's download process, still didn't make it impossible to download Chrome. He could have just fired up IE.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Can someone who isn't afraid of Google's EULA, or has already agreed to it, can they do this for me:

Install Firefox (if you don't have it already).

Set your privacy settings to "Custom", set third-party cookies to "Never", and set 1st-party cookies to "ask me every time". Under "Block", find any Google entries and delete them. Click "Cookies" and delete all your Google cookies.

Go to www.google.com/chrome , when it asks you to accept Google's cookies, check the box for "do this for all cookies", then click deny.

Then click to download chrome for desktop, when the EULA pops up, click "agree and download", and see if the cursor spins infinitely, or if it actually downloads the setup stub.
(It's not necessary to actually install it.)

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Can someone who isn't afraid of Google's EULA, or has already agreed to it, can they do this for me:

Install Firefox (if you don't have it already).

Set your privacy settings to "Custom", set third-party cookies to "Never", and set 1st-party cookies to "ask me every time". Under "Block", find any Google entries and delete them. Click "Cookies" and delete all your Google cookies.

Go to www.google.com/chrome , when it asks you to accept Google's cookies, check the box for "do this for all cookies", then click deny.

Then click to download chrome for desktop, when the EULA pops up, click "agree and download", and see if the cursor spins infinitely, or if it actually downloads the setup stub.
(It's not necessary to actually install it.)

There are things I'd gladly do for another forum member. There are some fine-tuning issues I'm currently resolving for myself on the only two systems that I could use in such an endeavor. And there are things I won't do with my own machines, like install and use Chrome.

You said the neighbor was a malware magnet. There are people you could leave alone with a perfectly configured computer for a week, and it would be soon in the sorry state similar to the one which has become your misfortune. From the other perspective, that's why the clueless are moving toward mobile devices that are harder to screw up. Or -- that was the appeal of the Apple systems a couple decades ago. Or so those people said.

I agree with some other poster here (was it Burpo?) who suggested it was unwise to install Chrome for your neighbor, when he might have done it himself and accepted responsibility for the consequences.

I'm sure you'll get through this, but we both see it is costing you time -- even for posting and adding to this thread.

 

[escrow4]

Yo, Larry. I actually considered starting a new thread, and could still do so -- but I'm facing a parallel problem.

I don't know whether you perform these "services" as a sideline, or if it's your "bread and butter." I've often helped friends with their computers, and if I ask them for something to cover my time and labor, they get peeved. Once back in 2003, it took me several days but maybe 10 hours total) to clean a friend's system of a virus. Just asking for compensation was an uncomfortable moment.

My potential "customer" is different than yours -- who is a neighbor.

My car mechanic -- who owns his independent shop -- rightfully depends on the technology. They have schematics and databases of parts -- online or locally. It is essential.

His "IT/computer-supplier" is also an independent. He sold my mechanic friend two office systems -- likely based on the AM3+ platform. The stickers on the front of the cases say "AMD FX." He explained his problem as we were chatting after I paid my bill.

He would access a parts database online. He has a FIOS connection with ATT. As he would scroll the list, all the characters would streak into lines in the window. It would take up to 30 seconds (possibly more?) before the characters would reappear. He's using a Samsung Synchmaster HD monitor. He somehow thought the problem was the monitor, but -- no.

He'd been sold this AMD Gigabyte micro-ATX motherboard -- no graphics card but onboard graphics instead. A single stick of DDR3-1333 RAM. I think it might only be a 2GB module!! Onboard graphics shows 128MB of VRAM, but I can't even be sure if that's "real" or part of the system RAM. I think he was sold a bill of goods totally inadequate to the business needs.

Either my friend was too parsimonious about his office PC investment, or he'd been sold something that is inadequate. I've got a few used graphics cards of which I could sell him one for a song. He'll have to buy the RAM; it'll have to be tested on a weekend when the shop is closed.

Or -- he can go back to his IT guy and possibly get ripped off. If I involve myself in this, though, I will suffer the consequences. I NEED a car mechanic I can TRUST. For my time, I'd just as soon abjure any charges. It's likely to improve the business relationship in the long run -- IF nothing goes wrong. Or -- perhaps it depends on "how much time."

I've actually had a similar "IT" relationship with my dentist, and it's only saved me money and been mutually beneficial so far over several years.

What to do? What to do? I'm going to pass to him some web-page lists from Crucial and Gigabyte for memory upgrade options.

He's also unhappy with his home computer . . .

That box probably has a trash 785G antique frisbee $30 mobo and cheapo RAM, combined with FX. Poor choice is the polite way of putting it. Inspect it and if it is, have the mechanic take it back. He wants an i5 at least with fat old databases and heavy .pdf's/spreadsheets. And HD 4600 would murder anything 700 series (which it likely is if it isn't an APU).

 

[VirtualLarry]

That box probably has a trash 785G antique frisbee $30 mobo and cheapo RAM, combined with FX. Poor choice is the polite way of putting it. Inspect it and if it is, have the mechanic take it back. He wants an i5 at least with fat old databases and heavy .pdf's/spreadsheets. And HD 4600 would murder anything 700 series (which it likely is if it isn't an APU).

TBH, chances are, the 785G or 760G IGP is actually adequate for desktop / office-type tasks. There's basically zero chance that the IGP is underpowered so much that when scrolling, it cannot re-draw lines of text.

I'm going to suggest that the machine probably has in-adequate RAM, and likely a HDD instead of an SSD, and it's probably paging out.

Get 16GB of RAM in the box first, and see if things improve. Then SSD, then consider adding a GPU.

I had a HTPC with a 785G chipset IGP, and I used it with HDMI output connected to a 32" HDTV, and was able to watch Planet Earth in 1080P flawlessly, as well as playing some Playstation (PSX) games in ePSXe pretty darn well on that IGP.

IOW, it wasn't underpowered for 1080P video, nor was it underpowered for the 3D gaming I was doing on it. So it's even more unlikely that it's underpowered for text duties.

Edit: The technical reasoning for my recommendation, is the way Windows UI works and redraws. When you click a scroll bar, Windows sends a command to the GPU, that bitblt's the rectangle of that window up one line (for example), and then sends a re-paint message to the application, and it's supposed to do whatever it has to do, and then call Windows' APIs to re-draw the missing line. What's likely happening, is the user is repeatedly clicking the scroll bar, Windows is bitblt'ing the area, but the re-paint of the missing area from the application is delayed, because the application isn't processing its message queue in a timely fashion, probably because it's waiting for portions of RAM to be paged in from disk, especially if the rig only has 2GB of RAM installed.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

TBH, chances are, the 785G or 760G IGP is actually adequate for desktop / office-type tasks. There's basically zero chance that the IGP is underpowered so much that when scrolling, it cannot re-draw lines of text.

I'm going to suggest that the machine probably has in-adequate RAM, and likely a HDD instead of an SSD, and it's probably paging out.

Get 16GB of RAM in the box first, and see if things improve. Then SSD, then consider adding a GPU.

I had a HTPC with a 785G chipset IGP, and I used it with HDMI output connected to a 32" HDTV, and was able to watch Planet Earth in 1080P flawlessly, as well as playing some Playstation (PSX) games in ePSXe pretty darn well on that IGP.

IOW, it wasn't underpowered for 1080P video, nor was it underpowered for the 3D gaming I was doing on it. So it's even more unlikely that it's underpowered for text duties.

Edit: The technical reasoning for my recommendation, is the way Windows UI works and redraws. When you click a scroll bar, Windows sends a command to the GPU, that bitblt's the rectangle of that window up one line (for example), and then sends a re-paint message to the application, and it's supposed to do whatever it has to do, and then call Windows' APIs to re-draw the missing line. What's likely happening, is the user is repeatedly clicking the scroll bar, Windows is bitblt'ing the area, but the re-paint of the missing area from the application is delayed, because the application isn't processing its message queue in a timely fashion, probably because it's waiting for portions of RAM to be paged in from disk, especially if the rig only has 2GB of RAM installed.

That's a more specific, less intuitive explanation of what I suspected.

There's only one module in those four RAM slots. I have to take the Isuzu Pooper in for oil-change and tune-up next week, so I'll look at his System Info again. I forgot, in my hurry Friday, to check the actual RAM in system info, but I'd popped open the side panel and only saw that one module. Granted -- single channel versus dual channel won't make a lot of difference, but if it's only a 1 or 2GB stick of RAM, that might explain it. I'd be stunned if it were a 4GB stick.

He's got a 2-disk RAID1 in there, having learned a lesson from some previous HDD catastrophe and a lack of backups. He could keep the mirrored disks and there are yet plenty of ways to speed it up without risk to his system or data. From our conversation, he was totally clueless as to what the acronym "SSD" means.

I'm going to treat this with kid gloves, and move slowly toward helping him without creating misery for myself. If I made it work with my dentist, I can further my business relationship with my car mechanic.

Carefully . . . . But there's plenty of RAM available that fits that system.

 

[VirtualLarry]

If his main OS drive(s) are in a RAID1, that's good. I probably wouldn't mess with them then. Possibly, though, add an SSD, and put the swapfile on the SSD. Swap really kills HDD performance.

And of course, check the RAM. If it's an 8GB stick, then possibly my explanation is off. But I would still try to talk him into putting 16GB as a minimum in there.

 

[BUTCH1]

Yes, it's entirely your fault, as you know these things & he doesn't. That's why he brought it to you. Yet you let him leave with an unfinished PC and allowed HIM to finish/muck it up..
Seriously? You think you have to format & start over because of some Malware?
Restore it to where it was before it left your shop. Clean it & install the browser.. Done..

Yea, that's what I was thinking, if it's just a single infestation then squash it and give it back to him. I understand that sometimes a system can be so crapped out with malware that a reformat/OS re-install is the best route but one malware issue hardly means a complete reformat.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

If his main OS drive(s) are in a RAID1, that's good. I probably wouldn't mess with them then. Possibly, though, add an SSD, and put the swapfile on the SSD. Swap really kills HDD performance.

And of course, check the RAM. If it's an 8GB stick, then possibly my explanation is off. But I would still try to talk him into putting 16GB as a minimum in there.

Like I said, I thought a single RAM module in the board was an indication of the same thing I'd seen over the years with "small-computer-shop" builders selling locally to the public: If customers don't have a clue about the components, such a seller-builder could tell them anything about wants versus needs, and capture the cost of a second RAM module as extra profit-margin for that sale.

I'll just have to have a look-see to confirm how much RAM is in that box.

Anything else is a bridge-too-far at the moment, or we'd cross it when we get there. In the auto-shop case, it's a business depending on its IT. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes on something like this, such as with your neighbor's PC.

 

[XavierMace]

As somebody who's done his share of tech support, I would have to question your decision to block Google's cookies.

Ok, you personally don't like Google. Fine, that's your choice. I can even understand your decision not to install Chrome for him.

But you aren't working on YOUR computer. Google isn't just Chrome. Gmail is a fact of life for most people. Literally if I look through my entire contact list, there's 4 people on there that don't have Gmail addresses. My parents and grandparents, despite my best efforts. I can't say I've ever blocked Google's cookies (although I'm happy to try for you when I get home, if I don't forget), but I would assume that's going to effect most of their services in a negative fashion. In my opinion, blocking Google's cookies on a customer system is a bad call.

Given you just cleaned a "heavily" infected computer for him, it's obvious he's got a habit of clicking on things he shouldn't. Personally I wouldn't have told him to go download Chrome at home in that case.

 

[DaveSimmons]

As somebody who's done his share of tech support, I would have to question your decision to block Google's cookies.

Ok, you personally don't like Google. Fine, that's your choice. I can even understand your decision not to install Chrome for him.

But you aren't working on YOUR computer. Google isn't just Chrome. Gmail is a fact of life for most people. Literally if I look through my entire contact list, there's 4 people on there that don't have Gmail addresses. My parents and grandparents, despite my best efforts. I can't say I've ever blocked Google's cookies (although I'm happy to try for you when I get home, if I don't forget), but I would assume that's going to effect most of their services in a negative fashion. In my opinion, blocking Google's cookies on a customer system is a bad call.

Given you just cleaned a "heavily" infected computer for him, it's obvious he's got a habit of clicking on things he shouldn't. Personally I wouldn't have told him to go download Chrome at home in that case.

I have to agree with this. Most people are fine with allowing Google's cookies, tracking and targeted ads in exchange for the free services including search, mail and youtube.

I get that you consider your privacy more important than that, but your customer's preferences should take precedence for their own computer.

 

[redzo]

You are better off without customers than with customers like this. Too many times I only press an "innocent" key, then tomorrow I'm responsible for all the freaking things that were wrong with their computer starting 2 years ago. I've had it with this mambo jumbo. I only help people that I know personally and I leave the other "specie" for work. I've got plenty of those at work.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You are better off without customers than with customers like this. Too many times I only press an "innocent" key, then tomorrow I'm responsible for all the freaking things that were wrong with their computer starting 2 years ago. I've had it with this mambo jumbo. I only help people that I know personally and I leave the other "specie" for work. I've got plenty of those at work.

Well, it's an interesting dilemma. Business comes with liabilities and headaches. If you have an income -- for instance, if you're "retired" -- you have to ask yourself if it's worth the hassle to really establish a "business."

Take my dentist, for example. He has to shell out between $200 and $300 an hour for labor costs. He can't conduct himself like the old small-town doctors who were altruistic price-discriminating monopolists, charging the rich and discounting for the poor. His staff runs the office like a business, and customers must pay at the standard rates. If I help him with his computers, it's always about equal to what I'd expect elsewhere for the same work. The girls in the office always seem a bit reluctant, if the bargain requires a discount to the charges.

The auto-repair shop has its own profile. With myths about unnecessary repairs (and there are unnecessary surgical operations, unnecessary root-canals as well), the customers want the proprietor/mechanic to report "things that need to be done." Where does he draw the line? Replacing an engine main-seal can cost $900; the customer may be fine topping off the oil every month with a half-quart. My cousin across town once told the story of working at a dealership where another mechanic or supervisor told him they would tell an elderly couple that a molded seam in the engine block was a crack -- then convince the customer, schedule the repair and walk away with the extra loot.

There is either trust, or there is suspicion. With suspicion, there are costs of searching the market for an alternate provider. There are the costs of uncertainty in finding a provider who is either "really" dishonest or more dishonest. My dentist's competitor down the street gave my brother an estimate of $27,000 for mouth repair; our dentist came in at about $8,500.

Like the late '60s talk show host, Louie Lomax used to say: "From dah fryin' pan -- into da fire!"

 

[XavierMace]

Can someone who isn't afraid of Google's EULA, or has already agreed to it, can they do this for me:

Install Firefox (if you don't have it already).

Set your privacy settings to "Custom", set third-party cookies to "Never", and set 1st-party cookies to "ask me every time". Under "Block", find any Google entries and delete them. Click "Cookies" and delete all your Google cookies.

Go to www.google.com/chrome , when it asks you to accept Google's cookies, check the box for "do this for all cookies", then click deny.

Then click to download chrome for desktop, when the EULA pops up, click "agree and download", and see if the cursor spins infinitely, or if it actually downloads the setup stub.
(It's not necessary to actually install it.)

I see no 1st party cookies option, but with the rest of those settings, yes it spins indefinitely:

Some quick testing shows you can get around that by trying to install Google Earth. That gives you a standalone installer for Google Update which then installs Google Chrome. I didn't get the chance to test if the Google Hangouts app works, but I suspect it will have problems since blocking cookies requires you to resupply 2 factor credentials (if you have it enabled) every time you launch the browser.