Yet another fast food worker strike

[nehalem256]

Not to mention the thousands of arrests made in the same time period as the choking and shooting incidents where no excessive force was used or injury occurred when the person was placed in custody.

Yes, but how many of those people thought they were entitled to having their wages doubled?

Not hard to see why someone with that level of entitlement might get themselves shot by the police :twisted:

 

[Attic]

Don't get the $15 an hour thing. Too alienating.

Strike for more reasonable wage or something else. It would appear the country is united in supporting worker rights and stemming growing wealth inequality so there is some leverage for a fast food worker strike to achieve a measured amount of success.

But the $15, non starter,.. obviously.

 

[Veliko]

Don't get the $15 an hour thing. Too alienating.

Strike for more reasonable wage or something else. It would appear the country is united in supporting worker rights and stemming growing wealth inequality so there is some leverage for a fast food worker strike to achieve a measured amount of success.

But the $15, non starter,.. obviously.

Even if $15 is too high, aiming high is a perfectly valid negotiating tactic.

 

[theeedude]

Even if $15 is too high, aiming high is a perfectly valid negotiating tactic.

Exactly. You don't ask for what you want if the counterparty is low balling you. You ask for more and split the difference in negotiations.

 

[Greenman]

Nothing wrong with upward mobility. Quite a lot wrong with demanding that your employer drag your lard ass up a ladder you can't be bothered to climb.


Nothing inherently wrong with unions. The best, trade unions in my opinion, provide honest value to an employer as well as protection and other benefits to the employee. One of the reasons that manufacturing fled was because of unions making unreasonable demands. But employers have inherent power advantages over employees in that the employer can move his business (at a cost) to more reasonable employees or simply use his capital for other purposes. When employees become too powerful, government should remove/reduce the artificial restraints we place on employers to protect employees to a level that promotes maximum efficiency and societal benefit.

Instead government removed all barriers to employers simply seeking employees outside the country. This is a huge difference since whatever the balance between employer and employee, the wealth remained in this country. Now a significant portion of wealth leaves this country to pay the foreign employees who build our stuff, and while the employers/resource owners are better off, society as a whole is poorer and less stable. (Although admittedly we can consume more stuff - until it's our job that disappears, anyway.)


Increased labor costs inherently mean a reduction in total demand for the consumer, but logic dictates that is offset by increased demand by those receiving the extra labor cost. And it's worth pointing out that labor is often a small portion of the total cost. However, arbitrarily raising labor rates doesn't occur in a vacuum, especially raising them to $15 for burger flippers. Just for comparison purposes, median wage for all occupations in Tennessee in 2013 was $14.90. If we raise the wages for the lowest skilled jobs to this amount, we either usher in an incredible wave of inflation as other wages adjust or we accept a Soviet-style socialist economy where government sets wages arbitrarily without regard to the market value of the job. That way lies disaster.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_tn.htm#00-0000

Without actually studying all of that material I can't really respond, but I'd be curious to see how they arrived at that median wage.

Honestly, I've never thought much about minimum wage because I always assumed it was just for kids working summer jobs. But if what your saying is true, that raising minimum wage is going to cause an "incredible" wave of inflation, that's a convincing argument that we need to raise it. That means that much of whatever prosperity we have is based on the misery of others. I don't like that at all.

 

[WackyDan]

Exactly. You don't ask for what you want if the counterparty is low balling you. You ask for more and split the difference in negotiations.

Except they are trying their negotiating tactics on individual employers... Not the US gov't.

You have McDonald's corp owned stores and franchise locations. You can see the disconnect there... now add in Wendy's, Arby's, BK, Etc...

They are being used as pawns when their angst regarding min wage should be targeted at Washington D.C.

 

[Attic]

Exactly. You don't ask for what you want if the counterparty is low balling you. You ask for more and split the difference in negotiations.

Hopefully we are familiar with the low ballers will be ignored idea of bidding or doing trades.

$15 an hour for fast food workers, it's so high that it's plainly stupid. In this case it results in folks not taking the strikes seriously.

 

[nehalem256]

Hopefully we are familiar with the low ballers will be ignored idea of bidding or doing trades.

$15 an hour for fast food workers, it's so high that it's plainly stupid. In this case it results in folks not taking the strikes seriously.

If suggest anyone here go to their boss and demand double their pay.

Then if you can get a word in while he laughs at you suggest you would be willing to split the difference(ie 50% increase).

Report back on how it goes!

 

[Attic]

Without actually studying all of that material I can't really respond, but I'd be curious to see how they arrived at that median wage.

Honestly, I've never thought much about minimum wage because I always assumed it was just for kids working summer jobs. But if what your saying is true, that raising minimum wage is going to cause an "incredible" wave of inflation, that's a convincing argument that we need to raise it. That means that much of whatever prosperity we have is based on the misery of others. I don't like that at all.

Generally yes. Though prosperity is good, gaining it at expense of others is an unpleasent truth for how the system is run. But misery is relative, i'd replace it with "taking advantage" or "shitting on where required"*.

Truth is many folks would sooner poop in golden toilets than share in gains from production of society. Greed is ingrained in what pushes societies through time.

Justice system is one quick way to expose the truth of your quote in a limited scenario and not dealing directly with prosperity. The underprivelaged are used as a chum factory to feed the catch of whatever suits the popular agenda for entrenched and wealth interests.


*where the requirement is only a need (real or merely preceived) to serve the interests of the shitter.

 

[werepossum]

Unfortunately that doesn't make your theory of hyper inflation any more valid.

If you wish to pretend that I believe you'd be fine with your income if it suddenly became the minimum wage, I will try to refrain from pointing and laughing. You may have to remind me from time to time though.

Without actually studying all of that material I can't really respond, but I'd be curious to see how they arrived at that median wage.

Honestly, I've never thought much about minimum wage because I always assumed it was just for kids working summer jobs. But if what your saying is true, that raising minimum wage is going to cause an "incredible" wave of inflation, that's a convincing argument that we need to raise it. That means that much of whatever prosperity we have is based on the misery of others. I don't like that at all.

I would not argue that raising the minimum wage will cause an "incredible" wave of inflation. I think raising the minimum wage roughly in line with inflation is smart policy; it will inevitably cause some inflation, but inflation isn't the worst thing possible and I think it likely that for reasonable increases, a little inflation pain is a reasonable price to pay to avoid inflation from other causes defeating the purpose of the minimum wage.

I will argue that raising the minimum wage to $15/hour will cause an "incredible" wave of inflation. To believe otherwise requires believing that at least a third of the nation can suddenly find themselves earning minimum wage and be fine with that.

And sorry, I cannot see why rampant inflation and societal disruption could ever be seen as a good thing. But assuming you do, why aim at library technician territory? Why should an aerospace engineer or aerospace operations technician ($30/hour) earn more than a hamburger engineer or French fry technician? Surely flipping hamburgers is harder work, and it's not like just anyone is capable of doing it. (Some of those P.O.S. terminals don't even have pictures of the menu items; I bet aerospace engineer don't have to operate equipment without pictures.) Why not aim for CEO parity? Think how much consuming we could do, how much social justice we'd have, how much misery eradication we'd accomplish, if we all earned at least $82.50. Hey, if you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly, and it's not like wages are set by anything more than dumb luck and greed anyway.

Just for reference, the BLS 2013 report has the national median wage as $16.87 for all occupations.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000

 

[ivwshane]

If you wish to pretend that I believe you'd be fine with your income if it suddenly became the minimum wage, I will try to refrain from pointing and laughing. You may have to remind me from time to time though.


I would not argue that raising the minimum wage will cause an "incredible" wave of inflation. I think raising the minimum wage roughly in line with inflation is smart policy; it will inevitably cause some inflation, but inflation isn't the worst thing possible and I think it likely that for reasonable increases, a little inflation pain is a reasonable price to pay to avoid inflation from other causes defeating the purpose of the minimum wage.

I will argue that raising the minimum wage to $15/hour will cause an "incredible" wave of inflation. To believe otherwise requires believing that at least a third of the nation can suddenly find themselves earning minimum wage and be fine with that.

And sorry, I cannot see why rampant inflation and societal disruption could ever be seen as a good thing. But assuming you do, why aim at library technician territory? Why should an aerospace engineer or aerospace operations technician ($30/hour) earn more than a hamburger engineer or French fry technician? Surely flipping hamburgers is harder work, and it's not like just anyone is capable of doing it. (Some of those P.O.S. terminals don't even have pictures of the menu items; I bet aerospace engineer don't have to operate equipment without pictures.) Why not aim for CEO parity? Think how much consuming we could do, how much social justice we'd have, how much misery eradication we'd accomplish, if we all earned at least $82.50. Hey, if you're gonna be a bear, be a grizzly, and it's not like wages are set by anything more than dumb luck and greed anyway.

Just for reference, the BLS 2013 report has the national median wage as $16.87 for all occupations.

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm#00-0000

From what I've heard, both local and federal minimum wage increases are phased in, that is a $15 mw would be phased in over a couple of years.

 

[Matt1970]

Even if $15 is too high, aiming high is a perfectly valid negotiating tactic.

It is probably shooting them in the foot in this case.

 

[werepossum]

From what I've heard, both local and federal minimum wage increases are phased in, that is a $15 mw would be phased in over a couple of years.

And how many Americans do you think would be perfectly fine with making minimum wage as long as the process takes a couple years?

 

[Veliko]

If you wish to pretend that I believe you'd be fine with your income if it suddenly became the minimum wage, I will try to refrain from pointing and laughing. You may have to remind me from time to time though.

If you wish to retain your incredibly simplistic theories then go ahead.

 

[ivwshane]

And how many Americans do you think would be perfectly fine with making minimum wage as long as the process takes a couple years?

I'd say probably all of them if we look at history as any indicator.

 

[JEDI]

 

[Attic]

The other thing with $15 an hour is it's highly subjective to location.

Obama's $10.10 plan made sense. Then leave it up to individual areas to move beyond that. Seatle has a $15 min being phased in by 2016 IIRC. San Fran has it.


Min wage and low wages in general will IMO be a dominant subject for next pres election. Wealth inequality has continued to explode through Obama's term, to his displeasure (sincere obviously), but going to have to find someone who can ask teh tough questions and apply workable solutions.

Biden seems to crush on this issue, more than any others i've seen. Warren is good too, and a few Repubs have the scent, but the undertoe of the party label will drag em out to sea. Hilary is clearly a whichever way the wind blows manipulative and out of touch wise and beautiful woman.

 

[MtnMan]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/01/news/companies/fast-food-worker-strike/index.html?hpt=hp_t4

Again, the sob story about a 27 year old woman with 2 kids (one being 8 years old, so she was preggers at 18)... With no father in the picture for her two kids... Who thinks she should be paid twice what she currently is just to survive... Who hasn't skipped a meal in 15 years and is obese... Is going on strike in the next few days to attempt to fix this injustice.



Why do I not have any sympathy? Is there something wrong with me? CBD?

For the same reason I don't, the lazy bitch wants to sit on her ass and be granted membership into the middle class.

Go learn a fucking skill bitch, go to school. I teach in a community college, and I see many people claw their way through their own effort to a better life. I follow them on Linkedin, and they are now successful and moving up the food chain. I knew them when they were scrapping by, dealing with work, life, child care, and going to school at night.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

For the same reason I don't, the lazy bitch wants to sit on her ass and be granted membership into the middle class.

Go learn a fucking skill bitch, go to school. I teach in a community college, and I see many people claw their way through their own effort to a better life. I follow them on Linkedin, and they are now successful and moving up the food chain. I knew them when they were scrapping by, dealing with work, life, child care, and going to school at night.

Exactly. All of us middle/upper class people have paid our dues one way or another to have the right to live a certain lifestyle. It wasn't by flipping burgers and having kids you can't pay for. She has made her bed as far as I'm concerned. She is still young and can change her future but it is absolutely her responsibility to do that. Don't sit there with your hand out and do something about it.

 

[theeedude]

Except they are trying their negotiating tactics on individual employers... Not the US gov't.

You have McDonald's corp owned stores and franchise locations. You can see the disconnect there... now add in Wendy's, Arby's, BK, Etc...

They are being used as pawns when their angst regarding min wage should be targeted at Washington D.C.

US Govt is owned by the corporations they work for. Especially GOP which will obstruct any minimum wage increase. This is also bringing awareness to the issue that creates political pressure in Washington.

 

[theeedude]

From employer's point of view, some of them may be OK paying a bit more to make this issue go away, but they don't want to do it unless their competitors do as well, to not put themselves at a disadvantage. So targeting these corporations with strikes may give them an incentive to tell their puppets in Congress to stop obstructing minimum wage increase. You have to apply pressure on both Congress and the employers.

 

[BoberFett]

I hope they're all replaced by kiosks just so I can hear senseamp cry.

 

[theeedude]

I hope they're all replaced by kiosks just so I can hear senseamp cry.

Why would I cry about it? If machines can do it, and customers accept it, they will replace the workers regardless of whether it's $15 or $8 per hour. It's just a matter of time.
The employees can take advantage of the social safety net while they get an education to improve their productivity. You can cry about the social safety net if you want to.

 

[Zorkorist]

Once the Government is playing with fake money, then all money becomes fake.

People are working for years at minimum wage, and that is distressing in a society that values work.

They should obviously be paid more, good workers, but yet employers don't do it.

It could be the huge flow of Mexicans from the South, it could be that the taxes on employers, and the demands to make profit, that are limiting wages.

But we'll never know, because Government spends money it doesn't have. They spend into deficit, affecting your children. They so affect supply and demand, that economics might as well be forgotten.

I for one, am in favor of the workers, and I hope they get $99/hour.

-John

 

[Zorkorist]

The Democrats will try and tell you they are for the workers, when they are really for the Government (of workers.)

-John