Yet another ACORN voter fraud attempt

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Corbett

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
3,074
0
76
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Good to see you've already tried and convicted ACORN, even though there's nothing in the story to suggest they are responsible for wrongdoing (as opposed, for example, to the people they're helping to register). I'm sure they're a bunch of slimy communists anyway, what with helping poor people exercise their right to vote.

But hey, speaking of Michigan voter fraud, there's also this story:
Lose your house, lose your vote

Michigan Republicans plan to foreclose African-American voters

The chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County, Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, is planning to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP?s effort to challenge some voters on Election Day.

?We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren?t voting from those addresses,? party chairman James Carabelli told Michigan Messenger in a telephone interview earlier this week. He said the local party wanted to make sure that proper electoral procedures were followed.

State election rules allow parties to assign ?election challengers? to polls to monitor the election. In addition to observing the poll workers, these volunteers can challenge the eligibility of any voter provided they ?have a good reason to believe? that the person is not eligible to vote. One allowable reason is that the person is not a ?true resident of the city or township.?

The Michigan Republicans? planned use of foreclosure lists is apparently an attempt to challenge ineligible voters as not being ?true residents.?

One expert questioned the legality of the tactic.

?You can?t challenge people without a factual basis for doing so,? said J. Gerald Hebert, a former voting rights litigator for the U.S. Justice Department who now runs the Campaign Legal Center, a Washington D.C.-based public-interest law firm. ?I don?t think a foreclosure notice is sufficient basis for a challenge, because people often remain in their homes after foreclosure begins and sometimes are able to negotiate and refinance.?

As for the practice of challenging the right to vote of foreclosed property owners, Hebert called it, ?mean-spirited.?

GOP ties to state?s largest foreclosure law firm

The Macomb GOP?s plans are another indication of how John McCain?s campaign stands to benefit from the burgeoning number of foreclosures in the state. McCain?s regional headquarters are housed in the office building of foreclosure specialists Trott & Trott. The firm?s founder, David A. Trott, has raised between $100,000 and $250,000 for the Republican nominee.

The Macomb County party?s plans to challenge voters who have defaulted on their house payments is likely to disproportionately affect African-Americans who are overwhelmingly Democratic voters. More than 60 percent of all sub-prime loans ? the most likely kind of loan to go into default ? were made to African-Americans in Michigan, according to a report issued last year by the state?s Department of Labor and Economic Growth.

Challenges to would-be voters

Statewide, the Republican Party is gearing up for a comprehensive voter challenge campaign, according to Denise Graves, party chair for Republicans in Genessee County, which encompasses Flint. The party is creating a spreadsheet of election challenger volunteers and expects to coordinate a training with the regional McCain campaign, Graves said in an interview with Michigan Messenger.

Whether the Republicans will challenge voters with foreclosed homes elsewhere in the state is not known.

Kelly Harrigan, deputy director of the GOP?s voter programs, confirmed that she is coordinating the group?s ?election integrity? program. Harrigan said the effort includes putting in place a legal team, as well as training election challengers. She said the challenges to voters were procedural rather than personal. She referred inquiries about the vote challenge program to communications director Bill Nowling, who promised information but did not return calls.

Party chairman Carabelli said that the Republican Party is training election challengers to ?make sure that [voters] are who they say who they are.?

When asked for further details on how Republicans are compiling challenge lists, he said, ?I would rather not tell you all the things we are doing.?

Vote suppression: Not an isolated effort

Carabelli is not the only Republican Party official to suggest the targeting of foreclosed voters. In Ohio, Doug Preisse, director of elections in Franklin County (around the city of Columbus) and the chair of the local GOP, told The Columbus Dispatch that he has not ruled out challenging voters before the election due to foreclosure-related address issues.

Hebert, the voting-rights lawyer, sees a connection between Priesse?s remarks and Carabelli?s plans.

?At a minimum what you are seeing is a fairly comprehensive effort by the Republican Party, a systematic broad-based effort to put up obstacles for people to vote,? he said. ?Nobody is contending that these people are not legally registered to vote.

?When you are comprehensively challenging people to vote,? Hebert went on, ?your goals are two-fold: One is you are trying to knock people out from casting ballots; the other is to create a slowdown that will discourage others,? who see a long line and realize they can?t afford to stay and wait.

Challenging all voters registered to foreclosed homes could disrupt some polling places, especially in the Detroit metropolitan area. According to the real estate Web site RealtyTrac, one in every 176 households in Wayne County, metropolitan Detroit, received a foreclosure filing during the month of July. In Macomb County, the figure was one household in every 285, meaning that 1,834 homeowners received the bad news in just one month. The Macomb County foreclosure rate puts it in the top three percent of all U.S. counties in the number of distressed homeowners.

Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, Kent and Genessee counties were ? in that order ? the counties with the most homeowners facing foreclosure, according to RealtyTrac. As of July, there were more than 62,000 foreclosure filings in the entire state.

Joe Rozell, director of elections for Oakland County in suburban Detroit, acknowledged that challenges such as those described by Carabelli are allowed by law but said they have the potential to create long lines and disrupt the voting process. With 890,000 potential voters closely divided between Democratic and Republican, Oakland County is a key swing county of this swing state.

According to voter challenge directives handed down by Republican Secretary of State Terri Lynn Land, voter challenges need only be ?based on information obtained through a reliable source or means.?

?But poll workers are not allowed to ask the reason? for the challenges, Rozell said. In other words, Republican vote challengers are free to use foreclosure lists as a basis for disqualifying otherwise eligible voters.

David Lagstein, head organizer with the Michigan Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN), described the plans of the Macomb GOP as ?crazy.?

?You would think they would think, ?This is going to look too heartless,?? said Lagstein, whose group has registered 200,000 new voters statewide this year and also runs a foreclosure avoidance program. ?The Republican-led state Senate has not moved on the anti-predatory lending bill for over a year and yet [Republicans] have time to prey on those who have fallen victim to foreclosure to suppress the vote.?

Typical RNC slime. Lie, cheat, and steal, anything to win an election. It's in this thread.

Bowfinger's claims have been proven to be false in the very thread he used as an excuse to divert attention away from this thread.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
Originally posted by: Mani
Do you really want to get into a partisan pissing match on voter fraud? The republicans have that market pretty much cornered.

Proof? Links? Anyone ever been convicted? If you got the goods, lay them out on the table.


Too many to list, but start with this one. Plenty in it but pay attention to the exit pollster who "hates democrats" that found a 1 in 600,000 chance that the polls could have been so wrong. Here's an exact quote from him:

When you look at the numbers, there is a tremendous amount of data that supports the supposition of election fraud,'' concludes Freeman. ''The discrepancies are higher in battleground states, higher where there were Republican governors, higher in states with greater proportions of African-American communities and higher in states where there were the most Election Day complaints. All these are strong indicators of fraud -- and yet this supposition has been utterly ignored by the press and, oddly, by the Democratic Party.'

But I'm sure that's all just coincidence. :roll:
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Mani
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
Originally posted by: Mani
Do you really want to get into a partisan pissing match on voter fraud? The republicans have that market pretty much cornered.

Proof? Links? Anyone ever been convicted? If you got the goods, lay them out on the table.


Too many to list, but start with this one. Plenty in it but pay attention to the exit pollster who "hates democrats" that found a 1 in 600,000 chance that the polls could have been so wrong. Here's an exact quote from him:

When you look at the numbers, there is a tremendous amount of data that supports the supposition of election fraud,'' concludes Freeman. ''The discrepancies are higher in battleground states, higher where there were Republican governors, higher in states with greater proportions of African-American communities and higher in states where there were the most Election Day complaints. All these are strong indicators of fraud -- and yet this supposition has been utterly ignored by the press and, oddly, by the Democratic Party.'

But I'm sure that's all just coincidence. :roll:

:laugh: Exit polls :laugh:

What exactly does this have to do with ACORN?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
From the ever disingenuous CSG-

As to "proof" the fraudulent voters ever voted doesn't necessarily matter as the mere act of fake registrations is FRAUD. Also, I'd like to note that voter registration party numbers do matter for party $.

In other words, the whole battlecry of "voter fraud" is fraudulent itself, since none of the ghost voters can be shown to have ever voted.

And I think it's great that you're concerned about the welfare of Acorn, CSG, devoting a thread to how some of their part time temporary underpaid help have collected their paychecks by making up fake voter registrations...

Not that it actually affects the election in the slightest, which is what you're attempting to claim through the usual extrapolation...

As for the bit about registration #'s affecting public campaign financing, you're correct, but both major parties far exceed the threshold required so it's just another meaningless obfuscation...

As for the rest of it- would you like some cheese with that Whine? The vast, vast majority of Acorn registrations have withstood the scrutiny of repub SoS's nationwide, and we both know it- can you cite an actual % of their registrations that have been rejected?

Probably not, because the places your information comes from don't want to talk about that....
 

351Cleveland

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2001
1,381
6
81
Originally posted by: Mani
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
Originally posted by: Mani
Do you really want to get into a partisan pissing match on voter fraud? The republicans have that market pretty much cornered.

Proof? Links? Anyone ever been convicted? If you got the goods, lay them out on the table.


Too many to list, but start with this one. Plenty in it but pay attention to the exit pollster who "hates democrats" that found a 1 in 600,000 chance that the polls could have been so wrong. Here's an exact quote from him:

When you look at the numbers, there is a tremendous amount of data that supports the supposition of election fraud,'' concludes Freeman. ''The discrepancies are higher in battleground states, higher where there were Republican governors, higher in states with greater proportions of African-American communities and higher in states where there were the most Election Day complaints. All these are strong indicators of fraud -- and yet this supposition has been utterly ignored by the press and, oddly, by the Democratic Party.'

But I'm sure that's all just coincidence. :roll:

So because POLLS were wrong, there was fraud? Because the MSM got caught AGAIN with it's pants down, it has to be fraud? That's it? No shit that the polls will be wrong in battleground states, the MSM was bending the polls to Kerry's advantage to help him win. Sounds far fetched? No more than an article from Rolling Stone having ANY credibility whatsoever.

Just in case you need it reinforced, some kook's conspiracy theory pblished in Rolling Stone doesnt even have a whif of proof. Try again.
 

Mani

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2001
4,808
1
0
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
Originally posted by: Mani
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
Originally posted by: Mani
Do you really want to get into a partisan pissing match on voter fraud? The republicans have that market pretty much cornered.

Proof? Links? Anyone ever been convicted? If you got the goods, lay them out on the table.


Too many to list, but start with this one. Plenty in it but pay attention to the exit pollster who "hates democrats" that found a 1 in 600,000 chance that the polls could have been so wrong. Here's an exact quote from him:

When you look at the numbers, there is a tremendous amount of data that supports the supposition of election fraud,'' concludes Freeman. ''The discrepancies are higher in battleground states, higher where there were Republican governors, higher in states with greater proportions of African-American communities and higher in states where there were the most Election Day complaints. All these are strong indicators of fraud -- and yet this supposition has been utterly ignored by the press and, oddly, by the Democratic Party.'

But I'm sure that's all just coincidence. :roll:

So because POLLS were wrong, there was fraud? Because the MSM got caught AGAIN with it's pants down, it has to be fraud? That's it? No shit that the polls will be wrong in battleground states, the MSM was bending the polls to Kerry's advantage to help him win. Sounds far fetched? No more than an article from Rolling Stone having ANY credibility whatsoever.

Just in case you need it reinforced, some kook's conspiracy theory pblished in Rolling Stone doesnt even have a whif of proof. Try again.

How did i just know someone would come back with "EVIL LIBERAL MEDIA"!

I swear you guys are all the same. Blame the media, shoot down the source, and provide absolutely no credible evidence to the contrary.

What's really priceless is you calling this article a conspiracy while saying the media (including Fox News) was involved in a conspiracy to rig the exit polls to Kerry's advantage. :laugh:
 

Butterbean

Banned
Oct 12, 2006
918
1
0
Obama's ACORN has been part of the Marxist insurgency operating in the Dem party for along time - and has the conviction record to prove it. They also helped create the sup-prime crisis by pressuring banks to give loans based on quotas more than sound financial practices. Clinton of course re-jiggered the Community Reinvestment Act to also base bank reviews on quantity of loans to at risk people rather than sound loans. Of course ACORN and its lackies will use Lenninist/Stalinist technique of making accusations to make other look guilty for what they themselves do. Fortunately the wider masses are starting to understand how this game is played. ACORN. MoveON, CodePink, ACLU, SEICUS, Gill Foundation, all the Soros groups etc - all these types of groups are being seen for what they are thanks to the central focus provided by BO.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
Originally posted by: winnar111
Text
Days after his wife of four decades died of liver cancer, Robert Holmgren came home to find her absentee ballot. He filled in Charlette Holmgren's intended votes for Dino Rossi and George W. Bush, forged her signature, and mailed her ballot along with his.
"I know by the law it wasn't right, but it felt right in my heart," he said. "I wasn't trying to defraud anybody. I was just going with my wife's last wishes."
In six of the state's largest counties, at least 24 dead people were credited with voting in the November election. Some of those can be explained as clerical errors ? a voter mistakenly signing the wrong line in a poll book, for instance ? and others are cases in which people inadvertently voted in their relatives' names but not in their own.

Oh, right. Voter fraud doesn't exist. :roll:
The article states that in six of the largest counties in the state of Washington, there were all of three demonstrable cases of voter fraud; the one case in which the political affiliation of the fraudulent voter was disclosed, he was a Republican. Your point about widespread Democratic voter fraud is well taken.


winnar111: once again, right on target.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Obama's ACORN has been part of the Marxist insurgency operating in the Dem party for along time - and has the conviction record to prove it. They also helped create the sup-prime crisis by pressuring banks to give loans based on quotas more than sound financial practices. Clinton of course re-jiggered the Community Reinvestment Act to also base bank reviews on quantity of loans to at risk people rather than sound loans. Of course ACORN and its lackies will use Leninist/Stalinist technique of making accusations to make other look guilty for what they themselves do. Fortunately the wider masses are starting to understand how this game is played. ACORN. MoveON, CodePink, ACLU, SEICUS, Gill Foundation, all the Soros groups etc - all these types of groups are being seen for what they are thanks to the central focus provided by BO.
I was going to post some glib, sarcastic, dismissive comment about the above, but words, for once, entirely fail me.
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Originally posted by: Vic
Can we expect the usual hillbilly sheriffs deputies to be lined up at the usual polling places on election day to keep the usual 'undesirables' from voting? As usual again this year? If so, then you shouldn't expect anyone to get to upset about this.

So many victims so little time.....
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Corbett
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Good to see you've already tried and convicted ACORN, even though there's nothing in the story to suggest they are responsible for wrongdoing (as opposed, for example, to the people they're helping to register). I'm sure they're a bunch of slimy communists anyway, what with helping poor people exercise their right to vote.

But hey, speaking of Michigan voter fraud, there's also this story:
Lose your house, lose your vote

Michigan Republicans plan to foreclose African-American voters

The chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County, Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, is planning to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP?s effort to challenge some voters on Election Day.

?We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren?t voting from those addresses,? party chairman James Carabelli told Michigan Messenger in a telephone interview earlier this week. He said the local party wanted to make sure that proper electoral procedures were followed.

[ ... Remainder trimmed ... ]
Typical RNC slime. Lie, cheat, and steal, anything to win an election. It's in this thread.
Bowfinger's claims have been proven to be false in the very thread he used as an excuse to divert attention away from this thread.
First, they weren't my claims. They were the claims of The Michigan Messenger. Second, perhaps you should look up the word "proven", because it does not mean what you seem to think it means. The claims were not "proven false". They were denied by the Michigan GOP. Huge difference.

Did you think Clinton was proven innocent as soon as he stood up and said "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"? Yeah, somehow I didn't think so. Yet you view this story through your partisan blinders and immediately conclude it is "proven false" just because the GOP says so. How naive. If every story in P&N were considered "proven false" as soon as someone denied it, pretty much every thread would consist of exactly two posts.

In any case, The Michigan Messenger has issued a rebuttal of its own. It stands by its story:
Messenger rejects GOP plea for retraction
By Jefferson Morley 9/12/08 5:43 PM

The Michigan Republican Party is demanding, via press release, a retraction of the Michigan Messenger story ?Lose your house, lose your vote.?

In the article, Macomb County Republican Party chairman James Carabelli was quoted as saying, ?We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren?t voting from those addresses.?

Carabelli contends the quotes as reported by Eartha Jane Melzer were ?fabricated.? State Republican chairman Saul Anuzis charges the story is a ?complete fabrication.?

The story will not be retracted because Carabelli?s and Anuzis? claims are without merit. The quotes were accurately reported. Melzer, the Michigan Messenger and the Center for Independent Media stand behind this story 100 percent.

It is worth noting that Carabelli and Anuzis have yet to send the demand for a retraction to Melzer, the Messenger?s editors or the Center for Independent Media. To make such a far-fetched charge to other media outlets but not to us suggests that their motivation may be more political than factual.


The facts are these:

On Monday afternoon, Eartha Melzer called the Macomb County Republican Party as part of her coverage of preparations for Election Day in Michigan.

Melzer was put in touch with Carabelli and spoke with him around 4 p.m.

Her notes show that she asked him about plans to have election challengers at the polls on Election Day. As they spoke, she typed a question about Republican voter challengers: ?How will they know if the addresses match? How will you know which addresses to check??

Her notes show that Carabelli responded, ?We will have a list of foreclosed homes and will make sure people aren?t voting from those addresses.?

Melzer?s notes then show she asked a follow-up question: ?How will you know people are who they say they are??

Carabelli responded, ?I would rather not tell you all the things we are doing.?

Eartha Melzer is a prize-winning journalist. Her string of investigative reports on Sovereign Deed, a private security firm whose founder faked a military record in order to get tax breaks from the state, won honorable mention for the National Press Club?s 2008 Sandy Hume award given for excellence in political journalism.

I edited Melzer?s article. I have been a Washington journalist for 28 years. From 1992 to 2007, I was an editor and reporter for the Sunday Outlook section, the Style section and the Metro Section of the Washington Post, as well as an editor and columnist for washingtonpost.com. Needless to say, I have never reported, edited or published a story that included fabricated quotes.

We are not partisans of the Democratic Party, as alleged in the press release. Case in point: When Gov. Jennifer Granholm, a liberal Democrat, arranged tax breaks for Sovereign Deed, our coverage was critical. As a nonprofit, nonpartisan news organization, we do not favor any party. We favor accountability.

Carabelli?s and Anuzis? unsupported insinuations are unfortunate. We hope they will be withdrawn when the heat of the moment passes.

As for Anuzis? assertion that ?There is no such plan [to use foreclosure lists to challenge voters], and there never will be such a plan,? we hope this is true.

If the Michigan Republican Party truly has no plans to challenge voters based on foreclosure addresses, we are happy to hear it. We agree there is no place for such voter suppression tactics in Michigan or any other state in 2008.

As Ronald Reagan said, ?Trust but verify.? We trust Anuzis? new position, and we will verify it in the weeks to come.
In short, while the story is certainly in question, it has equally certainly not been "proven false."
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Obama's ACORN has been part of the Marxist insurgency operating in the Dem party for along time - and has the conviction record to prove it. They also helped create the sup-prime crisis by pressuring banks to give loans based on quotas more than sound financial practices. Clinton of course re-jiggered the Community Reinvestment Act to also base bank reviews on quantity of loans to at risk people rather than sound loans. Of course ACORN and its lackies will use Leninist/Stalinist technique of making accusations to make other look guilty for what they themselves do. Fortunately the wider masses are starting to understand how this game is played. ACORN. MoveON, CodePink, ACLU, SEICUS, Gill Foundation, all the Soros groups etc - all these types of groups are being seen for what they are thanks to the central focus provided by BO.
I was going to post some glib, sarcastic, dismissive comment about the above, but words, for once, entirely fail me.
Yeah, Butterbean pretty well discredits himself in every post he makes. Any further rebuttals are redundant.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
Originally posted by: BowfingerThere you go again, making assertions not supported by the evidence you've offered. How do you know they've done nothing? Have you ever tried to run an organization of that size? Do you have any management experience at all? I certainly do, and I can tell you they face a difficult challenge with the resources they have. That doesn't mean they aren't trying. It just means they are not yet 100% successful ... nor will they ever be.

You mean the reality that many minimum-wage temps are lazy and dishonest? No shit? Wow, that revelation must surely put you in the running for a Nobel prize in something. (Do they have Nobel prizes for discovering the blindingly obvious?)

Does ACORN need to do a better job? Absolutely. I firmly believe, however, that a reasonable non-partisan would recognize this problem is likely due to the low quality of the people ACORN can afford to hire rather than immediately screeching about corruption. God knows you've been consistently willing to blame the wide spread pattern of BushCo problems on incompetence rather than corruption, in spite of the fact Bush could pick some of the best and brightest people in the country to work for him, at salaries well above minimum wage. If BushCo can't get its act together, why do you demand so much more of ACORN?
Stupid isnt illegal... yet ACORN thugs have pleaded guilty and been convicted in multiple states... and it looks like they are up to it again this year.

But I am sure it is just bad management...
Excuse me, but as I've already pointed out, your links don't support your claims. From the links you provided, exactly one ACORN temp pleaded guilty and was given probation. That story explicitly stated there was no indication this employee acted with any partisan motivation, merely dishonest and lazy. There is nothing in your links suggesting ACORN as an organization has engaged in any intentional voter registration fraud.

Those are the facts based on the links you provided. If you have something more, by all means produce it. Otherwise, you're just blowing partisan smoke.
 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
Originally posted by: winnar111
Text
Days after his wife of four decades died of liver cancer, Robert Holmgren came home to find her absentee ballot. He filled in Charlette Holmgren's intended votes for Dino Rossi and George W. Bush, forged her signature, and mailed her ballot along with his.
"I know by the law it wasn't right, but it felt right in my heart," he said. "I wasn't trying to defraud anybody. I was just going with my wife's last wishes."
In six of the state's largest counties, at least 24 dead people were credited with voting in the November election. Some of those can be explained as clerical errors ? a voter mistakenly signing the wrong line in a poll book, for instance ? and others are cases in which people inadvertently voted in their relatives' names but not in their own.

Oh, right. Voter fraud doesn't exist. :roll:
The article states that in six of the largest counties in the state of Washington, there were all of three demonstrable cases of voter fraud; the one case in which the political affiliation of the fraudulent voter was disclosed, he was a Republican. Your point about widespread Democratic voter fraud is well taken.


winnar111: once again, right on target.

Who said voter fraud is confined to one political party?

If these people can do it, anyone else can, which is why we need to make sure John Smith of 100 main street is actually John Smith of 100 main street?
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
The other guy calling all of us in the thread neocons and making references to circle jerking is a below the belt attack.
But if you and other neocons really ARE circle jerking then it would HAVE to be below the belt, wouldn't it? Unless your anatomy is very peculiar.

 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
Originally posted by: winnar111
Who said voter fraud is confined to one political party?
If these people can do it, anyone else can, which is why we need to make sure John Smith of 100 main street is actually John Smith of 100 main street?
So three probable cases of voter fraud in six counties with a total population of over 3.5 million is a serious problem. Given 820,000 voters in those counties (if they voted at the same rate as the overall rate for the state), that gives you an approximate rate of 1 fraudulent vote per 273,000 votes, or less than 0.001%. I see the cause of your concern.


edit: late night math skills suck.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136




from Bowfinger-

First, they weren't my claims. They were the claims of The Michigan Messenger. Second, perhaps you should look up the word "proven", because it does not mean what you seem to think it means. The claims were not "proven false". They were denied by the Michigan GOP. Huge difference.

Not in the minds of the Faithful. The moment some repub talking head issues a denial, that's all the "proof" they need. Hell, when Dick Cheney made bogus claims wrt Iraq, they believe the claims and believe the denial all at the same time...

In a different era, the applicable term was "brainwashing"- today, it's "Faith based" thinking. Ever so much nicer, don't you think?
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
from Bowfinger-

First, they weren't my claims. They were the claims of The Michigan Messenger. Second, perhaps you should look up the word "proven", because it does not mean what you seem to think it means. The claims were not "proven false". They were denied by the Michigan GOP. Huge difference.

Not in the minds of the Faithful. The moment some repub talking head issues a denial, that's all the "proof" they need. Hell, when Dick Cheney made bogus claims wrt Iraq, they believe the claims and believe the denial all at the same time...

In a different era, the applicable term was "brainwashing"- today, it's "Faith based" thinking. Ever so much nicer, don't you think?
Whatever they want to call it, however they need to rationalize it, the result is bad government with no accountability to We, the People. I often wonder if our founding fathers, seeing what their America has become, wouldn't say "Oh, screw it. Long live the King." Their whole premise for democracy hinged on an informed and vigilant citizenry that would demand our government remain responsible to the People.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Jhhnn




from Bowfinger-

First, they weren't my claims. They were the claims of The Michigan Messenger. Second, perhaps you should look up the word "proven", because it does not mean what you seem to think it means. The claims were not "proven false". They were denied by the Michigan GOP. Huge difference.

Not in the minds of the Faithful. The moment some repub talking head issues a denial, that's all the "proof" they need. Hell, when Dick Cheney made bogus claims wrt Iraq, they believe the claims and believe the denial all at the same time...

In a different era, the applicable term was "brainwashing"- today, it's "Faith based" thinking. Ever so much nicer, don't you think?

Take your diversions to a different thread.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
From the ever disingenuous CSG-

As to "proof" the fraudulent voters ever voted doesn't necessarily matter as the mere act of fake registrations is FRAUD. Also, I'd like to note that voter registration party numbers do matter for party $.

In other words, the whole battlecry of "voter fraud" is fraudulent itself, since none of the ghost voters can be shown to have ever voted.

And I think it's great that you're concerned about the welfare of Acorn, CSG, devoting a thread to how some of their part time temporary underpaid help have collected their paychecks by making up fake voter registrations...

Not that it actually affects the election in the slightest, which is what you're attempting to claim through the usual extrapolation...

As for the bit about registration #'s affecting public campaign financing, you're correct, but both major parties far exceed the threshold required so it's just another meaningless obfuscation...

As for the rest of it- would you like some cheese with that Whine? The vast, vast majority of Acorn registrations have withstood the scrutiny of repub SoS's nationwide, and we both know it- can you cite an actual % of their registrations that have been rejected?

Probably not, because the places your information comes from don't want to talk about that....

Uhh... hello? try actually reading what I post for once, it'll help you not post stupid replies like ^.
Do you not understand that fake registrations is FRAUD? What about the person who had their registration changed by one of these thugs? That isn't voter fraud to you? It's VOTER REGISTRATION. Anything fraudulent regarding the voting process is VOTER FRAUD.

MEh, people like you will likely never understand...(deleted union thug comment here)
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Take your diversions to a different thread.
:laugh:

Get over yourself Cad. Your entire thread about a bunch of lazy temps is itself a pathetic diversion from the very real, very material election tampering efforts of the GOP.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
yap yap yap.... same old tired BS from Bowfinger.

The irony.

Why can't you just acknowledge that the organization has a history of fraud? It's all right there, all you have to do is take your blinders off to admit the truth.

Have you admitted the broad voter fraud of the Republican Part of Florida and Ohio, among others?
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Take your diversions to a different thread.
:laugh:

Get over yourself Cad. Your entire thread about a bunch of lazy temps is itself a pathetic diversion from the very real, very material election tampering efforts of the GOP.

Sure is a nasty web of lazy and dishonest "temps"... :roll:

THIS thread is about ACORN. There are other threads for you to post in about the supposed GOP fraud, quit diverting this thread with that nonsense.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
yap yap yap.... same old tired BS from Bowfinger.

The irony.

Why can't you just acknowledge that the organization has a history of fraud? It's all right there, all you have to do is take your blinders off to admit the truth.

Have you admitted the broad voter fraud of the Republican Part of Florida and Ohio, among others?

This thread is about ACORN. Please stay on topic. IF I post in one of your supposed GOP fraud threads then the question is more than fair but it's nothing but an attempt at diversion in this one.
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
[Uhh... hello? try actually reading what I post for once, it'll help you not post stupid replies like ^.
Do you not understand that fake registrations is FRAUD? What about the person who had their registration changed by one of these thugs? That isn't voter fraud to you? It's VOTER REGISTRATION. Anything fraudulent regarding the voting process is VOTER FRAUD.

MEh, people like you will likely never understand...(deleted union thug comment here)
Thugs? These lazy temps are thugs now? Good God, you've gone from drinking the Kool Aid to sucking it in through an IV.

You're right about one thing though. It is fraud, and it should be prosecuted. It is registration fraud, however, not voter fraud, which I believe was Jhhnn's point (if you'd "try actually reading what [others] post for once, it'll help you not post stupid replies like ^." If you can show that any of these phony registrations ever turned into votes, then you can talk about voter fraud. (And again, I agree, that should be prosecuted.)

What it also is NOT is proof that ACORN itself is corrupt, which was, of course, your original accusation. Can we assume you've stopped beating that dead horse?

Finally, you would have a lot more credibility if you put even one-tenth the energy and (feigned) outrage you've shown here into blasting the widespread, well-documented instances of various GOP operatives acting to commit voting fraud and disenfranchise certain classes of voters. Strangely enough, the only "fraud" that seems to draw your attention is this penny-ante stuff that might favor Democrats. I wonder why that is.