Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
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No, actually it's not. As I already pointed out, in every link provided -- and I believe I read all of them -- there is no evidence that ACORN as an organization has engaged in any wrongdoing. If you, or CAD, or any of the other attack-bots can provide documentation contradicting this, lets see it. Until then, as one of the links states, what we appear to have is multiple instances of dishonest, lazy employees forging cards instead of doing what ACORN actually paid them to do (which is, of course, exactly what I already said, no matter how much Sir Cad huffs and puffs and tries to imply otherwise).
Also, as I said, in the links provided so far there is only one conviction mentioned. That person was given probation. The article acknowledged there was no suggestion this was done to alter election results, but only a bad employee trying to get out of doing his job. That's not to say there may not be other convictions, only that Sir Cad and 351 haven't yet shown them.
So. once again, put up or shut up. Provide specific, credible quotes with links refuting what I said, or accept the fact that this is just another duhversionary smear attempt by the party of lies and corruption. kthxbye
So are you suggesting Republicans are not guilty of ever submitting fraudalent voter registrations?
I love how you label people that think independently as neocons, and reference circle jerking.
I personally do not resort in below the belt attacks against people. I haven't seen CAD do that either. Yet, you feel the need to be insulting because someone views a factual occurrence and comes up with a different conclusion/opinion than the one you have.
Instead of discussing it logically, you dismiss the whole thing out of hand, and start insulting those on the opposite side.
Anyone guilty of it should be held accountable, party affiliation does not matter. If an organization is guilty of it, then they should be held accountable, or get rid of all together those committing the fraud.
OK, lets try this a different way since you can't seem to untwist your panties long enough to rationally address the subject...
Why do you think there have been many many reports of THIS organization having these problems? I've offered 2 logical explainations - "Either ACORN is encouraging this behavior or are purposely turning a blind eye to it." You offered up a "few dishonest, lazy employees" excuse. Now look back over all the links and examples of this going on(prosecuted or not) and then come back in here provide us with what you think is the most rational answer as to why this seems to continually "happen" to ACORN.
:roll: F'n blind hacks...
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
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Really? In his first reply to me: "Are you really that naive or just stuck on stupid?"
Then, in his very next post, to Heyheybooboo, we got: "How old are you? Is this your first election cycle?" and "Stay ignorant if you wish..."
Then, in his next reply to me: "yap yap yap.... same old tired BS from Bowfinger."
Etc.
So, I'm curious, what is your definition of "below the belt attacks"? Don't get me wrong, I'm a big boy, and God knows I'm used to getting attacked by Cad for all sorts of bogus reasons. It's not a problem for me. On the contrary, I often find his desperate flailing and spinning comical. I'm just astounded that you would suggest he doesn't engage in such attacks.
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
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Why? Because I suspect ACORN's hiring standards for this job are pretty low, to put it mildly, and I suspect as a poorly-funded social organization they don't really have the experienced managers and the supervision processes in place to screen all of the work their temps do. My guess is they round up a bunch of minimum wage, third-string temps from the local jobs office, then turn them loose with little supervision. Some of those temps are dishonest and lazy, so instead of getting out and going door to door like they're supposed to, they make up registrations.
While that is a fair reason to criticize ACORN, that doesn't make them corrupt. It just means they're under-funded and over-worked. If you're really so concerned, maybe you should donate a few dollars to help them improve their voter registration efforts.
Hint: referring to yourself in the third person makes you look rather daft. Just sayin'
First, my comment wasn't directed at you. You and CAD are going back and forth accusing each other of being naive, and ignorant. This is normal banter.
The other guy calling all of us in the thread neocons and making references to circle jerking is a below the belt attack.
My original "This is true" statement was in reference, that in my opinion you where not addressing the points and links that CAD was posting. You where instead sticking to the same argument, and rehashing it instead of directly addressing each accusation.
I don't know which is right in this instance. Only that one side of the argument is posting numerous links to back up their claims, and your side is not.
Edited, I said was directed at you, instead of wasn't.
So even if you are correct that they get low quality help - what does that say about the management when they don't even screen the work these people you are blaming do? Don't you think that any organization that has had repeated examples of this type of fraud would take action to prevent it in the future? They have not done so and here again this year we have more examples of their org turning in bogus registrations. YOUR excuses MIGHT be valid IF this was a one or two time thing in the same area org but these aren't isolated incidences - they are widespread.
Meh, stay blind to reality if you wish.... it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last I'm sure...
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
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OK, fair enough.
OK. Again, let me ask, what sort of links could I post to refute their accusations? You know the old saying, you can't prove a negative.
Cad & Co are claiming ACORN is corrupt. It is generally accepted that the one making the claim is responsible for backing up the claim with facts and documentation. What kind of links could I provide to prove otherwise? It seems to me the only thing I can do is point out that their links do not match their accusations. I gave two specific examples of claims they are making that are not supported in the links provided.
Don't mind Bowfinger - he and I go way back. I know he lives near me somewhere so we get into it a bit on the local/state/and fed levels of discussion. He's a lib(he'll claim indepedent though :roll
and I'm a Conservative. We see eye to eye very rarely due to our ideals.
Here a couple more logs to throw on the fire...
embezzlement and hush treatment?
Recent list of "activities"
embezzlement and hush treatment?
Recent list of "activities"
Bowfinger
Lifer
- Nov 17, 2002
- 15,776
- 392
- 126
"as a poorly-funded social organization they don't really have the experienced managers and the supervision processes in place to screen all of the work their temps do."
That does NOT make them corrupt.
There you go again, making assertions not supported by the evidence you've offered. How do you know they've done nothing? Have you ever tried to run an organization of that size? Do you have any management experience at all? I certainly do, and I can tell you they face a difficult challenge with the resources they have. That doesn't mean they aren't trying. It just means they are not yet 100% successful ... nor will they ever be.
You mean the reality that many minimum-wage temps are lazy and dishonest? No shit? Wow, that revelation must surely put you in the running for a Nobel prize in something. (Do they have Nobel prizes for discovering the blindingly obvious?)
Does ACORN need to do a better job? Absolutely. I firmly believe, however, that a reasonable non-partisan would recognize this problem is likely due to the low quality of the people ACORN can afford to hire rather than immediately screeching about corruption. God knows you've been consistently willing to blame the wide spread pattern of BushCo problems on incompetence rather than corruption, in spite of the fact Bush could pick some of the best and brightest people in the country to work for him, at salaries well above minimum wage. If BushCo can't get its act together, why do you demand so much more of ACORN?
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
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Can we expect the usual hillbilly sheriffs deputies to be lined up at the usual polling places on election day to keep the usual 'undesirables' from voting? As usual again this year? If so, then you shouldn't expect anyone to get to upset about this.
Because we all know that the other organizations that do voter registration things like ACORN have the same level/rate of problems.... Oh wait....
Stupid isnt illegal... yet ACORN thugs have pleaded guilty and been convicted in multiple states... and it looks like they are up to it again this year.
But I am sure it is just bad management...
The part that CSG and the usual suspects don't want to talk about is that they have no proof whatsoever that any of the fraudulent registrations have ever voted. Like I said before, it's the kind of fraud that lazy part-time temporary help will pull on their employer- the ascribed intent wrt elections has no basis in fact, but it makes for nice innuendo.
Nice attribution of fraud wrt Oregon's voting methods, CSG- any proof? any at all?
The problem for repubs is that greater registration and turnout generally favors dems, and the prospect scares them half to death...
I think this is another Wahmbulance thread... about how the poor, pitiful repubs are actually afraid of being subject to the will of the people, rather than the limited electorate they'd like to create...
Nice attribution of fraud wrt Oregon's voting methods, CSG- any proof? any at all?
The problem for repubs is that greater registration and turnout generally favors dems, and the prospect scares them half to death...
I think this is another Wahmbulance thread... about how the poor, pitiful repubs are actually afraid of being subject to the will of the people, rather than the limited electorate they'd like to create...
:roll: More REAL voters is perfectly fine with me. There is nothing to the usual lib/DNC yapping point about it scaring Republicans.
About Oregan - I made no accusations - I stated what COULD happen if everyone did similar. There are ZERO checks on who is actually filling out the ballot vs who's supposed to be filling out the ballot. But again that isn't the subject here.
As to "proof" the fraudulent voters ever voted doesn't necessarily matter as the mere act of fake registrations is FRAUD. Also, I'd like to note that voter registration party numbers do matter for party $.
Text
Days after his wife of four decades died of liver cancer, Robert Holmgren came home to find her absentee ballot. He filled in Charlette Holmgren's intended votes for Dino Rossi and George W. Bush, forged her signature, and mailed her ballot along with his.
"I know by the law it wasn't right, but it felt right in my heart," he said. "I wasn't trying to defraud anybody. I was just going with my wife's last wishes."
In six of the state's largest counties, at least 24 dead people were credited with voting in the November election. Some of those can be explained as clerical errors ? a voter mistakenly signing the wrong line in a poll book, for instance ? and others are cases in which people inadvertently voted in their relatives' names but not in their own.
Oh, right. Voter fraud doesn't exist. :roll:
Days after his wife of four decades died of liver cancer, Robert Holmgren came home to find her absentee ballot. He filled in Charlette Holmgren's intended votes for Dino Rossi and George W. Bush, forged her signature, and mailed her ballot along with his.
"I know by the law it wasn't right, but it felt right in my heart," he said. "I wasn't trying to defraud anybody. I was just going with my wife's last wishes."
In six of the state's largest counties, at least 24 dead people were credited with voting in the November election. Some of those can be explained as clerical errors ? a voter mistakenly signing the wrong line in a poll book, for instance ? and others are cases in which people inadvertently voted in their relatives' names but not in their own.
Oh, right. Voter fraud doesn't exist. :roll:
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