YOU be the manager (Updated 7/25)

[kranky]

UPDATE 7/25
The employee and I talked about it yesterday and I said we'll start with a clean slate, and I laid out more specific expectations about work hours.

I need to know when it's not going to be a full 8 hour day (remember, being required to work overtime is very, very rare) because if someone asks me where that person is during work hours, I need to have an answer.

It's the employee's responsibility to tell me if there is not enough work to fully occupy their time. If the employee doesn't want to accept that responsibility and needs someone to look over their shoulder, we can meet for a few minutes a couple times a week to review the workload status.

We finished the discussion on cordial terms. I still believe the employee was being snarky about the whole "but you never told me not to" thing, but that's OK as it won't work twice. I apologized for not being clear enough during the orientation period. And we'll see what happens.
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Original post below:
- Employee has been here 2.5 years. 10 years experience in a professional field. Workday is 8 hours. He's salaried. The job might require 5 hours of overtime over a year, it's extremely rare.
- A month ago I happened to notice he came in a little late and also left early the same day (about a 7 hour day). This was sheer coincidence as I do not monitor comings and goins.
- Last week it seemed he was gone a very long time for lunch. Now I am curious so I start watching on and off but not all day every day.
- Monday took a 1.75 hour lunch (lunch is 30 minutes unless you're going to work late to cover the difference). Came back carrying a take-out lunch. Left at normal time so did not cover the extra 1+ hours at lunch.
- Tuesday most definitely only worked 7 hours.

Today I sit down with him and say that I have noticed some very short work days recently and I asked what was going on.

His answer was that he didn't have enough work for a full day and didn't think it mattered whether he was here 8 hours or took a long lunch.

I asked if he thought I should have realized that on my own and given him more work, or whether it was up to him to alert me. He said it was my job to monitor his workload and he figured if all the work was done he was free to leave or take a long lunch.

I suggested that as a professional, he had the responsibility to point out if he needed work to do, and also I was not happy about the casualness of his work effort.

He shrugged and said he wouldn't do it any more and made a point to say he did not want this held against him since it was the first time I had brought it up. Basically "you never said NOT to leave early, or take a long lunch, or that I was supposed to say I needed more work, so how was I to know?"

And I thought that was BS excuse-making and said we could talk more about it next week.

Should I take the guy at his word that he really didn't think any of that was wrong and I was supposed to be watching over his shoulder all the time so I could jump in? I think the only thing I will add to the conversation is that he has damaged his reputation with me, I can't pretend that never happened, and then list 100 other things he should never do so he can't say I never told him, for example, not to steal from the company or run a side business on company time.

 

[Brigandier]

Is he German?

 

[NetWareHead]

The guy is a moron and his excuse reeks of BS. I'd also think his work effort was casual and smacks of unprofessionalism. How can somebody say that to a superior?

 

[Rumpltzer]

I don't care for his attitude (that he's not accountable to alert you about his workload), and that counts against him a lot.

As I read the first part of what you wrote, I did wonder if he was completing all of the work that's being asked of him... and it seems that he is.

Give him more work. Monitor him more closely. Be clear with him about what you expect from him and his work. Give him (or don't) raises in accordance with his performance. Let him know when he screws up; it's fair to tell him that you're not impressed with his attitude.

 

[styrafoam]

Do any of the other employees have an understanding as to how workload is determined and what the expectation is when you finish your assigned work for the day? Was it ever formally communicated to them? If not, get that put in the handbook asap and he gets a freebie it seems. 2.5 years does seem like a more than enough time to be in the swing of things though.

 

[fuzzybabybunny]

How's the quality of his work? As someone who employs people I don't give a damn how they do it or how short they work as long as the end result is high quality work that is on time.

Edit: and really, there is zero reason to arbitrarily keep a human being for 8 hours in an office if he can complete that work in 7 hours with the same level of quality. At that point it is up to the manager to assign more work (and possibly more pay) or just let them go ahead and reap the rewards of their efficiency and experience.

 

[Anonemous]

- Employee has been here 2.5 years. 10 years experience in a professional field. Workday is 8 hours. He's salaried. The job might require 5 hours of overtime over a year, it's extremely rare.
(snip)

Sounds like my friend's workplace. Works as a temp/contractor and he sees his coworkers (who are full time) do that with the exception that they may or may not be completing their task in a prompt fashion. Meanwhile he has to work overtime (with no pay even though he is hourly) and eat lunches while working for a shot at a full time gig.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Is he actually accomplishing his work in a timely manner or is he shirking his responsibilities? If he's hugely efficient and accomplishing a proper workload in an expedited timeframe, I wouldn't put the expectation on him that he should volunteer to ask for more work (unless it comes with an increase in pay). But he should be aware that taking long lunches regularly is frowned upon, that's just common sense.

 

[lxskllr]

How's the quality of his work? As someone who employs people I don't give a damn how they do it or how short they work as long as the end result is high quality work that is on time.

Kind of this, but small details matter. Based solely on what you've written, his attitude seems a little blasé, but details can make a big difference either way.

 

[highland145]

Inspect what you expect. Many lack a good work ethic.


Looks at post count......:$

 

[KeithTalent]

How's the quality of his work? As someone who employs people I don't give a damn how they do it or how short they work as long as the end result is high quality work that is on time.

I don't care either, but you also can't just let people take advantage of you either. It tends to lead to other issues, like resentment from other employees.

I am more than happy to let people leave early/come in late, or whatever, just let me know. There may be other work that needs to be done; at the absolute very least, it's a courtesy you should give to the person who manages or employs you.

KT

 

[rudeguy]

I can relate to the employee.

I generally work faster and do more work than others. Give me and someone else the same workload and I will get it done sooner than expected.

Why take this as a bad thing? Why not challenge him? Sit down with him and see if he is up for a new project. See if he wants some more responsibility. Challenge the guy, don't penalize him for being a fast worker.

What's different about him taking a long lunch and someone neffing or cruising facebook? I would rather have someone that likes to be busy than someone who is good at wasting time.

 

[darkxshade]

I can understand his POV, I've been in his situation all the years I've worked except I had an understanding with my manager(as in I brought it up with him before I did it) and he doesn't care as long as there's coverage within the team to account for anything that may come up and that I have actually completed my work.

I think this is pretty common with lax work environments. So although his choice of words weren't great, I guess let it slide and just give him more work if this isn't the way you want to run things. I worked in a group though so we also set up schedules during non-busy months where we had some people leave early just because there's no point having several people in the office when nothing is likely to happen.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Is this a parody of the motorcycle brake-check thread where the correct answer is that both parties are morons?

Yes, the guy is definitely dishonest and is working the system. But if it took you this long to notice and you had no idea of his actual work efficiency, what sort of load he could handle and how many hours he wasted over the years you are piss poor at your job.

 

[JEDI]

- Employee has been here 2.5 years. 10 years experience in a professional field. Workday is 8 hours. He's salaried. The job might require 5 hours of overtime over a year, it's extremely rare.
- A month ago I happened to notice he came in a little late and also left early the same day (about a 7 hour day). This was sheer coincidence as I do not monitor comings and goins.
- Last week it seemed he was gone a very long time for lunch. Now I am curious so I start watching on and off but not all day every day.
- Monday took a 1.75 hour lunch (lunch is 30 minutes unless you're going to work late to cover the difference). Came back carrying a take-out lunch. Left at normal time so did not cover the extra 1+ hours at lunch.
- Tuesday most definitely only worked 7 hours.

Today I sit down with him and say that I have noticed some very short work days recently and I asked what was going on.

His answer was that he didn't have enough work for a full day and didn't think it mattered whether he was here 8 hours or took a long lunch.

I asked if he thought I should have realized that on my own and given him more work, or whether it was up to him to alert me. He said it was my job to monitor his workload and he figured if all the work was done he was free to leave or take a long lunch.

I suggested that as a professional, he had the responsibility to point out if he needed work to do, and also I was not happy about the casualness of his work effort.

He shrugged and said he wouldn't do it any more and made a point to say he did not want this held against him since it was the first time I had brought it up. Basically "you never said NOT to leave early, or take a long lunch, or that I was supposed to say I needed more work, so how was I to know?"

And I thought that was BS excuse-making and said we could talk more about it next week.

Should I take the guy at his word that he really didn't think any of that was wrong and I was supposed to be watching over his shoulder all the time so I could jump in? I think the only thing I will add to the conversation is that he has damaged his reputation with me, I can't pretend that never happened, and then list 100 other things he should never do so he can't say I never told him, for example, not to steal from the company or run a side business on company time.

are you in an at will work state?
if so, fire him

if not, put him on an employee improvement plan.

 

[Schfifty Five]

- Employee has been here 2.5 years. 10 years experience in a professional field. Workday is 8 hours. He's salaried. The job might require 5 hours of overtime over a year, it's extremely rare.
- A month ago I happened to notice he came in a little late and also left early the same day (about a 7 hour day). This was sheer coincidence as I do not monitor comings and goins.
- Last week it seemed he was gone a very long time for lunch. Now I am curious so I start watching on and off but not all day every day.
- Monday took a 1.75 hour lunch (lunch is 30 minutes unless you're going to work late to cover the difference). Came back carrying a take-out lunch. Left at normal time so did not cover the extra 1+ hours at lunch.
- Tuesday most definitely only worked 7 hours.

Today I sit down with him and say that I have noticed some very short work days recently and I asked what was going on.

His answer was that he didn't have enough work for a full day and didn't think it mattered whether he was here 8 hours or took a long lunch.

I asked if he thought I should have realized that on my own and given him more work, or whether it was up to him to alert me. He said it was my job to monitor his workload and he figured if all the work was done he was free to leave or take a long lunch.

I suggested that as a professional, he had the responsibility to point out if he needed work to do, and also I was not happy about the casualness of his work effort.

He shrugged and said he wouldn't do it any more and made a point to say he did not want this held against him since it was the first time I had brought it up. Basically "you never said NOT to leave early, or take a long lunch, or that I was supposed to say I needed more work, so how was I to know?"

And I thought that was BS excuse-making and said we could talk more about it next week.

Should I take the guy at his word that he really didn't think any of that was wrong and I was supposed to be watching over his shoulder all the time so I could jump in? I think the only thing I will add to the conversation is that he has damaged his reputation with me, I can't pretend that never happened, and then list 100 other things he should never do so he can't say I never told him, for example, not to steal from the company or run a side business on company time.

The way you described it, it sounded like HE was managing YOU.

 

[PenguinPower]

- Employee has been here 2.5 years. 10 years experience in a professional field. Workday is 8 hours. He's salaried. I assume exempt status. He doesn't have a hours expectation. His expectation is to work until the job is done. The job might require 5 hours of overtime over a year, it's extremely rare.
- A month ago I happened to notice he came in a little late and also left early the same day (about a 7 hour day). This was sheer coincidence as I do not monitor comings and goins.
- Last week it seemed he was gone a very long time for lunch. Now I am curious so I start watching on and off but not all day every day.
- Monday took a 1.75 hour lunch (lunch is 30 minutes unless you're going to work late to cover the difference). Came back carrying a take-out lunch. Left at normal time so did not cover the extra 1+ hours at lunch.
- Tuesday most definitely only worked 7 hours.

Today I sit down with him and say that I have noticed some very short work days recently and I asked what was going on.

His answer was that he didn't have enough work for a full day and didn't think it mattered whether he was here 8 hours or took a long lunch.

I asked if he thought I should have realized that on my own and given him more work, or whether it was up to him to alert me. He said it was my job to monitor his workload and he figured if all the work was done he was free to leave or take a long lunch.

I suggested that as a professional, he had the responsibility to point out if he needed work to do, and also I was not happy about the casualness of his work effort.

He shrugged and said he wouldn't do it any more and made a point to say he did not want this held against him since it was the first time I had brought it up. Basically "you never said NOT to leave early, or take a long lunch, or that I was supposed to say I needed more work, so how was I to know?" What expectations did you communicate to him up front? What policies are in place regarding this?

And I thought that was BS excuse-making and said we could talk more about it next week.

Should I take the guy at his word that he really didn't think any of that was wrong and I was supposed to be watching over his shoulder all the time so I could jump in? What's his history like? Good output, truthful, no history of corrective action? Then yes. I think the only thing I will add to the conversation is that he has damaged his reputation with me, I can't pretend that never happened, and then list 100 other things he should never do so he can't say I never told him, for example, not to steal from the company or run a side business on company time. Yes, but, being an exempt employee does not allow you to do these things. Being an exempt employee does mean that you don't work to hours, you work to output. You can communicate that an exempt employee is expected to be here between x and y in order to effective perform his/her functions, but it's on you to communicate that.

End of the day, you need to document the conversation and put it in his file. I don't know what your normal procedures are for that.

 

[sdifox]

At the very minimum he should have asked you if it was ok for him to take longer lunch or leave early.

 

[Schfifty Five]

I can relate to the employee.

I generally work faster and do more work than others. Give me and someone else the same workload and I will get it done sooner than expected.

Why take this as a bad thing? Why not challenge him? Sit down with him and see if he is up for a new project. See if he wants some more responsibility. Challenge the guy, don't penalize him for being a fast worker.

What's different about him taking a long lunch and someone neffing or cruising facebook? I would rather have someone that likes to be busy than someone who is good at wasting time.

It's a bad thing because the employee doesn't bother to communicate with his manager and assumes he can just do whatever he wants to do. I bet if the employee had talked w/ the OP about him finishing his work quicker and asked if he could take longer lunches, or something, they could find a middle ground to it all.

 

[Vdubchaos]

WOW, OP is a typical boss......unreal

- Employee has been here 2.5 years. 10 years experience in a professional field. Workday is 8 hours. He's salaried. The job might require 5 hours of overtime over a year, it's extremely rare.
- A month ago I happened to notice he came in a little late and also left early the same day (about a 7 hour day). This was sheer coincidence as I do not monitor comings and goins.
- Last week it seemed he was gone a very long time for lunch. Now I am curious so I start watching on and off but not all day every day.
- Monday took a 1.75 hour lunch (lunch is 30 minutes unless you're going to work late to cover the difference). Came back carrying a take-out lunch. Left at normal time so did not cover the extra 1+ hours at lunch.
- Tuesday most definitely only worked 7 hours.

Today I sit down with him and say that I have noticed some very short work days recently and I asked what was going on.

His answer was that he didn't have enough work for a full day and didn't think it mattered whether he was here 8 hours or took a long lunch.

I will tell you right now. You have someone good on your hands AND honest.

Most people will NEVER tell you they don't have enough work as that can trigger a lay off for lack of work (amongst many other things).

So this is good.

I asked if he thought I should have realized that on my own and given him more work, or whether it was up to him to alert me. He said it was my job to monitor his workload and he figured if all the work was done he was free to leave or take a long lunch.

It's YOUR job to make sure people's workload is full, not his. And in 99.999% of the cases no one will EVER come to you and ask for more work.

I suggested that as a professional, he had the responsibility to point out if he needed work to do, and also I was not happy about the casualness of his work effort.

You are waving your dick now.....not smart or cool

For no apparent reason either. As long as his work is done, what does it matter?

This is a such a outdated/old fashioned attitude that SO many people in the 40s+ have

He shrugged and said he wouldn't do it any more and made a point to say he did not want this held against him since it was the first time I had brought it up. Basically "you never said NOT to leave early, or take a long lunch, or that I was supposed to say I needed more work, so how was I to know?"

And I thought that was BS excuse-making and said we could talk more about it next week..

He was right. It's your job to watch your people and bring it up if they do something wrong.

Clearly you haven't been watching him and now that you decide to watch him it's a problem?

Come on now.

This is a problem with YOU

Should I take the guy at his word that he really didn't think any of that was wrong and I was supposed to be watching over his shoulder all the time so I could jump in? I think the only thing I will add to the conversation is that he has damaged his reputation with me, I can't pretend that never happened, and then list 100 other things he should never do so he can't say I never told him, for example, not to steal from the company or run a side business on company time.

Are you one of those "can't live without a problem, if there isn't one, create it" type of people?

Sounds like it.

But I already know what will happen next.......and no you did not boost his morale and expect his "commitment"/outlook for this company to suffer.

Remember, 99.9999% of people cannot work 8 hours straight in an office environment. If you get 4-6 hours of work out of a person, you are doing good.

Ease up a bit, if he is doing his work what's the big deal if he gains extra freedom/time and connivance. To many employees that is a HUGE perk and does amazing things to morale.

IMO you have all the traits of a bad manager (and this is very wide spread in Business). There is TONS of businesses out there that are NOT managed AT ALL.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

He is efficient - he does not care about MORE money or more work - he is happy with his pay and his level of effort. Huge group of society is just happy at there level and treat work as work and do not live for it.

These people are the backbone of every good business. Do you really want the up & comer begging for raises & promotions every year or have a guy like this who has mastered his work, does a great job, and never works more than 8hrs a day and is highly efficient.

Its not about punching a clock or logging ass time in your seat - its about the job he does. If he does his job & does it well, then fuck off, and leave him alone.

Go bother the under performer or the slacker who logs OT because there slow and taking advantage of the OT pay policy.

 

[rudeguy]

It's a bad thing because the employee doesn't bother to communicate with his manager and assumes he can just do whatever he wants to do. I bet if the employee had talked w/ the OP about him finishing his work quicker and asked if he could take longer lunches, or something, they could find a middle ground to it all.

It sounds like there is very poor communication in the company which is always a bad thing. The employees job is to do, not to manage. The manager's job is to manage, which was not done.

 

[Rakehellion]

How's the quality of his work? As someone who employs people I don't give a damn how they do it or how short they work as long as the end result is high quality work that is on time.

Edit: and really, there is zero reason to arbitrarily keep a human being for 8 hours in an office if he can complete that work in 7 hours with the same level of quality. At that point it is up to the manager to assign more work (and possibly more pay) or just let them go ahead and reap the rewards of their efficiency and experience.

This.

 

[Wonderful Pork]

This is basically the Office Space scenario. If he busts his butt 8 hours per day and the company sells a few more widgets he doesn't get anything out of it. Additionally, since he is salaried and may have to work EXTRA to meet the new demands he still doesn't get anything more out of it (putting aside the no-OT thing for a moment).

Until you started monitoring his hours you were happy with his output - this could have been going on for the last 2.5 years. If you had no problems with his previous work product regardless of hours worked per year then I wouldn't hold it against him. He was happy and you were happy - you got exactly the work you assigned and paid him for. Accounting for worker efficiency is the managers job.

With that said, I would watch out at YOUR next review because you could have squeezed some more out of your direct reports!

 

[Yreka]

I can relate to the employee.

I generally work faster and do more work than others. Give me and someone else the same workload and I will get it done sooner than expected.

Why take this as a bad thing? Why not challenge him? Sit down with him and see if he is up for a new project. See if he wants some more responsibility. Challenge the guy, don't penalize him for being a fast worker.

What's different about him taking a long lunch and someone neffing or cruising facebook? I would rather have someone that likes to be busy than someone who is good at wasting time.

I rather agree with this as well.. I am also a salaried "professional". I tend to look at it like I am paid to get the job done regardless of time within reason.. Say +/- 5hrs per week just to throw it out there.. Some weeks it may be 35hrs worked, some it may be 45hrs.

There should defiantly be a threshold however, if I were only putting in even 35 or so I would probably look at other ways to contribute.

The problem from my perspective is when you have a manager that only occasionally engaged in what you do, it seems like only the -40 hour weeks get noticed. The 40+ is just expected

He could have worked 10 hours the day before he worked 7 for example.

Just food for thought. Maybe you can align on expectations, maybe you give him discretion on 35-40 hrs & if he has 40-45 hrs of work you expect him to put it in without question.
(this is all assuming you are generally happy with his work output aside from the time issue)

If the job is such where you want him tracked more closely, maybe it makes sense to make the position hourly?