Yet another fast food worker strike

Page 19 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
http://www.cato.org/blog/raise-minimum-wage-kill-jobs
During his State of the Union address, President Obama announced that he intended to raise minimum wages to $10.10/hour for certain workers. Based on data from EU countries, it is clear that minimum wage laws kill jobs. I concluded that hiking the minimum wage will kill jobs in the U.S., too. Executives surveyed in the Duke University/CFO Magazine Global Business Outlook Survey agree.

Chief Financial Officers from around the world were interviewed and the majority of them concurred: a minimum wage increase from $7.25/hour to $10.10/hour would kill a significant number of jobs.

Here’s what the CFOs had to say:
They've got a pretty set of charts for the CFO responses, but the number are thus:
Would you reduce hiring if the minimum wage increases?
Retail industry - yes 57%
Service industry - yes 44%
Manufacturing industry - yes 40%.

If yes, would $10 an hour reduce your hiring?
Retail industry - yes 82%
Service industry - yes 93%
Manufacturing industry - yes 81%.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/MinimumWages.html
Minimum wage laws set legal minimums for the hourly wages paid to certain groups of workers. In the United States, amendments to the Fair Labor Standards Act have increased the federal minimum wage from $.25 per hour in 1938 to $5.15 in 1997.1 Minimum wage laws were invented in Australia and New Zealand with the purpose of guaranteeing a minimum standard of living for unskilled workers. Most noneconomists believe that minimum wage laws protect workers from exploitation by employers and reduce poverty. Most economists believe that minimum wage laws cause unnecessary hardship for the very people they are supposed to help.
The reason is simple: although minimum wage laws can set wages, they cannot guarantee jobs. In practice they often price low-skilled workers out of the labor market. Employers typically are not willing to pay a worker more than the value of the additional product that he produces. This means that an unskilled youth who produces $4.00 worth of goods in an hour will have a very difficult time finding a job if he must, by law, be paid $5.15 an hour. As Princeton economist David F. Bradford wrote, “The minimum wage law can be described as saying to the potential worker: ‘Unless you can find a job paying at least the minimum wage, you may not accept employment.’”2

Several decades of studies using aggregate time-series data from a variety of countries have found that minimum wage laws reduce employment. At current U.S. wage levels, estimates of job losses suggest that a 10 percent in crease in the minimum wage would decrease employment of low-skilled workers by 1 or 2 percent. The job losses for black U.S. teenagers have been found to be even greater, presumably because, on average, they have fewer skills. As liberal economist Paul A. Samuelson wrote in 1973, “What good does it do a black youth to know that an employer must pay him $2.00 per hour if the fact that he must be paid that amount is what keeps him from getting a job?”3 In a 1997 response to a request from the Irish National Minimum Wage Commission, economists for the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) summarized economic research results on the minimum wage: “If the wage floor set by statutory minimum wages is too high, this may have detrimental effects on employment, especially among young people.”4 This agreement over the general effect of minimum wages is long-standing. According to a 1978 article in American Economic Review, 90 percent of the economists surveyed agreed that the minimum wage increases unemployment among low-skilled workers.5

Australia provided one of the earliest practical demonstrations of the harmful effects of minimum wage laws when the federal court created a minimum wage for unskilled men in 1921. The court set the wage at what it thought employees needed for a decent living, independent of what employers would willingly pay. Laborers whose productivity was worth less than the mandated wage could find work only in occupations not covered by the law or with employers willing to break it. Aggressive reporting of violations by vigilant unions made evasion difficult. The historical record shows that unemployment remained a particular problem for unskilled laborers for the rest of the decade.

At about the same time, a hospital in the United States fired a group of women after the Minimum Wage Board in the District of Columbia ordered that their wages be raised to the legal minimum. The women sued to halt enforcement of the minimum wage law. In 1923, the U.S. Supreme Court, in Adkins v. Children’s Hospital, ruled that the minimum wage law was price fixing and that it represented an unreasonable infringement on individuals’ freedom to determine the price at which they would sell their services.

In addition to making jobs hard to find, minimum wage laws may also harm workers by changing how they are compensated. Fringe benefits—such as paid vacation, free room and board, inexpensive insurance, subsidized child care, and on-the-job training—are an important part of the total compensation package for many low-wage workers. When minimum wages rise, employers can control total compensation costs by cutting benefits. In extreme cases, employers convert low-wage full-time jobs with benefits to high-wage part-time jobs with no benefits and fewer hours. David Neumark and William Wascher found that a 10 percent increase in minimum wages decreased on-the-job training for young people by 1.5–1.8 percent.6 Since on-the-job training is the way most people build their salable skills, these findings suggest that minimum wage laws also reduce future opportunities for the unskilled.

A particularly graphic example of benefits reduction occurred in 1990, when the U.S. Department of Labor ordered the Salvation Army to pay the minimum wage to voluntary participants in its work therapy programs. In exchange for processing donated goods, the programs provided participants, many of whom were homeless alcoholics and drug addicts, with a small weekly stipend and up to ninety days of food, shelter, and counseling. The Salvation Army said that the expense of complying with the minimum wage order would force it to close the programs. Ignoring both the fact that the beneficiaries of the program could leave to take higher-paying jobs at any time and the cash value of the food, shelter, and supervision, the Labor Department insisted that it was protecting workers’ rights by enforcing the minimum wage. After a public outcry, the Labor Department backed down.7 Its Wage and Hour Division Field Operations Handbook now contains a special section on minimum wage enforcement and the Salvation Army.8

Minimum wage increases make unskilled workers more expensive relative to all other factors of production. If skilled workers make fifteen dollars an hour and unskilled workers make three dollars an hour, skilled workers are five times as expensive as the unskilled. Imposing a minimum wage of five dollars an hour makes skilled workers relatively more attractive by making them only three times as expensive as unskilled workers. This explains why unions, whose members have historically been highly skilled and seldom hold minimum wage jobs, invariably support legislation increasing minimum wages. As in the Australian case, unions also protect themselves against competitive threats by assiduously helping labor authorities find and prosecute suspected violators.

Many employers in the U.S. construction industry have found it less expensive to hire unskilled workers at low wages and train them on the job. By accepting lower wages in return for training, unskilled workers increase their expected future income. With high minimum wages like those specified for government construction by the Davis-Bacon Act, the cost of wages and training for the unskilled may rise enough to make employers prefer more productive union members. In effect, higher minimum wages reduce the competition faced by union members while leaving the unskilled unemployed. Of course, employers may also respond to minimum wage laws by decreasing overall employment, substituting machines for people, moving production abroad, or shutting down labor-intensive businesses.

While those rendered unemployed by a minimum wage increase are largely invisible, it is easy to calculate the increased income enjoyed by those who keep their jobs after an increase. This asymmetry has led many advocates to mistakenly assume that increasing the minimum wage is an effective way to fight poverty. Using 1997 Census data, D. Mark Wilson found that only 11.7 percent of minimum-wage workers were the sole breadwinners in their families, and that more than 40 percent of the sole breadwinners earning the minimum wage were voluntary part-time workers.9 Richard Burkhauser used 1996 U.S. Census data to identify the likely beneficiaries from the 1996 increase in the federal minimum wage. He concluded that the “20.9 percent of minimum wage workers who lived in poor families only received 16.8 percent of the benefits.”10

Additional evidence on the distributional effect of minimum wages comes from David Neumark, Mark Schweitzer, and William Wascher. Raising the minimum wage increases both the probability that a poor family will escape poverty through higher wages and the probability that another nonpoor family will become poor as minimum wage increases price it out of the labor market. They found that the unemployment caused by minimum wage increases is concentrated among low-income families. This suggests that minimum wage increases generally redistribute income among low-income families rather than moving it from those with high incomes to those with low incomes. The authors found that although some families do benefit, minimum wage increases generally increase the proportion of families that are poor and near-poor. Minimum wage increases also decrease the proportion of families with incomes between one and a half and three times the poverty level, suggesting that they make it more difficult to escape poverty.11

In the early 1990s, after a telephone survey of 410 fast-food restaurants in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, economists David Card and Alan B. Krueger challenged the consensus view that higher minimum wages shrink employment opportunities. Their results appeared to demonstrate that a minimum wage increase resulted in increased employment.12 Because telephone survey data are notoriously prone to measurement error, Neumark and Wascher repeated Card and Krueger’s analysis using payroll records from a similar sample of restaurants over the same time period. The results from the payroll data showed that “the minimum-wage increase led to a decline in employment in New Jersey fast food restaurants relative to the Pennsylvania control group.”13 After an extended academic debate, Card and Krueger retreated from their earlier position, writing that “the increase in New Jersey’s minimum wage probably had no effect on total employment in New Jersey’s fast-food industry, and possibly had a small positive effect.”14

Even without the results from the payroll data, the contrary results from the Card and Krueger study would have had a limited impact on economists’ belief that increasing the minimum wage increases unemployment. As labor economist Finis Welch pointed out, the consensus theory does not predict how any one firm or industry is affected by minimum wage increases.15 Even if nationally recognized fast-food restaurants did not reduce hiring in response to higher minimum wages, Card and Krueger were silent about what happened at less-visible businesses, such as small retailers and local pizza and sandwich shops.

Furthermore, estimates of the overall effect of minimum wage increases often lead people to overlook the fact that regional and sectoral wage differentials average together to produce the national result. A federal minimum wage of $5.15 an hour may substantially reduce employment in rural areas, where it exceeds the prevailing wage, but have little effect on employment in large cities, where almost everyone earns more. Regional studies leave little doubt that substantial increases in the minimum wage can shrink local industries and inhibit job creation in areas with market wages below the new minimum. The growth of the textile industry in the southern United States, for example, was propelled by low wages. Had the federal minimum wage been set at the wage earned by northern workers, the migration of textile workers to the South might never have occurred.

It is also easy to overlook the fact that raising the minimum wage applicable to a relatively small proportion of occupations will not necessarily increase measured unemployment. Some people will lose their jobs in covered occupations and withdraw from the labor market entirely. They will not be included in the unemployment statistics. Others will seek jobs at lower pay in uncovered occupations. Though the labor influx reduces wages in the uncovered sector, people do have jobs, and unemployment may not change. As minimum wage laws cover more occupations, however, the shrinking uncovered sector may not be able to absorb all of the people thrown out of work. The 1989 U.S. minimum wage legislation brought us one step closer to this possibility by extending coverage to all workers engaged in interstate commerce, regardless of employer size.

The fact that gross unemployment statistics do not necessarily reflect the harm done by minimum wage laws with limited coverage probably explains the popularity of the living-wage ordinances now in vogue in American cities with strong union ties. Living-wage ordinances set minimum wages for businesses and nonprofits that receive contracts or subsidies from local government. To arrive at the appropriate minimum living wage, advocates calculate the amount required to pay for a basket of goods containing “decent” housing, child care, food, transportation, health insurance, clothing, and taxes for various family sizes. The minimum is then set at the rate that produces enough money to buy the basket when someone works forty hours a week for a year. Initial empirical studies by Neumark suggest that the trade-off between wages and employment is the same for living wages as for minimum wages.16

In San Francisco in 2001, passage of a living-wage law raised the compensation of airport skycaps from $4.75 an hour to $10.00 an hour plus health insurance.17 By the end of 2002, the Economic Policy Institute, an advocacy group supported by labor unions and liberal foundations, reported that living-wage ordinances had set minimum wages ranging from $6.25 an hour in Milwaukee to $12.00 an hour in Santa Cruz, California.18 In September 2003, the California Assembly passed a $10 minimum-wage requirement for contractors doing business with the state.

By one reckoning, the total cost of the typical basket of worker necessities used to arrive at living-wage minimums exceeds the incomes of almost a third of all families in the United States.19 It will not be surprising, therefore, as the number of cities with “living-wage” laws expands, to see unskilled workers harmed by falling employment, fewer entry-level jobs, and a reduction in job-related training and educational opportunities.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
http://www.mdpolicy.org/research/detail/the-end-of-the-minimum-wage-debate
In Washington and Annapolis, lawmakers and policy researchers are debating the idea of raising the minimum wage. Supporters say an increase would help poor families; opponents worry that it would raise the cost of employment, reducing the number of jobs and hurting would-be workers.

The good news is that both the politicians and policy researchers seem to be reaching a consensus on the minimum wage. The bad news is that the politicians are reaching the exact opposite consensus of the researchers.

Social scientists have been studying the effects of the minimum wage for decades. A large majority of the empirical research indicates that raising the wage reduces employment[1]—as the Congressional Budget Office recently noted in a high-profile report.[2] However, a small number of studies found no effect on employment.[3] Why the difference? In a new paper that is the most important research on the minimum wage to come along in decades, two Texas A&M University economists appear to have found the explanation.[4]

Until now, researchers have tried to determine the job effects of the minimum wage by simply looking at the number of employed workers before and after an increase in the state or federal minimum wage. The studies typically found that the job numbers went down relative to some benchmark, leading them to conclude that a higher minimum wage hurts jobs. However, a minority of studies found the number stayed the same or went up, leading them to conclude there is no employment effect.

The Texas A&M study examines the rate of job growth before and after a minimum wage increase. There are a number of reasons why this is a better research method. One reason is that minimum wage increases usually happen during economic booms; an increase could (theoretically, at least) hurt job growth, yet the economy’s momentum would mean that some jobs would still be created. Another reason is that existing employers may be loathe to fire current workers following a minimum wage increase, but may slow their hiring of new workers, while new businesses—which are a significant part of job growth—may not hire at all. The old research method was likely to miss those effects, but the new method would see them.

When the Texas A&M economists used this method on employment data from 1975 to 2012, they found that minimum wage hikes had a dramatic negative effect on job growth. A mere 10 percent increase in the wage reduced job growth by around half a percentage point the following year. That may not sound like much, but job growth averaged about 2 percent annually over those decades, so the wage hike meant the loss of about a quarter of all new jobs. Given the longstanding consensus of the empirical research and the groundbreaking work from Texas A&M, it seems unreasonable to deny what should be common sense: forcing employers to pay higher wages means that those employers will hire less.

However, supporters of raising the minimum wage can still make some good arguments for their side. For instance, they can claim that it’s worthwhile to lose some jobs in exchange for raises for other low-wage workers. I appreciate that idea, but I’m unpersuaded by it. The data are clear that nearly two-thirds of minimum-wage and near-minimum-wage workers live in households with incomes at least double the poverty level.[5] Further, minimum wage workers typically are high school and college students who work part-time.[6] No doubt, those workers could use the extra $68 per week (before taxes) that the Annapolis and D.C. proposals would deliver to the average minimum wage worker. But I don’t think mandating that increase is worth the tradeoff of a large loss in job creation. In this miserable economy, the last thing we need is to further handicap job growth and business start-ups. Still, debating this tradeoff would be a thoughtful, meaningful discussion of minimum wage policy.

But that’s not what we’re getting from Washington and Annapolis. The politicians have their own consensus on raising the minimum wage: it’s a political winner. Who can be opposed to higher wages for low-income workers? Besides, how many voters will think through the consequences of minimum wage policy, let alone read the research? So there’s little doubt that we’ll see a minimum wage increase before November’s elections. After all, the jobs that politicians care about most are their own.

Repeat after me: There is no free lunch.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,349
16,727
136
Lol! Now we are talking! Was that so hard? Now should I do what you did and immediately dismiss half of the studies based on who did them? I also won't bother pointing out that I also said and even linked to studies that said raises in minimum wage also resulted in employment loss off the lowest skilled workers. I also never said anything about employment growth happening when the mw is raised, so we will ignore that straw man.

What we are talking about is inflation being risen because of an increase in the mw since proponents have stated that the minimum wage needs to be raised to live off of and a higher inflation level that would negate any gains would be pointless.

So now that you have attempted to support your claim, I shall now read the links you posted more thoroughly and rebut them or concede to the claims made.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Just shut the fuck up already. You don't have the balls to address a post on its merits without resorting to calling everything that doesn't agree with you a biased source.
-snip-

EPI is a liberal group. I don't believe this is contested by anyone.

Also, I could not find the 4% - .4% figure you mentioned. I assume it's in the EPI link, correct? And if so in which paragraph/section (i.e., what is the paragraph titled?)

TIA

Fern
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
More rightwing thinktank opinions please. We need this level of objectivity brought to the issue :D
You got Heritage, Cato, Liberty, Commonwealth, and MD Policy so far, do not disappoint us by stopping there :)

Then ignore all the links form both sides and just use a little common sense. Where do you think the money comes from to pay min wage workers more money?

1. It comes out of business owners pockets leaving them with less purchasing power.
2. It comes from higher prices leaving consumers with less purchasing power.

Feel free to add another option I overlooked.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
TIL about the Big Mac Index

The Big Mac Index is published by The Economist as an informal way of measuring the purchasing power parity (PPP) between two currencies and provides a test of the extent to which market exchange rates result in goods costing the same in different countries. It "seeks to make exchange-rate theory a bit more digestible"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Then ignore all the links form both sides and just use a little common sense. Where do you think the money comes from to pay min wage workers more money?

1. It comes out of business owners pockets leaving them with less purchasing power.
2. It comes from higher prices leaving consumers with less purchasing power.

Feel free to add another option I overlooked.

Wouldn't common sense also require you to check what happened the many times minimum wage was raised before to back test your theories?
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I didn't think you could answer the question.

McD's here pays it's employees 15 an hr and thrives.
I think we pay about a dollar more for a Big Mac then in the States.
Looks like a good balance to me?
Our burgers probably contain more beef too, I seen an article that pink slime is back in the US ;)
 
Last edited:

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
Or maybe Canada doesn't let in 10 million illegal aliens to drive down low end wages? :sneaky:

Most of the people working at my McD's are new immigrants, barely no English
Yes Londo the min wage is much lower then what McD's is paying, but you walk in and start at 15.
Same with all the other fast food joints
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
Yea that is an outright falsehood. Note what happened in the 50's and 60's when unskilled factory worker compensation artificially skyrocked due to unionization. The american economy had explosive growth and prosperity. It has been the evisceration of highly paid unskilled labor by Republicans that has ruined America.

The economy had artificial growth and has now corrected itself.

What you say 'skyrocketed' just made things worse in the long run.

Hello Pension Liability!
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Most of the people working at my McD's are new immigrants, barely no English
Yes Londo the min wage is much lower then what McD's is paying, but you walk in and start at 15.
Same with all the other fast food joints

Sounds like a labor shortage to me.

You see the same thing in North Dakota.
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
There is a labor shortage. Same thing as ND
The point is though how is the McD's able to pay so much and still do good?
 

Drako

Lifer
Jun 9, 2007
10,697
161
106
Most of the people working at my McD's are new immigrants, barely no English
Yes Londo the min wage is much lower then what McD's is paying, but you walk in and start at 15.
Same with all the other fast food joints

What's that, about $13 USD?
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
33,349
16,727
136
Don't know if this has been posted here.

McDonald moving towards human less ordering

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ering-burgers-from-a-machine/?tid=HP_business

Sweet! Are they paying their franchise owners to do this or is it only for their own stores? No big deal though, mcdonalds has no future here in the US, that's why they are so concerned with doing well in china.

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/20...s-slump-as-u-s-declines-for-fourth-month.html

Let them dig their own grave! I don't know too many well off people that still eat there. My guess is their average customer is the same as their average employee, guess what happens when they cut off their noses in spite of their face?


http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/01/23/mcdonalds-fighting-to-be-relevant-to-customers-ceo-concedes/
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
McD's here pays it's employees 15 an hr and thrives.
I think we pay about a dollar more for a Big Mac then in the States.
Looks like a good balance to me?
Our burgers probably contain more beef too, I seen an article that pink slime is back in the US ;)

You are under the misconception that there is any beef at all in there. That also sounds like the very definition of inflation. Am I also to assume almost everything else there is higher as well almost canceling out the added wages?