Yet another game developer driven out of her home by internet misogynists

[Exophase]

This is the problem. Death threats are never acceptable. Period. Someone saying "gaming culture is dead" is not a death threat. You may perceive it as an attack on your culture, and it's appropriate to respond with a rebuttal for why that person is full of crap. But death threats are never the answer. If someone said the NFL is on its way out, am I allowed to threaten to kill them? Of course not; that's insane. The point that PA was making is that as soon as you make death threats, you not only undermine your argument, you also become toxic to everyone around you making the same argument. It completely destroys any credibility or opportunity for dialogue. The LAST thing people should do if they want to be taken seriously is try to rationalize the death threats: they weren't that serious, that happens on the internet, she threatened our culture. Bull****. Stop trying to defend the indefensible.

I mean, this is a gaming board, so chances are most people here agree that Sarkeesian and her ilk go way overboard in their critique of gaming culture. But as a mature adult I also know that "she should die" is not an appropriate response. Gamergate dropped the ball by letting the conversation become about death threats and sexism instead of actual issues concerning journalistic ethics, and they've doubled-down on it in here every single time someone tries to rationalize the threats that have been issued. What possible use is there in saying "death threats ensued, yada yada" as though that's some run-of-the-mill thing? It shouldn't be, and it's going to alienate lots of people who might otherwise support the cause.

Everything you said is totally true, but also totally irrelevant. Virtually nobody on the internet thinks death threats are okay or acceptable. But they have nothing to do with gamergate, except that a tremendous number of people are making a tremendous fallacy of blaming them for it.

I could go into another argument about how a tiny fringe of anonymous creeps online don't represent anyone, but it's a lot easier to just point to the vast number of people associated with gamergate who also got death threats. Both men and women, mind you. And if anyone counters this by claiming that the tally is (much?) higher on the anti side, I'd say look into it and decide for yourself. Just because the media doesn't care about one side of it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Here's one example from yesterday:

https://twitter.com/ForemanErik/status/522529173705736192/photo/1

Since the recipient is a male, he gets threats of having his penis cut off as opposed to having something inserted in his vagina (note that Brianna Wu's attacker threatened her husband in a similar way). On the anti-GG woman's side that makes the news as a death threat and rape threat. On the pro-GG side it gets nothing whatsoever. It's hard to blame people for not knowing that these things happen on both sides and regardless of gender, because if you google search for death threats against gamergaters all you get is page after page of Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wu, and eventually Zoe Quinn. I only found the above reference buried on reddit. But since I've following it I've seen this happen over and over again.

Furthermore, I have literally seen on at least two occasions anti-GG people blaming GGers for getting death threats based on whom they associate with. The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

Frankly, I've never seen such a widespread media smear campaign based on such a blatantly false narrative in all of my life. Oh, I'm not saying they didn't happen, I was probably just too gullible to realize it. The only consolation in all of this is seeing first hand people start to realize that they're being lied to. Especially when such wisdom comes from unlikely places - I recommend anyone more curious about the issue to read this article from a gamergate opponent:

https://<storify dot com>/LadyFuzztail/gamergate-may-be-a-victim-of-a-false-flag-operati (sigh, another censored link, please fix it)

 

[BrightCandle]

So are you going to apologise for being part of a group that is threatening individuals on the internet with rape and murder or do you think its ridiculous for us to hold anyone against Gamergate account for what a few crazy individuals are doing? Its a simple question, I await your apologies for this deranged individuals behaviour. It is infact what has been asked over and over since the gamers are dead articles and the various individuals have been categorising completely reasonable people as evil.

These aren't bad people you are vilifying, you are following a narrative that isn't true created by the people who are being criticised by this group for ethical failures. Their behaviour in response was abhorrent, deeply unethical and has a lot of people angry. You think this is about harassment, then so is anti GG because its threatening GG individuals. If its never OK to threaten and all those associating with these individuals are terrorists also then anti GG is a terrorist movement as well. Its extreme to say the least to make those kind of jumps, its absolutely absurd.

 

[sweenish]

If this is the case, why are we all discussing a bunch of spiteful children in a playground shouting match?

We can all move along, and ignore them. They'll creep back into their woodworks eventually.

Some of the real discussions that sprung from all of this BS are still interesting to me, though.

 

[BD2003]

If this is the case, why are we all discussing a bunch of spiteful children in a playground shouting match?

We can all move along, and ignore them. They'll creep back into their woodworks eventually.

Some of the real discussions that sprung from all of this BS are still interesting to me, though.

Because the only thing the internet loves more than death threats is talking past each other.

 

[BrightCandle]

So a genuine gamer issue with media ethics is once again up today. As the news from the school kid who mentioned an interview with a Ubisoft dev implied ms/Sony was behind the 30 fps locks on PC games it became definitively true as the gaming media picked it up.

Most didn't refer back to the original reddit source and even less reported on it correctly. An implication from a hearsay but credible enough source has become UbiSoft blames Microsoft for the 30 fps lock in just 24 hours of Chinese whispers.

So the media have no shame?

 

[Veliko]

It's not about right or wrong, it's just being realistic. If there was an easy solution we'd already have it. Publicizing it certainly isn't the answer, that just feeds the trolls.

It most certainly is about right and wrong, and I don't see how anyone can claim otherwise when we're talking about death threats.

"Being realistic" is just a euphemism for "maintaining the status quo".

So I dunno, I'm just used to it, I go on living my life. And given how everyone else in that article I posted just went on with their lives as well, I remain a little suspicious of the motives of the woman who was supposedly "driven from her home" by these threats. It plays right into the narrative and reeks of attention seeking.

And now you're back to defending the actions of those who made the death threats, whilst attacking the victims.

Some other examples of when people "just went on with their lives" are during the days of slavery, during the Rwandan genocide, the Holocaust, when children were sent up chimneys, segregation, and when women didn't have the vote.

And an example that also "reeks of attention seeking" is Rosa Parks.

 

[Veliko]

No, I expect the driver to be punished. As I hope the person making death threats is punished.

What I do NOT expect to see is all drivers everywhere being labeled as evil people merely for the fact that they drive a car, which Wu, Sarkeesian, et al have done in saying that all gamers are the problem.

And if someone did label all drivers as being evil, would you expect hordes of said drivers to try and run that person over?

 

[ThinClient]

And if someone did label all drivers as being evil, would you expect hordes of said drivers to try and run that person over?

No, but I wouldn't be surprised if a news studio made covert threats of running that person over so they could report on the threats to gain revenue through journalistic advertising like what was proven to have happened in this case.

Some bozo from South America has been found to be responsible for the death threats on Wu so that he could publish news articles about them in an effort to gain income through click bait journalism, says the FBI.

Now stop pretending that gamers are largely responsible for the death threats and other garbage.

 

[Veliko]

No, but I wouldn't be surprised if a news studio made covert threats of running that person over so they could report on the threats to gain revenue through journalistic advertising like what was proven to have happened in this case.

Some bozo from South America has been found to be responsible for the death threats on Wu so that he could publish news articles about them in an effort to gain income through click bait journalism, says the FBI.

Now stop pretending that gamers are largely responsible for the death threats and other garbage.

If we're going to be consistent with this driver analogy, the bozo from South America would actually be running people over.

 

[BD2003]

It most certainly is about right and wrong, and I don't see how anyone can claim otherwise when we're talking about death threats.

"Being realistic" is just a euphemism for "maintaining the status quo".



And now you're back to defending the actions of those who made the death threats, whilst attacking the victims.

Some other examples of when people "just went on with their lives" are during the days of slavery, during the Rwandan genocide, the Holocaust, when children were sent up chimneys, segregation, and when women didn't have the vote.

And an example that also "reeks of attention seeking" is Rosa Parks.

Sorry dude, I just can't do it. I know you're trying to sound all high minded but now that you've officially brought the holocaust into it, we're pretty much done here. Seriously though? The holocaust? Rosa parks? Seriously? I can't believe you had the audacity to go there.

Sorry, women wanting more recognition in a entertainment subculture is NOT a ****** human rights issue.

 

[Veliko]

You can't do what? Accept that misogyny is a civil rights issue?

 

[BD2003]

You can't do what? Accept that misogyny is a civil rights issue?

Shhh. Adults are trying to have a conversation.

 

[surfsatwerk]

Shhh. Adults are trying to have a conversation.

IMO this thread has become the Trayvon Martin v. George Zimmerman of PC Gaming.

 

[BD2003]

IMO this thread has become the Trayvon Martin v. George Zimmerman of PC Gaming.

God help us all if a person of color gets wrapped up in this drama. The level of discourse will plummet to a depth rarely seen in the darkest corners of the Internet.

 

[Nebor]

You can't do what? Accept that misogyny is a civil rights issue?

Correct. It's a boogy man made up by the most privileged, entitled, spoiled generation of women to ever exist on this planet.

 

[Veliko]

Correct. It's a boogy man made up by the most privileged, entitled, spoiled generation of women to ever exist on this planet.

Awww, bless.

The little man is scared that a woman might be better than him at something.

 

[Nebor]

Awww, bless.

The little man is scared that a woman might be better than him at something.

You guys follow a pretty regimented script leading up to your personal attacks.

 

[Veliko]

You guys follow a pretty regimented script leading up to your personal attacks.

Nah, sorry, you don't get to play the victim card I'm afraid.

 

[Maximilian]

Sorry dude, I just can't do it. I know you're trying to sound all high minded but now that you've officially brought the holocaust into it, we're pretty much done here. Seriously though? The holocaust? Rosa parks? Seriously? I can't believe you had the audacity to go there.

Sorry, women wanting more recognition in a entertainment subculture is NOT a ****** human rights issue.

Yeah... exactly.

They got food, water, and a home for the most part. Nothing to bitch about!

 

[Nebor]

BTW, this guy received several death threats (that weren't from South America) and was forced from his home! So far Jezebel, Huffington Post and Gawker haven't picked up the story for some reason.

Fortunately 8chan quickly doxed the feminists behind the threats, getting one dude kicked out of his university and another fired from his job. I hope those white knights feel vindicated, sitting at home right now. They sacrificed so much for the cause. I'm sure they'll be greatly rewarded by the women they were "protecting."

 

[Nebor]

Nah, sorry, you don't get to play the victim card I'm afraid.

I've never been a victim, and I never will be a victim. It's a terrible thing to aspire to. I was merely pointing out how similar you all are. It usually goes Weak Argument-> nonsensical rebuttal (drivers running over people)->broad attacks (you guys are misogynists) -> specific personal attacks (you're afraid of women, have a little pein, never get laid) -> random squawking and noise (derp derp derp.)

 

[BD2003]

Yeah... exactly.



They got food, water, and a home for the most part. Nothing to bitch about!

Listen, all I'm saying is that if someone is unwilling to make the distinction between recognition vs defense of something, then they're either too immature or simply not interested in an adult conversation.

It's unfortunate because there's actually a lot of interesting nuance to what's going on here, but now that hitler has made an appearance, it appears that ship has sailed.

 

[Veliko]

I've never been a victim, and I never will be a victim. It's a terrible thing to aspire to. I was merely pointing out how similar you all are. It usually goes Weak Argument-> nonsensical rebuttal (drivers running over people)->broad attacks (you guys are misogynists) -> specific personal attacks (you're afraid of women, have a little pein, never get laid) -> random squawking and noise (derp derp derp.)

Woah! It wasn't me who first introduced the analogy of drivers running over people; that was one of your buddies I'm afraid.

 

[BoberFett]

Woah! It wasn't me who first introduced the analogy of drivers running over people; that was one of your buddies I'm afraid.

As usual, Veliko exhibits a complete lack of reading comprehension and logic.

 

[ThinClient]

If we're going to be consistent with this driver analogy, the bozo from South America would actually be running people over.

Wrong. He didn't actually bomb anyone. The threat, yes, the action, no.

http://www.usu.edu/ust/index.cfm?article=54179

Here's proof that the police and FBI came to the conclusion that the Sarkeesian threat was not real. No actual threat.