Yet Another Help me Choose an HDTV Thread **ANOTHER UPDATE WITH PROBLEM**

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Ok, so your old receiver was designed to work with a passive sub. It has amplifiers built in to power your speakers and an amplifier to power your unpowered subwoofer.

If you were to just the subwoofer pre-out (the RCA connection on your new receiver) to an analog input on the old receiver, the old receiver will get the subwoofer signal. If the passive subwoofer is connected up to your old receiver, it should then amplify that signal and send it to the passive subwoofer.

In theory this should work, but you might run into some issues? It's certainly worth a shot as it's the cheapest option.

Intriguing. I may give this a shot.

I watched A Fistfull of Dollars on HDNET last night and I was fine with the sound as is, so I'm not going to die if I don't get this sorted out right away. As an audio guy, I bet you hate me right now. :laugh:

KT

Nope, I'm a pretty mellow guy

I don't remember what speakers you said you were using though, so you may or may not be missing out on a lot. If the speakers on their own have reasonable bass, then this isn't a huge deal. If they're really small speakers that only get down to 100Hz or something, then you ARE missing a lot.

My speakers are crap, just part of my old HTiB. Would something like this be a better option for me, or are those not really any better? I could see paying $350ish for a speaker package, but everything else I see above the ones I linked start at $600 and that just seems way too high for me.

KT

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Well before you decide on buying anything else, I'd recommend going out and doing some listening at some stores.

If you bring some demo material that you're familiar with and don't hear a difference between some $100 speakers and some $1000 speakers, then be content with your current stuff.

It's going to depend person to person how much difference you notice. Whether it makes sense or not to upgrade the speakers is also going to be a personal choice. Even if you do hear a difference between $100 speakers and $300-$400 speakers, it's up to you whether or not that difference is worth the price.

If you do decide to upgrade, it might make sense to just do the front three speakers vs. a whole set. Sometimes the 5.0 or 5.1 sets are a better deal overall though.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Well before you decide on buying anything else, I'd recommend going out and doing some listening at some stores.

If you bring some demo material that you're familiar with and don't hear a difference between some $100 speakers and some $1000 speakers, then be content with your current stuff.

It's going to depend person to person how much difference you notice. Whether it makes sense or not to upgrade the speakers is also going to be a personal choice. Even if you do hear a difference between $100 speakers and $300-$400 speakers, it's up to you whether or not that difference is worth the price.

If you do decide to upgrade, it might make sense to just do the front three speakers vs. a whole set. Sometimes the 5.0 or 5.1 sets are a better deal overall though.

Very good call. I'm out of town for a few days starting tomorrow, so when I get back I'll grab my Kill Bill Blu-rays and go check out some speakers to see if I can tell the difference between the different sets. Thanks a tonne for all of the advice, it's been very helpful and enlightening! :beer:

KT

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Good.

Some things to watch out for when auditioning - Louder almost always sounds better, so when comparing two different speakers, you'll want to be listening at the same sound level. That might mean a different volume setting on the receiver for two different speakers.

For example, if one speaker has a sensitivity of 90dB/W at one meter and another is only 85dB/W at one meter, the 90dB one is going to be louder at a given volume setting on the receiver driving them.

This makes auditioning different speakers tricky unless there's some sort of adjustment going on to level match the playback of both speaker sets so you can judge them on the sound quality vs. the volume difference.

There are other issues that come into play when auditioning speakers (like whether the same receiver / amp is being used, placement issues, etc.), but I think the first step is just seeing if you hear the differences at all. If that's happening, you can try to get as many of the variables controlled so you can make a more informed decision.

For auditioning, I would recommend bringing some music too if possible.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Good.

Some things to watch out for when auditioning - Louder almost always sounds better, so when comparing two different speakers, you'll want to be listening at the same sound level. That might mean a different volume setting on the receiver for two different speakers.

For example, if one speaker has a sensitivity of 90dB/W at one meter and another is only 85dB/W at one meter, the 90dB one is going to be louder at a given volume setting on the receiver driving them.

This makes auditioning different speakers tricky unless there's some sort of adjustment going on to level match the playback of both speaker sets so you can judge them on the sound quality vs. the volume difference.

There are other issues that come into play when auditioning speakers (like whether the same receiver / amp is being used, placement issues, etc.), but I think the first step is just seeing if you hear the differences at all. If that's happening, you can try to get as many of the variables controlled so you can make a more informed decision.

For auditioning, I would recommend bringing some music too if possible.

Awesome, thanks. I never listen to music through speakers, only headphones, but I guess I can dig up a CD to bring with me for testing purposes.

KT

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I found that I ended up listening to a lot more music once I had nicer speakers. I don't know if you'll have the same thing happen to you though.

I bought my system primarily for movies, but I'd estimate that 80% of the time that I'm using it, it's on music duty now.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I found that I ended up listening to a lot more music once I had nicer speakers. I don't know if you'll have the same thing happen to you though.

I bought my system primarily for movies, but I'd estimate that 80% of the time that I'm using it, it's on music duty now.

We shall see. I guess if I can figure out how to easily put music on my PS3 for playing I may do it more, but swapping in one CD at a time is not something I can picture myself doing very often.

KT

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I found that I ended up listening to a lot more music once I had nicer speakers. I don't know if you'll have the same thing happen to you though.

I bought my system primarily for movies, but I'd estimate that 80% of the time that I'm using it, it's on music duty now.

We shall see. I guess if I can figure out how to easily put music on my PS3 for playing I may do it more, but swapping in one CD at a time is not something I can picture myself doing very often.

KT

PS3 Media Server & streaming
Ever since I upgraded my speakers, I've been moving my collection over to FLAC from mp3, because the difference is more apparent. The first ones up were my Cake albums, and they're now even more enjoyable.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I found that I ended up listening to a lot more music once I had nicer speakers. I don't know if you'll have the same thing happen to you though.

I bought my system primarily for movies, but I'd estimate that 80% of the time that I'm using it, it's on music duty now.

We shall see. I guess if I can figure out how to easily put music on my PS3 for playing I may do it more, but swapping in one CD at a time is not something I can picture myself doing very often.

KT

PS3 Media Server & streaming
Ever since I upgraded my speakers, I've been moving my collection over to FLAC from mp3, because the difference is more apparent. The first ones up were my Cake albums, and they're now even more enjoyable.

Hmm, I'll have to look into the Media Server thing, thanks. I have not really investigated much on PS3, I really just use it to watch BDs and DVDs.

:music:Meanwhile, Rick James... :music:

KT

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Hmm, I'll have to look into the Media Server thing, thanks. I have not really investigated much on PS3, I really just use it to watch BDs and DVDs.

:music:Meanwhile, Rick James... :music:

KT

PS3MS is really simple to use, just install it, then go to the music/video/pics on the XMB, select the server, and navigate your drive

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Hmm, I'll have to look into the Media Server thing, thanks. I have not really investigated much on PS3, I really just use it to watch BDs and DVDs.

:music:Meanwhile, Rick James... :music:

KT

PS3MS is really simple to use, just install it, then go to the music/video/pics on the XMB, select the server, and navigate your drive

Ok, I think that makes sense. I'll have to look it up (XMB?).

Thanks man! :beer:

KT

 

[Boobs McGee]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Hmm, I'll have to look into the Media Server thing, thanks. I have not really investigated much on PS3, I really just use it to watch BDs and DVDs.

:music:Meanwhile, Rick James... :music:

KT

PS3MS is really simple to use, just install it, then go to the music/video/pics on the XMB, select the server, and navigate your drive

Ok, I think that makes sense. I'll have to look it up (XMB?).

Thanks man! :beer:

KT

The XMB is the GUI the PS3 uses. PS3MS is pretty much the best app to get your media to your ps3 right now. Definately give it a shot.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: Boobs McGee

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: KeithTalent
Hmm, I'll have to look into the Media Server thing, thanks. I have not really investigated much on PS3, I really just use it to watch BDs and DVDs.

:music:Meanwhile, Rick James... :music:

KT

PS3MS is really simple to use, just install it, then go to the music/video/pics on the XMB, select the server, and navigate your drive

Ok, I think that makes sense. I'll have to look it up (XMB?).

Thanks man! :beer:

KT

The XMB is the GUI the PS3 uses. PS3MS is pretty much the best app to get your media to your ps3 right now. Definately give it a shot.

It looks like I will have to get a router and set up a network for this? Sounds like a hassle, but maybe I just need to find more information on it.

Would something like this router work well for a w wireless setup? Not really sure what I am doing here.

KT

 

[Muadib]

Are you saying that your PS3 isn't networked at all?

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: Muadib
Are you saying that your PS3 isn't networked at all?

That's correct. So would a router like I linked above work to get this up and running?

Also, I'm still having a couple of small, niggling issues with getting surround sound from the PS3 using HDMI, but I am going to try something out when I get home.

KT

 

[Muadib]

As long as you have broadband, then yes that router will work, but since the PS3 doesn't support 802.11n, you could get a cheaper 802.11g if you wanted. You would have better results if you ran a cable to the PS3 instead of going wireless.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: Muadib
As long as you have broadband, then yes that router will work, but since the PS3 doesn't support 802.11n, you could get a cheaper 802.11g if you wanted. You would have better results if you ran a cable to the PS3 instead of going wireless.

I'm on 20 Mbps fibre, but there is no outlet close to my PS3, so I think it may be best to go wireless. Will it have that great of an impact? I will not be gaming online from the PS3, so I'm not concerned about that, I would mainly just use it for moving files from my PC to my PS3.

KT

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: Muadib
As long as you have broadband, then yes that router will work, but since the PS3 doesn't support 802.11n, you could get a cheaper 802.11g if you wanted. You would have better results if you ran a cable to the PS3 instead of going wireless.

I'm on 20 Mbps fibre, but there is no outlet close to my PS3, so I think it may be best to go wireless. Will it have that great of an impact? I will not be gaming online from the PS3, so I'm not concerned about that, I would mainly just use it for moving files from my PC to my PS3.

KT

It depends on how far away your PS3 will be from your router, and what type of files you want to stream. The further away the PS3 is from the router, the lower your throughput speeds will be. Also keep in mind that 802.11g operates in the 2.4 GHz band, and can suffer interference from other devices like cordless phones & microwave ovens that also operate in that band.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: Muadib
As long as you have broadband, then yes that router will work, but since the PS3 doesn't support 802.11n, you could get a cheaper 802.11g if you wanted. You would have better results if you ran a cable to the PS3 instead of going wireless.

I'm on 20 Mbps fibre, but there is no outlet close to my PS3, so I think it may be best to go wireless. Will it have that great of an impact? I will not be gaming online from the PS3, so I'm not concerned about that, I would mainly just use it for moving files from my PC to my PS3.

KT

It depends on how far away your PS3 will be from your router, and what type of files you want to stream. The further away the PS3 is from the router, the lower your throughput speeds will be. Also keep in mind that 802.11g operates in the 2.4 GHz band, and can suffer interference from other devices like cordless phones & microwave ovens that also operate in that band.

Well that sounds annoying. Hmm, maybe I will try to figure something else out, but I don't want a massive cord going through the centre of my living room.

KT

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: Muadib
As long as you have broadband, then yes that router will work, but since the PS3 doesn't support 802.11n, you could get a cheaper 802.11g if you wanted. You would have better results if you ran a cable to the PS3 instead of going wireless.

I'm on 20 Mbps fibre, but there is no outlet close to my PS3, so I think it may be best to go wireless. Will it have that great of an impact? I will not be gaming online from the PS3, so I'm not concerned about that, I would mainly just use it for moving files from my PC to my PS3.

KT

It depends on how far away your PS3 will be from your router, and what type of files you want to stream. The further away the PS3 is from the router, the lower your throughput speeds will be. Also keep in mind that 802.11g operates in the 2.4 GHz band, and can suffer interference from other devices like cordless phones & microwave ovens that also operate in that band.

Well that sounds annoying. Hmm, maybe I will try to figure something else out, but I don't want a massive cord going through the centre of my living room.

KT

You could run it along the walls.

Another option would be a power line adapter, like this. You would still need a router if you don't have one with your fiber setup, but you would have much better performance.

 

[KeithTalent]

I ended up going wireless and holy freaking crap the PS3 MS is so freaking awesome! I love it! It does not recognize some of my files (I'll have to figure that out somehow), but everything else works flawlessly.

The guy that made that thing should win some sort of prize. :beer:

KT

Edit: by the way, is there a reason why my receiver does not always use all 5 speakers? Sometimes, when playing certain things, it only uses the two side, tower speakers and it does not sound anywhere near as good.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

When it's not using all the speakers, what kind of files are you playing? Something like music is usually just 2 channel, so your receiver will play it back on just two speakers (as intended). Depending on how much of a purist you are, you can leave it to just play back on the two speakers, or you could enable some sort of surround processing (like setting the receiver to Dolby Prologic II or whatever sounds best to you) and it will take a stereo signal and process it to play back on all speakers.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
When it's not using all the speakers, what kind of files are you playing? Something like music is usually just 2 channel, so your receiver will play it back on just two speakers (as intended). Depending on how much of a purist you are, you can leave it to just play back on the two speakers, or you could enable some sort of surround processing (like setting the receiver to Dolby Prologic II or whatever sounds best to you) and it will take a stereo signal and process it to play back on all speakers.

The first stuff was music, then the second thing I tried was a musical concert I had downloaded. It was somewhat annoying, but I will try to figure out the processing thing to see if it will work. I obviously have no clue how this stuff works, it seems strange to me that sound would not come out of all of the speakers. I get that it may not sound as good, but just getting sound of the speakers seems like it should be normal.

KT

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
When it's not using all the speakers, what kind of files are you playing? Something like music is usually just 2 channel, so your receiver will play it back on just two speakers (as intended). Depending on how much of a purist you are, you can leave it to just play back on the two speakers, or you could enable some sort of surround processing (like setting the receiver to Dolby Prologic II or whatever sounds best to you) and it will take a stereo signal and process it to play back on all speakers.

The first stuff was music, then the second thing I tried was a musical concert I had downloaded. It was somewhat annoying, but I will try to figure out the processing thing to see if it will work. I obviously have no clue how this stuff works, it seems strange to me that sound would not come out of all of the speakers. I get that it may not sound as good, but just getting sound of the speakers seems like it should be normal.

KT

Well it sounds like there's nothing wrong.

The "sound doesn't come out all my speakers" is in the same boat as "the movie doesn't fill up my whole screen". Just like movies aren't all filmed in a 16:9 aspect ratio to fill your whole screen, sound isn't always recorded in 5.1 (or higher) to use all your speakers.

With video, you can choose to watch it in the original aspect ratio as intended (and get black bars) or you can choose to modify it somehow to fill up your whole screen (stretching / zooming / etc.)

With a stereo audio source, you can listen to it as intended (2.0 or 2.1) or you can choose to modify it by applying surround processing (Dolby Prologic II, DTS Neo:6, Theater modes, etc.)

In both these cases, it's a personal choice whether you want to "give up" some of your screen space or speakers to experience the original material or if you want to use up your whole screen / sound system by modifying the video / sound somehow. There are significant compromises made in both these cases when you choose to "fully use" your system.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
When it's not using all the speakers, what kind of files are you playing? Something like music is usually just 2 channel, so your receiver will play it back on just two speakers (as intended). Depending on how much of a purist you are, you can leave it to just play back on the two speakers, or you could enable some sort of surround processing (like setting the receiver to Dolby Prologic II or whatever sounds best to you) and it will take a stereo signal and process it to play back on all speakers.

The first stuff was music, then the second thing I tried was a musical concert I had downloaded. It was somewhat annoying, but I will try to figure out the processing thing to see if it will work. I obviously have no clue how this stuff works, it seems strange to me that sound would not come out of all of the speakers. I get that it may not sound as good, but just getting sound of the speakers seems like it should be normal.

KT

Well it sounds like there's nothing wrong.

The "sound doesn't come out all my speakers" is in the same boat as "the movie doesn't fill up my whole screen". Just like movies aren't all filmed in a 16:9 aspect ratio to fill your whole screen, sound isn't always recorded in 5.1 (or higher) to use all your speakers.

With video, you can choose to watch it in the original aspect ratio as intended (and get black bars) or you can choose to modify it somehow to fill up your whole screen (stretching / zooming / etc.)

With a stereo audio source, you can listen to it as intended (2.0 or 2.1) or you can choose to modify it by applying surround processing (Dolby Prologic II, DTS Neo:6, Theater modes, etc.)

In both these cases, it's a personal choice whether you want to "give up" some of your screen space or speakers to experience the original material or if you want to use up your whole screen / sound system by modifying the video / sound somehow. There are significant compromises made in both these cases when you choose to "fully use" your system.

I totally get the OAR for video, I always watch (whenever possible) in the OAR because I can really tell the difference. I guess I just don't get it with sound; I see what you are saying, but it's hard for me to grasp the difference without actually hearing samples side by side, or right after one another. It's easy with video, you can actually see what you are missing, even by looking at screen captures.

I think I would rather have the sound coming from all of my speakers than just the two, but I guess I'll see once I try fiddling around with things.

KT