yikes.. the iOS experience

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TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
91
Huh? Is this some sort of trick question, JD Powers release customer satisfaction numbers and the iPhone had the highest customer satisfaction of any phone. But don't worry the study isn't valid because iPhone owners only like their phones so much because they're brain washed idiot fan boys. Where as if the Motorola Droid had been #1 on this list it would have been because Android's CLEARLY better than an iPhone.

Either way iPhone loses here.

Only one kind of user uses an Apple made phone, an iPhone user.

But, HTC makes WinMo, Android and dumb phones, just like almost every other manufacturer. If there was another survey specifically asking people what OS they have, and how much they like it, then that would be a different scenario.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,210
2,552
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Not really. For the people who don't want to bother with customizing and tinkering, Android works just fine. For the people who do want to customize and tinker, Android is a little better and a little simpler. Add that up and you get, on the whole, a better smartphone OS; it serves both the tinkering and non-tinkering sections of the market very well.

It doesn't matter how difficult jailbreaking an iPhone is. It is possible. Jailbreaking also allows a high level of customization for the iPhone and there are 3rd party apps that add a lot of functionality that is not "possible" on a stock iPhone.

Many proponents of Android always tout the customizations available on the iPhone and now you're saying to expect instabilities when doing so. Which is strange because that'd be an argument against Android customization if it makes my phone less stable. This makes zero sense.

My phone is primarily a communications device. That is, and always will be, priority number one. That's why a locked down OS makes more sense in the mobile space. I have JB'ed my old 2G iPhone but the iPhone 4 provides enough functionality that I haven't bothered. I have had apps crash on the iPhone 4 but I haven't had to restart the iPhone 4 due to stability issues *knock on wood*. I am not going to modify it if that means I get stability issues. And I'd say the same if I was using an Android phone. That is the type of user I am and not indicative of Android users as a whole or anyone else.

When I say a little better and a little simpler to "customize and tinker" I'm referring mainly to the fact that most Android phones don't have to be separated from a program like iTunes in order to install an app not found in the manufacturer's app store. Jailbreaking an iPhone 4 gets harder and harder with each little revision of iOS.

Cydia is what one would use when downloading apps for a jailbroken iPhone. It's extremely simple to use. A user would have to be totally inept not be able to use Cydia.

You guys can't have it both ways. A lot of Android fans criticize iTunes, which IMHO is slow and sometimes a pain in the rear to use, and now you're criticizing a JB'ed iPhone because you need to get the apps from a place other than iTunes.

The fact of the matter is that iOS does have a high level of customization. Android is better in that regards due to less lockdown. Both jailbreaking and rooting Android can introduce instabilities and unsigned 3rd party apps can introduce bugs or compromise security. At this point, I don't think Android anyone who is objective can label Android as being that much better than iOS. On the whole, I'd say both are on equal footing with each OS having strengths and weaknesses.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Huh? Is this some sort of trick question, JD Powers release customer satisfaction numbers and the iPhone had the highest customer satisfaction of any phone. But don't worry the study isn't valid because iPhone owners only like their phones so much because they're brain washed idiot fan boys. Where as if the Motorola Droid had been #1 on this list it would have been because Android's CLEARLY better than an iPhone.

Either way iPhone loses here.

just saying that it ranked hardware, not OS's.

2 different things
 

Midwayman

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2000
5,723
325
126
Huh? Is this some sort of trick question, JD Powers release customer satisfaction numbers and the iPhone had the highest customer satisfaction of any phone. But don't worry the study isn't valid because iPhone owners only like their phones so much because they're brain washed idiot fan boys. Where as if the Motorola Droid had been #1 on this list it would have been because Android's CLEARLY better than an iPhone.

Either way iPhone loses here.

I think the real issue with Apple winning is there are some pretty terrible low end android devices. Apple on the other hand offers very little choice. I wonder if the result would be different if only high end android device owners were polled? Not surprising apple wins as-is.
 

coolVariable

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
3,724
0
76
I'm curious what do you find buggy? I've had a D1 for a few months now but just a few weeks ago started to actually use it. So far I haven't encountered anything, not that I noticed any ways. Well except the when it syncs my contacts it'll take the nice high resolution picture I added, sync it to my googles contact and resync it back where it looks horrible. But according to Google this is not a bug, it's a feature and they have zero plans of fixing it. But outside of that I haven't noticed anything. BTW somebody who's employed by Google told me to fix the image problem I simply uncheck the sync contacts option and do all my contact adding/deleting on my phone manually. My actual phone though seems very stable even with me having modded the hell out of it.

Where to start ...
1. Voice actions: don't work with saved contacts (Google's forums are full of complaints).
2. Exchange support: still abysmal.
3. Calendar sync: works 80&#37; of the time ... the other 20% appointments just don't sync. Sorry - a calendar that doesn't work all the time and is reliable is useless.
4. Email vs. Gmail ... WTF?
5. Copy and paste ... had to mention it.
6. Attachments in emails ... yes, I would like to send whatever attachment I want
7. Downloading files from the internet ... yes, I would like to download whatever file I want
etc.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,977
1,178
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Where to start ...
1. Voice actions: don't work with saved contacts (Google's forums are full of complaints).
2. Exchange support: still abysmal.
3. Calendar sync: works 80&#37; of the time ... the other 20% appointments just don't sync. Sorry - a calendar that doesn't work all the time and is reliable is useless.
4. Email vs. Gmail ... WTF?
5. Copy and paste ... had to mention it.
6. Attachments in emails ... yes, I would like to send whatever attachment I want
7. Downloading files from the internet ... yes, I would like to download whatever file I want
etc.

#7 I'm with you, I've never used Exchange on a phone but that definitely sucks for people who need to. My calendar seems to sync well, but then again I don't have much on it lol. #4 I was scratching my head too, the Gmail app is horrible I ended up ditching it and going with k9. If I use their email client for Gmail will I break the interwebs? #5 yes it sucks bad, but then again I'm use to Apples brilliant C+P on the iPhone, after using that all other implementations of this feel shitty. But Androids is shitty all on it's own. #1 what do you mean? I said "call [contact name cell]" and it called her cell, she's in my saved contact. I'm not doubting you here I'm just curious what I'm not able to do here with the voice commands.
 

coolVariable

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
3,724
0
76
#7 I'm with you, I've never used Exchange on a phone but that definitely sucks for people who need to. My calendar seems to sync well, but then again I don't have much on it lol. #4 I was scratching my head too, the Gmail app is horrible I ended up ditching it and going with k9. If I use their email client for Gmail will I break the interwebs? #5 yes it sucks bad, but then again I'm use to Apples brilliant C+P on the iPhone, after using that all other implementations of this feel shitty. But Androids is shitty all on it's own. #1 what do you mean? I said "call [contact name cell]" and it called her cell, she's in my saved contact. I'm not doubting you here I'm just curious what I'm not able to do here with the voice commands.

For some people voice commands work and for others saying "call contact name" results in an internet search for "call contact name" instead of the phone dialing.
Until they fix that ... the voice commands remain useless.
As someone on the Google forums suggested: I can't wait for google to be slapped with a lawsuit because voice dialing isn't working as advertised and "dialing" the phone is illegal in some states while driving/you can kill someone while doing it!

I am personally just fed up that everything google seems to do is "Beta" ie it might work ... or it might not work.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,977
1,178
126
For some people voice commands work and for others saying "call contact name" results in an internet search for "call contact name" instead of the phone dialing.
Until they fix that ... the voice commands remain useless.
As someone on the Google forums suggested: I can't wait for google to be slapped with a lawsuit because voice dialing isn't working as advertised and "dialing" the phone is illegal in some states while driving/you can kill someone while doing it!

I am personally just fed up that everything google seems to do is "Beta" ie it might work ... or it might not work.

Oh, now that you mention it the voice command did that stupid going on the internet to look it up crap on me 3 times last week, I dunno how I forgot that. I know to get bluetooth voice commands I had to install a 3rd party hack, out the box 2.2 wouldn't work with my headset and voice commands. The more I think about things you've mentioned the more I'm seeing that Android still has a good ways to go. But even still I enjoy the OS and bugs aside I'm going to stick with it.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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#7 I'm with you, I've never used Exchange on a phone but that definitely sucks for people who need to. My calendar seems to sync well, but then again I don't have much on it lol. #4 I was scratching my head too, the Gmail app is horrible I ended up ditching it and going with k9. If I use their email client for Gmail will I break the interwebs? #5 yes it sucks bad, but then again I'm use to Apples brilliant C+P on the iPhone, after using that all other implementations of this feel shitty. But Androids is shitty all on it's own. #1 what do you mean? I said "call [contact name cell]" and it called her cell, she's in my saved contact. I'm not doubting you here I'm just curious what I'm not able to do here with the voice commands.

Regarding C+P. Blur and Sense do a good job. I think Google just needs to port some of those features into Android.

I'm actually quite disappointed with 2.2. Many new features were touted like a new push notification system, but the push notifications are barely used except for Gmail and Google Voice. What other program uses push? Sigh.

JIT seems to be the only real improvement, and while tethering came along, most carriers disable that anyway, meaning the 2.1 Wifi Tether for rooted users is just as good.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
It doesn't matter how difficult jailbreaking an iPhone is. It is possible. Jailbreaking also allows a high level of customization for the iPhone and there are 3rd party apps that add a lot of functionality that is not "possible" on a stock iPhone.

Actually, yes, it does matter how difficult it is to jailbreak an iPhone. It matters when any manufacturer locks down their phone and then actively works to keep you from unlocking it. All that will do is drive those who want to modify their phones to other platforms. That's not very good for Apple. At least with Android there's not just one manufacturer making phones and only one carrier for service.

Many proponents of Android always tout the customizations available on the iPhone and now you're saying to expect instabilities when doing so. Which is strange because that'd be an argument against Android customization if it makes my phone less stable. This makes zero sense.

I'm not saying to "expect" instabilities, I'm saying that instability is possible, just like it is with jailbroken iPhones.

Cydia is what one would use when downloading apps for a jailbroken iPhone. It's extremely simple to use. A user would have to be totally inept not be able to use Cydia.

Of course that's easy to do, but getting your iPhone 4 jailbroken so you can use Cydia, etc. is what's not for novices.

You guys can't have it both ways. A lot of Android fans criticize iTunes, which IMHO is slow and sometimes a pain in the rear to use, and now you're criticizing a JB'ed iPhone because you need to get the apps from a place other than iTunes.

Uhh... I never criticized a JB'd iPhone cuz of the need to get the apps from somewhere other than iTunes.

The fact of the matter is that iOS does have a high level of customization. Android is better in that regards due to less lockdown. Both jailbreaking and rooting Android can introduce instabilities and unsigned 3rd party apps can introduce bugs or compromise security. At this point, I don't think Android anyone who is objective can label Android as being that much better than iOS. On the whole, I'd say both are on equal footing with each OS having strengths and weaknesses.

I'll just offer this anecdote:

A friend of mine got an iPhone 4 a couple weeks ago and shortly thereafter we were trying to jailbreak it. His iPhone 4 came with version 4.0.2 of iOS and, from what we read online, the update from 4.0.1 to 4.0.2 was really only about busting existing methods to jailbreak 4.0.1. Everything we tried that we found online about jailbreaking 4.0.2 (which involves going back to 4.0.1) didn't work. So... yesterday we went to the AT&T store and he exchanged it for a Samsung Captivate. It took him minutes to get it rooted and he's been tinkering with it ever since.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,210
2,552
136
Actually, yes, it does matter how difficult it is to jailbreak an iPhone. It matters when any manufacturer locks down their phone and then actively works to keep you from unlocking it. All that will do is drive those who want to modify their phones to other platforms. That's not very good for Apple. At least with Android there's not just one manufacturer making phones and only one carrier for service.

To the end user it doesn't matter. Even those rooting their Androids are not digging into the system. All of that is done by talented hackers. So no, it doesn't matter unless you're the one doing the actual dirty work. Every JB I've done has been relatively simple as an end user.

I'm not saying to "expect" instabilities, I'm saying that instability is possible, just like it is with jailbroken iPhones.
So you agree that rooting a smartphone (same as jailbreaking) makes the device a less stable one and can degrade the primary objective of said device. And I've read enough anecdotal comments in Android threads to know that some of them had to reboot their rooted devices as often as every few days. That is completely unacceptable. Any phone that doesn't work and work without hassle is not a phone I want. I'd wager that the overwhelming majority of end users would agree with me.

Of course that's easy to do, but getting your iPhone 4 jailbroken so you can use Cydia, etc. is what's not for novices.
Novices or the average lay person has no need to jailbreak or root. The only persons who would even consider it is the more tech inclined crowd. You can't have it both ways. The average person doesn't care about rooting or jailbreaking and the tech inclined crowd who would care about it or want to do it would have no problem getting Cydia to work.

Uhh... I never criticized a JB'd iPhone cuz of the need to get the apps from somewhere other than iTunes.
Go re-read what you wrote. It is not the clearest and the only thing I got from it was that you were criticizing JB'ed apps not being available via iTunes. I do understand that this is a forum and sometimes you write things down that may make sense to you but came out in an unclear manner. I've done it myself plenty of times. If you'd like, provide a clarification to your original post.

I'll just offer this anecdote:

A friend of mine got an iPhone 4 a couple weeks ago and shortly thereafter we were trying to jailbreak it. His iPhone 4 came with version 4.0.2 of iOS and, from what we read online, the update from 4.0.1 to 4.0.2 was really only about busting existing methods to jailbreak 4.0.1. Everything we tried that we found online about jailbreaking 4.0.2 (which involves going back to 4.0.1) didn't work. So... yesterday we went to the AT&T store and he exchanged it for a Samsung Captivate. It took him minutes to get it rooted and he's been tinkering with it ever since.
And my counter is that your friend used a ready made method of rooting (again, same as jailbreaking). He didn't do the actual grunt work. iOS 4.0.2 introduced a new baseband that had to be hacked in order to get it. Essentially the free lunch wasn't provided quick enough for you guys. And the guys doing the actual iPhone hacking has said they won't be releasing a jailbreak for 4.0.2 and jumping to 4.1 instead. A hack is already in the works for 4.1.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion and you can dislike the lack of a JB for iOS 4.0.2 but my opinion is you have no grounds for complaint.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
To the end user it doesn't matter. Even those rooting their Androids are not digging into the system. All of that is done by talented hackers. So no, it doesn't matter unless you're the one doing the actual dirty work. Every JB I've done has been relatively simple as an end user.

It does matter when you can't get the iPhone 4 jailbroken but you can easily root a new Android phone. Your experience is nice, but not the rule to which everything else is the exception.

So you agree that rooting a smartphone (same as jailbreaking) makes the device a less stable one and can degrade the primary objective of said device. And I've read enough anecdotal comments in Android threads to know that some of them had to reboot their rooted devices as often as every few days. That is completely unacceptable. Any phone that doesn't work and work without hassle is not a phone I want. I'd wager that the overwhelming majority of end users would agree with me.

Rooting/jailbreaking introduces the risk of instability. That is all that can be said, factually, about any smartphone. Everything else is anecdotal. For what it's worth, some people who jailbreak their iPhone have to start over more often than is acceptable, too.

Avoiding rooting/jailbreaking is the only guaranteed way to ensure work-without-hassle, regardless of phone.

Novices or the average lay person has no need to jailbreak or root. The only persons who would even consider it is the more tech inclined crowd. You can't have it both ways. The average person doesn't care about rooting or jailbreaking and the tech inclined crowd who would care about it or want to do it would have no problem getting Cydia to work.

That's not true at all. I know plenty of people who are not in the least tech savvy but who root/jailbreak their phones regularly. It's important to recognize the distinction between people who look up and follow directions like a recipe in a cookbook and those who get the general idea and take it from there on their own. The former isn't really tech-inclined and is only interested in running an app they heard about or getting some feature that's not enabled. The latter is into it for those reasons and also has a desire to tinker and play for its own sake.

Go re-read what you wrote. It is not the clearest and the only thing I got from it was that you were criticizing JB'ed apps not being available via iTunes. I do understand that this is a forum and sometimes you write things down that may make sense to you but came out in an unclear manner. I've done it myself plenty of times. If you'd like, provide a clarification to your original post.

I was criticizing the need to jailbreak the device to install apps that didn't get the blessing of Steve Jobs.

And my counter is that your friend used a ready made method of rooting (again, same as jailbreaking). He didn't do the actual grunt work. iOS 4.0.2 introduced a new baseband that had to be hacked in order to get it. Essentially the free lunch wasn't provided quick enough for you guys. And the guys doing the actual iPhone hacking has said they won't be releasing a jailbreak for 4.0.2 and jumping to 4.1 instead. A hack is already in the works for 4.1.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion and you can dislike the lack of a JB for iOS 4.0.2 but my opinion is you have no grounds for complaint.

Your opinion is immaterial. It's anecdotal just like my example was. It neither proves nor disproves anything.
 

akugami

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2005
6,210
2,552
136
It does matter when you can't get the iPhone 4 jailbroken but you can easily root a new Android phone. Your experience is nice, but not the rule to which everything else is the exception.

I'll say it again. You are not doing the actual grunt work required for the jailbreak/rooting. You're complaining about not getting your free lunch quick enough.

Rooting/jailbreaking introduces the risk of instability. That is all that can be said, factually, about any smartphone. Everything else is anecdotal. For what it's worth, some people who jailbreak their iPhone have to start over more often than is acceptable, too.

Avoiding rooting/jailbreaking is the only guaranteed way to ensure work-without-hassle, regardless of phone.

That's not true at all. I know plenty of people who are not in the least tech savvy but who root/jailbreak their phones regularly. It's important to recognize the distinction between people who look up and follow directions like a recipe in a cookbook and those who get the general idea and take it from there on their own. The former isn't really tech-inclined and is only interested in running an app they heard about or getting some feature that's not enabled. The latter is into it for those reasons and also has a desire to tinker and play for its own sake.
The smart phone still has to be a phone. I don't want a phone that can crash on me. The primary task of a phone is to make and receive phone calls. A device that is more prone to instabilities and crashing due to a JB or rooting is unacceptable to me. Go ask the average layperson and they're likely to tell you the same thing. The iPhone 4, and current Android phones, are full featured enough that only the techy crowd wants/needs to tinker with it.

You're making a big deal out of the difficulty or lack of a jailbreak when 99&#37; of the users don't need it. You bring in your friend and how he returned his iPhone because of a lack of jailbreaking but why did he want to jailbreak his phone? What does a rooted Android phone gain him that the stock iPhone did not have? I'd say to the average person, very very little is gained by a jailbroken or rooted phone except the ability to run unsigned (read pirated) apps.

I am not accusing you or your friend of pirating software. I'm just saying that the average person has no need or use for a jailbreak or rooting. They are not technically savvy enough to even understand why they would want a jailbroken or rooted phone. Likely they did so at the behest of one of their more tech savvy friends.

I was criticizing the need to jailbreak the device to install apps that didn't get the blessing of Steve Jobs.
Then you need to clarify your statements because they were ambiguous. That's not my fault. And Apple is not the only phone company to lock down their phones. Motorola is putting a tighter grip on their phones as well and I'd wager that some of the other companies will do so.

Your opinion is immaterial. It's anecdotal just like my example was. It neither proves nor disproves anything.
Wow. Are you serious. The jackassery in the bolded part in this last comment is beyond words. Your opinion is that my opinion is worthless? Thanks for being a party to non-intelligent debate. All I was saying is that you're complaining about the lack of a free lunch which is not cool in my book. But whatever man. Go keep on complaining that someone else isn't working hard enough for you when they're giving you a free product.


EDIT:

You can reply or not. I'm not going to bother. You're set in your opinion and I'm not going to change them. I don't mind discussing things with people with a different opinion but when you start trashing my opinion and calling it worthless then I leave the discussion. You can disagree with my opinion and I have zero problems with that but to call my opinion worthless? Wow. Just Wow.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
I'll say it again. You are not doing the actual grunt work required for the jailbreak/rooting. You're complaining about not getting your free lunch quick enough.

Why does Apple release updates to iOS that do nothing more than prevent the latest jailbreak method(s)?

The smart phone still has to be a phone. I don't want a phone that can crash on me. The primary task of a phone is to make and receive phone calls. A device that is more prone to instabilities and crashing due to a JB or rooting is unacceptable to me. Go ask the average layperson and they're likely to tell you the same thing. The iPhone 4, and current Android phones, are full featured enough that only the techy crowd wants/needs to tinker with it.

You're making a big deal out of the difficulty or lack of a jailbreak when 99&#37; of the users don't need it. You bring in your friend and how he returned his iPhone because of a lack of jailbreaking but why did he want to jailbreak his phone? What does a rooted Android phone gain him that the stock iPhone did not have? I'd say to the average person, very very little is gained by a jailbroken or rooted phone except the ability to run unsigned (read pirated) apps.

This isn't about what users "need", it's about what users "want". Do a lot of people "need" to jailbreak or root their phones? Probably not, but that doesn't mean only 1% of them do it.

I am not accusing you or your friend of pirating software. I'm just saying that the average person has no need or use for a jailbreak or rooting. They are not technically savvy enough to even understand why they would want a jailbroken or rooted phone. Likely they did so at the behest of one of their more tech savvy friends.

You're awfully assertive on what the "average person" needs/wants. Where did you find these statistics/data?

Then you need to clarify your statements because they were ambiguous. That's not my fault. And Apple is not the only phone company to lock down their phones. Motorola is putting a tighter grip on their phones as well and I'd wager that some of the other companies will do so.

What was ambiguous? What specific statement of mine was ambiguous? Yes, more companies than Apple lock down their phones, but that was never really the point. If you like iOS you can only get it from one company on one device and use it on only one carrier's network (I'll believe Verizon's iPhone exists only when I see it). If you like Android you have multiple devices available from multiple companies through multiple carriers.

Wow. Are you serious. The jackassery in the bolded part in this last comment is beyond words. Your opinion is that my opinion is worthless? Thanks for being a party to non-intelligent debate. All I was saying is that you're complaining about the lack of a free lunch which is not cool in my book. But whatever man. Go keep on complaining that someone else isn't working hard enough for you when they're giving you a free product.


EDIT:

You can reply or not. I'm not going to bother. You're set in your opinion and I'm not going to change them. I don't mind discussing things with people with a different opinion but when you start trashing my opinion and calling it worthless then I leave the discussion. You can disagree with my opinion and I have zero problems with that but to call my opinion worthless? Wow. Just Wow.

:rolleyes: Get a grip, and grow up.
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
45
91
Although other updates in the past have had a side-effect of also making it harder to Jailbreak, I think that the update you are referring to is 4.0.1 or 4.0.2 or something. When jailbreak.me came out, it used a PDF EXPLOIT to allow you to JB the device, on the device. So, yes although the perhaps first and only example of this EXPLOIT was with JBing, it was closed because it was a security problem. Shutting down JBers was at best, a bonus.
 

coolVariable

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
3,724
0
76
Regarding C+P. Blur and Sense do a good job. I think Google just needs to port some of those features into Android.

I'm actually quite disappointed with 2.2. Many new features were touted like a new push notification system, but the push notifications are barely used except for Gmail and Google Voice. What other program uses push? Sigh.

JIT seems to be the only real improvement, and while tethering came along, most carriers disable that anyway, meaning the 2.1 Wifi Tether for rooted users is just as good.

It would be nice if all these frontends were just a "program" that you could install. Having to root/install ROMs really is not much better than jailbreaking/hacking the iPhone (and the iPhone's ease to factory restore just KILLS android).
And (if you ask me) android is currently getting slaughtered by the lack of updates on 99&#37; of the phones because they have one of these stupid frontends.

I was excited about JIT but did not notice any speed difference - though, I was happy with the speed of 2.1 to begin with.
2.2 Wifi tether is nice, since at least some phones got tethering without the need to root ... always nice when you can do things without root/jailbreak.

@QueBert: the lack of (working) voice commands is one of the most annoying "features" on android IMO. The current version is just useless and I have been severely tempted multiple times to chuck my N1 out the window while driving because it doesn't do voice dialing.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,977
1,178
126
Actually, yes, it does matter how difficult it is to jailbreak an iPhone. It matters when any manufacturer locks down their phone and then actively works to keep you from unlocking it. All that will do is drive those who want to modify their phones to other platforms. That's not very good for Apple. At least with Android there's not just one manufacturer making phones and only one carrier for service.

If you have 10 different Android you probably have 10 different locked bootloaders, which is not a good thing and means good luck on picking the phone that gets it's bootloader cracked 1st. With iPhones you have the entire community working on hacking 1 phone. Even if Apple releases updates that need to hacked again, with Android you have phones that need specially made versions of roms if you plan to use an aftermarket one. I use UD8, which isn't avilable for the Droid X or any other phone with a locked bootloader. BD may or may not release a DX rom, but for now if I had a DX I'd be screwed. If BD decides to release a Samsung Epic rom DX owners are screwed, and likewise for Epic owners if he released a DX rom.The iPhone community is unified because they're all running the same OS. Android is fragmented so you will have different groups working on different phones. I don't know you can possibly think multiple devices that have to hacked differently is a better thing. Hell UD9 would have been out already but the author had to spend extra time to make sure it works properly on all different Android handsets.
 
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zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
If you have 10 different Android you probably have 10 different locked bootloaders, which is not a good thing and means good luck on picking the phone that gets it's bootloader cracked 1st. With iPhones you have the entire community working on hacking 1 phone. Even if Apple releases updates that need to hacked again, with Android you have phones that need specially made versions of roms if you plan to use an aftermarket one. I use UD8, which isn't avilable for the Droid X or any other phone with a locked bootloader. BD may or may not release a DX rom, but for now if I had a DX I'd be screwed. If BD decides to release a Samsung Epic rom DX owners are screwed, and likewise for Epic owners if he released a DX rom.The iPhone community is unified because they're all running the same OS. Android is fragmented so you will have different groups working on different phones. I don't know you can possibly think multiple devices that have to hacked differently is a better thing. Hell UD9 would have been out already but the author had to spend extra time to make sure it works properly on all different Android handsets.

Your argument is predicated on the assumption that many working on 1 device is automatically better than many working on many devices. That's hardly a factual matter.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
If you have 10 different Android you probably have 10 different locked bootloaders, which is not a good thing and means good luck on picking the phone that gets it's bootloader cracked 1st. With iPhones you have the entire community working on hacking 1 phone. Even if Apple releases updates that need to hacked again, with Android you have phones that need specially made versions of roms if you plan to use an aftermarket one. I use UD8, which isn't avilable for the Droid X or any other phone with a locked bootloader. BD may or may not release a DX rom, but for now if I had a DX I'd be screwed. If BD decides to release a Samsung Epic rom DX owners are screwed, and likewise for Epic owners if he released a DX rom.The iPhone community is unified because they're all running the same OS. Android is fragmented so you will have different groups working on different phones. I don't know you can possibly think multiple devices that have to hacked differently is a better thing. Hell UD9 would have been out already but the author had to spend extra time to make sure it works properly on all different Android handsets.

Most Android phones are being rooted before they are officially released. Even the new updates are being cracked before they go live.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,977
1,178
126
Most Android phones are being rooted before they are officially released. Even the new updates are being cracked before they go live.

Rooted and being able to install custom roms are 2 different things, people with Droid X's, even rooted can't install Ultimate Droid 8 or Seriously Stunning. They will require custom made roms, which the authors of the roms may or may not create.
 
Mar 15, 2003
12,668
103
106
didn't expect this to go on for so long! Plants vs. zombies is awesome, my wife only uses her droid for calls now (and wants a blackberry now that I have one and brag about multiple days of standby battery life).. I put my zune on ebay and will put the spoils towards an iPod of my own... And my own droid is only really used for tethering and web browsing, it kinda sucks as a phone, media player, or fun device.. I think I'm going back to 1998 - blackberry for my day to day phone, iPod for fun/apps.
 

Pliablemoose

Lifer
Oct 11, 1999
25,195
0
56
didn't expect this to go on for so long! Plants vs. zombies is awesome, my wife only uses her droid for calls now (and wants a blackberry now that I have one and brag about multiple days of standby battery life).. I put my zune on ebay and will put the spoils towards an iPod of my own... And my own droid is only really used for tethering and web browsing, it kinda sucks as a phone, media player, or fun device.. I think I'm going back to 1998 - blackberry for my day to day phone, iPod for fun/apps.

Frying my brain on P VS Z all day :) (on an iPad)
 

coolVariable

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
3,724
0
76
Your argument is predicated on the assumption that many working on 1 device is automatically better than many working on many devices. That's hardly a factual matter.

... and with Android you have devices with nobody/nobody talented/very few talented people working on rooting/jailbreaking.
Saying that the rooting/jailbreaking situation is better on android than on the iphone is the dumbest thing I have heard in this thread! Android phone manufacturers and even Google are doing exactly the same thing as Apple to prevent people from rooting!!!
Look at morotrola ... it took months to get their initial phones rooted! Look at the Android jesus phone, the NExus One: the latest android update does NOTHING but prevent software rooting (forcing people to unlock the bootloader and TOTALLY VOID THEIR WARRANTY!!!). Last I checked, you could jailbreak the iPhone without irrevocably voiding you warranty!
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
... and with Android you have devices with nobody/nobody talented/very few talented people working on rooting/jailbreaking.

Says who?

Look at morotrola ... it took months to get their initial phones rooted!

Not sure who "Morotrola" is.

Look at the Android jesus phone, the NExus One:

The Nexus One is not, and has never been, the "jesus phone" for Android. If anything, the first Motorola Droid was.

Last I checked, you could jailbreak the iPhone without irrevocably voiding you warranty!

That doesn't happen with every manufacturer of Android devices.

The fact remains that iOS in a smartphone is an Apple-only and AT&T-only proposition. I do not want a part of anything that exclusive. I view the upcoming Windows Phone 7 in the same way. The notion that such exclusivity and control over the entire environment is required for a good smartphone experience is completely absurd.
 
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coolVariable

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
3,724
0
76
Says who?

Says the forums for those devices.
Not sure who "Morotrola" is.

It is a giant robot from Japan that is going to ram its mechanical fist in your butt.

The Nexus One is not, and has never been, the "jesus phone" for Android. If anything, the first Motorola Droid was.

The apostels will disagree with you on that.
The N1 is also the official devloper phone and supposedly the one that is the most "open" and supposed to get all the updates because it is "stock android".
Only none of those is true. The jailbreaking/rooting situation on the N1 is worse than the iPhone and I am sure people with an N1 that are waiting for carrier approval of some android OS update (e.g. 2.2) are ready to rip Google a new one for their "stock" android experience.

That doesn't happen with every manufacturer of Android devices.

The fact remains that iOS in a smartphone is an Apple-only and AT&T-only proposition. I do not want a part of anything that exclusive. I view the upcoming Windows Phone 7 in the same way. The notion that such exclusivity and control over the entire environment is required for a good smartphone experience is completely absurd.

Are you even trying to make any sense here?
You can jailbreak the iPhone and restore it to factory ... root an android phone and you void the warranty (see, as an example, the "open" Nexus One)