Yet another fast food worker strike

[theeedude]

Why are Americans losing empathy?

They aren't. This is a Republican problem not an American one.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/06/09/news/economy/minimum-wage-poll/

 

[Knowing]

Why should the minimum wage be a "living" wage? Should the kid that mows my lawn be able to afford to raise 2 children?

What is the minimum amount of labor that should qualify for being able to afford a mortgage?

 

[theeedude]

Why should the minimum wage be a "living" wage? Should the kid that mows my lawn be able to afford to raise 2 children?

What is the minimum amount of labor that should qualify for being able to afford a mortgage?

Is the kid mowing your lawn working 40 hours a week?

 

[Knowing]

Is the kid mowing your lawn working 40 hours a week?

Perhaps he is, to what degree am I responsible for his expenses? Also, excellent dodge on the other questions.

 

[Fern]

No I mean when Republicans CHANGED the laws to allow the outsourcing of those jobs. Republicans HATE and LOATHE american workers.

Please tell us what laws the Republicans changed to allow outsourcing of jobs.

Fern

 

[theeedude]

Perhaps he is, to what degree am I responsible for his expenses? Also, excellent dodge on the other questions.

If someone's working 40 hours a week, he's not a kid, so stop pretending they are. And if it is a kid working a couple hours on the weekends, $15/hr is not going to raise 2 children anyways.
You are responsible for paying at least the minimum wage.

 

[HumblePie]

Here's how I see the scenario.

First off, is making burgers really any less complicated than factory workers of the past putting a nut on a screw in an assembly line or putting an item in a box?

Not really.

In the past, the later was a middle class American job with a good wage. The former in today's world is not.

So what is the difference? The industry each are related to.

To setup a new burger joint? Cheap on the grand scale of things. To setup a new high tech manufacturing plant somewhere? Not so cheap. Which means big chain restaurants can go where they please or leave when they please. Manufacturing of the olden days were far less mobile for a time. So workers could strike against the owners of the plant and demand compensation greater than what was originally offered. Why? Because workers working together had companies by the balls back then.

In today's fast food industry that isn't the case. Sure the workers are manufacturing food instead of internals to a car, but the amount of relative power the amassed food workers have in relation to their various companies versus what car makers had in the past is laughable.

So instead of railing against the companies, whom the fast food workers know they wouldn't have any power over, they rail against the government to step in to raise the minimum wage.

Here is the difference. One was an effect on subsets of various industries and didn't affect other businesses unilaterally. The other changes everything. This is why I am more in favor of states or cities raising the minimum wage for their specific area than for a blanket change all over.

 

[zanejohnson]

if the minimum wage went up, to say 15 dollars an hour, wouldn't that, effectively disqualify a large portion of people receiving benefits currently?

 

[fskimospy]

Great, so then as I challenged senseamp, make the shutdown of benefits programs and tax cuts a part of your proposal. That will get even the coldest of Republicans on board with your idea! Increase minimum wage and cancel welfare! Everyone has to earn their keep! No more freeloaders! It's a Republican dream!

Canceling welfare wouldn't make any sense but you would be able to dramatically reduce spending on various social welfare programs. That's a plus, right!?

 

[Fern]

She refuses to go out of her comfort zone by learning a skill or going to a job that pays more but thinks McDonald's should give her a raise just because? Hell she could have worked her way up into management at McDonald's and be making a decent wage.

She's been there 10 years and hasn't worked her way into a management job (e.g., asst manager, shift manager or store manager), even a low level one?

Am I the only one who sees a problem with that?

Fern

 

[Fern]

The Democrats have been running into political trouble pushing for more govt handouts. How to circumvent that? Force the private sector to pay them. The voters targeted by the Democratic will still recognize it as a benefit from Uncle Sugar.

But this scheme is a disguised regressive tax, something Dems oppose.

Fern

 

[BoberFett]

Canceling welfare wouldn't make any sense but you would be able to dramatically reduce spending on various social welfare programs. That's a plus, right!?

Show me the numbers. How much can the taxpayers save with this MW increase? From what programs? Let's see proposed budget cuts to those departments.

Isn't that politics? Give and take? The MW increase crowd is making demands, but not giving anything in return.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Why should the minimum wage be a "living" wage? Should the kid that mows my lawn be able to afford to raise 2 children?

What is the minimum amount of labor that should qualify for being able to afford a mortgage?

Be honest, the kid that mows your lawn do you really work him for an hour then hand him$7.25? My guess is its $20

 

[theeedude]

Show me the numbers. How much can the taxpayers save with this MW increase? From what programs? Let's see proposed budget cuts to those departments.

Isn't that politics? Give and take? The MW increase crowd is making demands, but not giving anything in return.

Corporations have already taken way more than their share, it's time to give to workers and not take anything. If GOP wants to stand on the wrong side of a 71-29 issue expecting to get something for their corporatist backers in exchange, it's welcome to do so.
There are income eligibility limits for the various programs already, no need to explicitly cut anything, if people's wages rise, they will be outside of the eligibility limits automatically.

 

[Fern]

Show me the numbers. How much can the taxpayers save with this MW increase? From what programs? Let's see proposed budget cuts to those departments.

Isn't that politics? Give and take? The MW increase crowd is making demands, but not giving anything in return.

IMO, "give and take" is not an intended part of the program. Rather it's similar to Obamacare where the Dems wanted to hand out HI benefits etc but politics wouldn't allow an increase in govt provided (i.e., taxpayer funded) benefits. Hence they set up a complicated scheme to provide benefits to their targets (e.g., low income and women) and chose another group to bear the costs (middle income, males).

Fern

 

[BoberFett]

Corporations have already taken way more than their share, it's time to give to workers and not take anything. If GOP wants to stand on the wrong side of a 71-29 issue expecting to get something for their corporatist backers in exchange, it's welcome to do so.
There are income eligibility limits for the various programs already, no need to explicitly cut anything, if people's wages rise, they will be outside of the eligibility limits automatically.

You do realize how budgets work, right?

 

[theeedude]

You do realize how budgets work, right?

Yep. They will just have to spend more of it on workers and less on dividends.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Show me the numbers. How much can the taxpayers save with this MW increase? From what programs? Let's see proposed budget cuts to those departments.

Isn't that politics? Give and take? The MW increase crowd is making demands, but not giving anything in return.

Wanna bet that some 'goalposts' will be moved after MW increase and the same people will still be on the dole?

 

[cyclohexane]

Unfortunately, the solution is not to force companies to pay better wages. Noble intentions, but really no incentives for the executives to act.

The solution is for the workers (really for everyone in this country) to have a skillset that is valued. Then they have bargaining power to demand a better wage.

 

[BoberFett]

Yep. They will just have to spend more of it on workers and less on dividends.

Government budgets, moron.

Tell me, in concrete numbers, how much the budgets for various welfare programs will be cut if you get this MW increase.

All you've done is make vague assertions that fewer people will need welfare if you get this.

 

[MongGrel]

Please tell us what laws the Republicans changed to allow outsourcing of jobs.

Fern

NAFTA was a really big one actually that accelerated a lot of it.

But Bill put it in concrete I guess after Bush.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement

There were plenty of things before that.

I know even when I worked at a tool shop in the early 80's when I was going through my apprenticeship, we had a bit of GM work subcontracted to us.

Was from Cadillac on a few transmission assembly hydraulic presses, we built the machines and they went to Mexico without knowing where they were going, which is a bit irrelevant and they had put Hispanic tags on the operation after it had left the shop.

They came back shortly after we had proofed the out broken from misuse for repairs.

 

[Fern]

NAFTA was a really big one actually that accelerated a lot of it.

But Bill put it in concrete I guess after Bush.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Free_Trade_Agreement

There were plenty of things before that.
-snip-

Then what we're talking about is tariffs. If so, bshole has it backwards. The dems supported low tariffs to limit the cost to consumers, the repubs high ones to help protect our industries.

The repubs lost this battle long ago (IIRC circa 1930).

Many Dems/Libs/progressives can't keep their ideologies straight.

Fern

 

[rpanic]

If minimum wage was increased wouldn't welfare and entitlements also have to increase because of the increase cost of goods and services? Is the guy making $15 or more going to get a proportional increase? Seems like unless your screwing the middle class worker all increases well cancel out in the long run.

 

[theeedude]

Government budgets, moron.

Tell me, in concrete numbers, how much the budgets for various welfare programs will be cut if you get this MW increase.

All you've done is make vague assertions that fewer people will need welfare if you get this.

CBO can do the exact math. It's common sense that fewer people will be eligible for welfare and food stamps if they earn more money at work. I have no interest in explaining common sense things to people who can't figure them out for themselves.

 

[werepossum]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/01/news/companies/fast-food-worker-strike/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

Again, the sob story about a 27 year old woman with 2 kids (one being 8 years old, so she was preggers at 18)... With no father in the picture for her two kids... Who thinks she should be paid twice what she currently is just to survive... Who hasn't skipped a meal in 15 years and is obese... Is going on strike in the next few days to attempt to fix this injustice.

Why do I not have any sympathy? Is there something wrong with me? CBD?

The irony is that in today's labor market, if fast food workers must pay $15/hour they can afford much better employees than she. For $15/hour I'd want some college as well as demonstrated math and computer skills.

How about they are worth whatever they can get someone to pay them, and striking is a legitimate bargaining tactic.

It never ceases to amaze me how America has changed. In the past strikers were thought of as heroic. Now you see people actively rooting for giant multinational corporations to crush their workers. Stockholm syndrome?

I'm fine with them striking as long as they can be replaced - that is also a legitimate bargaining tactic, ask too much and you'll simply be replaced.

It's also worth pointing out how strikers in America have changed. Used to be strikers were protesting unfair labor practices and unsafe working conditions. Now they are simply striking to be paid twice as much money as their market-established, period. No coercion, no being paid in near-worthless company scrip, no widespread deaths in the hamburger mines, just pure "I have little economic value and I'd like that artificially changed to avoid any required work on my end."