You don't believe in evolution? Have a look-see...

[l0g0ut]

have anyone ever think that man do not evolve from apes but apes evolves from man?

p/s: we are just put here by aliens from another planet. someday they will come and harvest us for food.

 

[Kosugi]

Fdisk,

I am sorry, but you are not properly informed.


We do test the evolution theories constantly, and at least on a microcasm, they appear valid.

One day we will be playing God ourselves, manipulating the DNA sequences to reduce the amount of disease, and extending human life. We will be speeding up our own evolution. I know that there are valid ethical considerations regarding this, and cloning, but they will be addressed over time. What we don't need is reactionaries.

From a previous post you seemed to believe that the earth is between 3 and 10 thousand years old. That too is false. We have written recorded history dating back 8,000 years (that's using calendars, not C14 dating), so it is unlikely. If you include some cave paintings, you can go back to about 12-16 thousand years. Or before the earth was created, according to jrobbin and you.

No, though I'm in IT now, my college education was Chemistry, and my first two jobs were working as a tech in a research lab. I've met people like you so often... show them the world is round and they will look only as far as the horizon and tell you that it is flat. Myopia is their friend. Oh, do you believe the world is round? I shouldn't have brought that up, I might be assaulting your beliefs...

 

[Elledan]

fdiskboy

The fact that creationism is based on a myth should say enough. And why we don't 'bash muslims'? Simple, firstly: there are hardly any Muslims here, hard to talk to them, eh? secondly: they don't have such a theory like creationism which they yell at everyone in sight.

BTW I'm right now reading an article in a scientific magazine, related to evolution. If I would believe you, than this article would be filled with lies. Strangely, I've never, ever seen an article in any of the scientific magazines I read (a few Dutch ones and Science) about creationism.

You say that it requires faith to believe even in evolution? That's right and I agree 100% with you. You know that we're actually all living in the Matrix? This is already happening for a long,long time and we've been unaware of it, because the Matrix is such a perfect simulation of reality.
You don't believe it? Prove it.

Don't even bother trying to disprove anything. Nothing can be proven. Everything is relative. Even time and space can be bend and formed by us in every way we want. We can create a black hole which will make the Earth disappear in it within a few year.

 

[bobtist]

Actually, the Matrix that we realized that we were living in was actually a fake. The reality that was fought so hard for is just in the Matrix of another Matrix, and THAT Matrix my friend, is in the true reality.

So what are we going to do troops?! Let's make a black hole and let the earth get sucked into it. Why? Because we can. Just like we can create life from scratch...

edit: I alway out words in my sentences.

 

[SpongeBob]

Actually, the Matrix that we realized that we were living in was actually a fake. The reality that was fought so hard for is just in the Matrix of another Matrix, and THAT Matrix my friend, is in the true reality.

So is this like a 3 X 3 matrix? Where's my HP?

</SpongeBob stuggles to find the determinant>

 

[Napalm381]

<< . But along the lines that many non-Christians argue about how if one thing in the bible is proven wrong, then potentially the whole book is wrong. Well, if there are a few things wrong with evolutionary theory, doesn't that mean that potentially everything is wrong? >>

Not necessarily. With regards to the bible, it does have numerous parts that are essentially impossible. However, it also has quite a bit of historical information that can be confirmed via other sources, and is clearly based in actual history.

With regards to scientific theories with problems, just because a scientific theory is not entirely correct does not necessarily completely discount it all aspects of it. The Bohr model of the hydrogen atom had quite a few shortcomings, not the least of which was that it only worked for single-electron atoms. But it also had quite a few correct assertations about the nature of atoms. Overall, it served as an important stepping stone for the formulation of later theories which correspond well with the empirical evidence.



<< Again, you guys don't have a clue about what science is. Anyone care to look up the scientific method. >>

I'm a senior in college in chemical engineering. Your assertation is laughably incorrect.



<< Show me &quot;proof&quot; of evolution and I'll refute it every time. >>

Humans share key parts of their DNA (sequences for codons) with almost every other form of life on earth, the few exceptions being a few ciliates and cellular organelles, and even those differ only a few triplets. Proof? No. But it is evidence that strongly supports evolutionary theory.

 

[Rio Rebel]

I have one question about this.

How could there be evidence which, as the author claims, &quot;only leaves room&quot; for evolution? I don't see how this conclusion can possibly be drawn.

I CAN see how an analysis of the evidence could point ever more strongly toward evolution as the best explanation. But I don't see how evidence could EVER &quot;only leave room&quot; for evolutionary theory. But at its heart, the theory of evolution is making a causal connection. And no examination of any evidence can ever lead you to accurately say that &quot;X *must* have come from Y, because there is no room to believe anything else.&quot;

 

[stanger]

He is the First and Last, the Beginning and the End!
He is the keeper of Creation and the Creator of all!
He is the Architect of the universe and
The Manager of all times.
He always was, He always is, and He always will be...
Unmoved, Unchanged, Undefeated, and never Undone!
He was bruised and brought healing!
He was pierced and eased pain!
He was persecuted and brought freedom!
He was dead and brought life!
He is risen and brings power!
He reigns and brings Peace!
The world can't understand him,
The armies can't defeat Him,
The schools can't explain Him, and
The leaders can't ignore Him.
Herod couldn't kill Him,
The Pharisees couldn't confuse Him, and
The people couldn't hold Him!
Nero couldn't crush Him,
Hitler couldn't silence Him,
The New Age can't replace Him, and
Donahue can't explain Him away!
He is light, love, longevity, and Lord.
He is goodness, Kindness, Gentleness, and God.
He is Holy, Righteous, mighty, powerful, and pure.
His ways are right,
His word is eternal,
His will is unchanging, and
His mind is on me.
He is my Redeemer,
He is my Savior,
He is my guide, and
He is my peace!
He is my Joy,
He is my comfort,
He is my Lord, and
He rules my life!
I serve Him because His bond is love,
His burden is light, and
His goal for me is abundant life.
I follow Him because He is the wisdom of the wise,
The power of the powerful,
The ancient of days, the ruler of rulers,
The leader of leaders, the overseer of the overcomers, and
The sovereign Lord of all that was and is and is to come.
And if that seems impressive to you, try this for size.
His goal is a relationship with ME!
He will never leave me,
Never forsake me,
Never mislead me,
Never forget me,
Never overlook me, and
Ever cancel my appointment in His appointment book!
When I fall, He lifts me up!
When I fail, He forgives!
When I am weak, He is strong!
When I am lost, He is the way!
When I am afraid, He is my courage!
When I stumble, He steadies me!
When I am hurt, He heals me!
When I am broken, He mends me!
When I am blind, He leads me!
When I am hungry, He feeds me!
When I face trials, He is with me!
When I face persecution, He shields me!
When I face problems, He comforts me!
When I face loss, He provides for me!
When I face Death, He carries me Home!
He is everything for everybody, everywhere,
Every time, and every way.
He is God, He is faithful.
I am His, and He is mine!
My Father in heaven can whip the father of this world.
So, if you're wondering why I feel so secure, understand this...
He said it and that settles it.
God is in control, I am on His side, and
That means all is well with my soul.
Everyday is a blessing for GOD Is!

 

[Mister T]

Napoleon once said that the smartest person in a room is he who keeps his mouth shut.

 

[Rio Rebel]

He said it and that settles it.

Yes, but does He understand the scientific method? Was He ever a senior engineering major?

What were His SAT scores?

 

[Mister T]

Fr. Stanger, let me know when you are doing the offering,
I have a some loose change burning a hole in my pocket.

 

[Zucchini]

oh fuxors, the church is wrong again....

ugh i mean the devil made our dna to trick us!:Q

 

[Napalm381]

<< How could there be evidence which, as the author claims, &quot;only leaves room&quot; for evolution? I don't see how this conclusion can possibly be drawn. >>

Agreed. I have stated before on this board that one can never TRULY be 100 percent confident about anything. However, where do you draw the line? At what point do you shift things from being &quot;potentially&quot; correct to &quot;definitely&quot; correct? I don't think anybody here would argue that the world is flat. There is so much evidence supporting such an assertation that it would be silly to claim anything else. But, going by the same line of reasoning, should we doubt that the earth is round, even though nothing can truly be conclusively proven?



<< Yes, but does He understand the scientific method? Was He ever a senior engineering major?

What were His SAT scores? >>

The point of my post was merely to point out that his assertation that I know nothing about the scientific method was completely incorrect, nothing more. That's two theists in two days that make incorrect assumptions about people's mental faculties in their posts. You're on a roll!

 

[Rio Rebel]

Napalm,

You missed the entire point of my question. I wasn't talking about observable facts, I was talking about causal connections. By observing the earth, we CAN rule out theories about it. We can rule out the theory that it is flat by making calculations and observations.

See if they'll let you take some logic and epistemology courses before you graduate. It really helps put all that scientific knowledge into perspective.

 

[bigd480]

not to bash Christians but i think it's fairly obvious that the creationism theory has been disproven time and again...

however i think the biggest morons are the &quot;scientific&quot; know-nothings who think that there is no God...

just because the popular creationist theory has been disproven you think you're right? so what if man came from apes or fish or bacteria? who created the bacteria? or the planets? or the rest of the damn universe?

no matter what you call it, we were all created by some sort of higher power or supreme being, and that is the only thing that is impossible to disprove...

read your middle school science books - the law of conservation of matter: matter cannot be created? wtf?! then how does our universe exist?

 

[GaryTcs]

Actually, doesn't this article only show either A: common ancestry, or B: re-use of common gene areas by a creator? (kinda like GM making a minivan and a car on the same chassis?) Me thinks this thread and article cannot prove either. I'm always fascinated by both sides defending inconclusive evidence as irrefutable truth. This is little more than seeing an image of Jesus in a doughnut. A zealot takes what he wants from the information presented.

The only question that matters is where did the first lifeform on earth originate. If your gunna answer that, be specific. What exact form of life was it (not just amoeba, give the name) and where and how did it come to be.

 

[LordMaul]

Mmmmm....I thought us &quot;stupid hard headed creationists&quot; were supposed to do the fighting/coverting?! WHats up with this??

 

[fdiskboy]

Kosugi,

You are so pathetic. If you indeed were educated as a chemist, I'd like to know where, so my child does not make the mistake of attending that institution.


For the rest of you, I pity you. Perhaps you are all right and I am the fool. Perhaps I am right and you will have eternity to consider that.

Interesting to say the least.

 

[Kosugi]

Fdisk,

I notice you &quot;pity&quot; alot of people. You say that alot.


Don't you worry, we pity you too...



&quot;I PITY DA FOOL!&quot; -- BA Baracus. A-Team.

 

[Moonbeam]

Rio Rebel The author of the article, in my opinion, is a gas bag. He simply asserts that what has been known for a long time proves evolution when in fact it's just more evidence of evolution. fdiskboy is quite disingenuous when he claims that evolution and God rest on faith. That's true, but the nature of the faith is entirely different. Science is a dicipline, a way of seeking the principles that underlie phenomena. It is built of insight, inspiration, and theoretical modelling which is tested. Things must be repeatable by others. If you see riverbeds on Mars, if everything about tnem says riverbed, the conclusion is that water ran on the surface of mars. The conclusion is reached, without proof when everything about the beds shouts, yes I am a river bed even though we can't see any water now, or take a closer look for stratification of soil, etc. An explanation that accounts for all the known information and is denied by none of it is concidered true, but it's still faith. A religious faith built on info in an infallable book is faith too, but a completely different kind of faith. The fact that evolution cannot be experimentally proved because you can't go back in time to run the experiment is a silly way to say it's faith. If we could go back and set up cameras, we would see evolution to a hugly high probability because the snapshots provided by paleontology give us just that, proof with high eligance, proof that is overwhealming if you aren't committed elsewhere. Evolution is real because mother nature doesn't lie.

 

[Elledan]

<<read your middle school science books - the law of conservation of matter: matter cannot be created? wtf?!
then how does our universe exist? >>

Calling you badly informed would be insuffient. You're forgetting that the Universe did already exist before the Big Bang, but it was a 'sphere' of an extremely high density. Due to some unknown process this 'spere' expanded rapidly (the universe is still cooling down because of this, also background radiation from this process can still be measured). Then the elementary particles formed and solar systems slowly formed.

The question &quot;What was before the Big Bang?&quot; is easily answered: Nothing. There existed no time before the universe started to expand so there was no 'time before' the Big Bang.

How life came to existance? Easy: on the young earth, amino-acids formed. They were protected against the environment by membranes which came out of space (those were formed on meteorites). Slowly more complicated molecules started to form themselves until they became eventually the first bacteria. Some of those 'merged' and became the first 'real' cells, including mitochondrions and other organelle.

Those cells became the first living creatures on earth consisting out of multiple cells.

From that point, life has developed itself into a wide variety of species.

 

[Napalm381]

<< Perhaps you are all right and I am the fool. Perhaps I am right and you will have eternity to consider that. >>

Please, spare us the Pascal's Wager-posts. Pascal's little &quot;proof&quot; or whatever you want to call it is far from being logically correct.

Rio- I understood the point of your question quite clearly- that we cannot, for certain, say that &quot;X implies Y&quot; with anything. Perhaps my &quot;earth is flat/round&quot; example was not the best.
If you spent more time stating your point in a clear, well defined manner, and less time hurling childish insults and making baseless, inaccurate claims about others, I would not misinterpret your posts quite so often.

 

[Zucchini]

lordmaul,

take an anthopology/human evolution class. you might learn something It can't hurt to get something other then your parentally filtered home schooled education.

 

[Rio Rebel]

Napalm,

No, you still don't get it. I'm not talking about basic philosophical skepticism.

Regardless of who is throwing &quot;childish insults&quot;, you are clearly operating on the assumption that anything unclear to you must either be communicated ineffectively or make no sense. I have re-read my posts, and the point has been made as clearly as it can be.

I have been intentionally insulting. I admit that, and I apologize for it. It have a hard time reading or listenting to what I consider unjustified arrogance.

Now if you continue to dismiss my own arguments as unclear simply because you don't understand them, that's your choice. Quite a few of my professors and colleagues understood them, and I'm sure their academic profile would compare favorably with yours (as incredible as that may be to believe).

 

[BoberFett]

<< The question &quot;What was before the Big Bang?&quot; is easily answered: Nothing. There existed no time before the universe started to expand so there was no 'time before' the Big Bang. >>

Uh, ok big guy. Whatever you say.