Yet another 5-year old girl arrested, handcuffed at school

[mordantmonkey]

i don't see what people are so outraged about. it's not like the cops beat the crap out of her with their batons. she deserved what she got. people shouldn't be allowed to assault others or destroy property, i don't care if your 5 or 50. teachers should be allowed to restrain little spoiled brats. but since they're not, due to our outstanding legal system, the school district has no choice but to call the cops.
i'm sure there would be an equal law suit if the teacher restrained the girl and ended up bruising her wrists or some such.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Wheezer

What is surprising is that they handcuffed and arrested a FIVE YEAR OLD. Kids that age have temper tantrums on a fairly regular basis. Calling it assault is pretty ridiculous, IMO.

Tell you what, I will let a five year old kick you repeatedly in the shins...after about 5 minutes you let me know how it feels....that is of course the five year old does not break his or her foot in the process....which there is a reason for restraint on it's own (prevention of self injury)

The proper action is to call the parent and have the kid taken home, if anything.

So in the meantime waiting for parent to get to the school the child:

a- Injures herself in which case the
1-Teacher
2-School
3- city
4- county
5- state
6- all of the above
are held responsible for not calling someone to restrain her (see the conundrum?)

b- she injures another student in which case all stated above applies

Why do police need to be involved in cases such as this? Maybe if the kid had a gun, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

So according to your statement, the ONLY reason a child should be removed by authorites is because he/she poses a threat with a weapon...injury to themselves or others cannot happen in any other form. Since there was no weapon, therefore no threat and so no one but the parents should be involved.....I see.

Please don't ever work at an elementary school.

lol...is that the best answer you can come up with? See I adressed your points, point by point...and you can't do the same so you give a lame response such as that? Maybe you are looking at it from a totaly different perspective that I am, BUT I did follow what YOU SAID, NOT what you implied or were meaning to say...

Now again to go by what you said you obviously don't feel I am capable of working with children, well I would agree to a certain point ONLY because I do not interact with them every day but I do know enough that I would do what ever was necessary to prevent them from hurting themselves and/or each other. Using your statements as a reflection of your logic....i.e. 5 year olds throw tantrums all the time, which ultimately translates to: children will be children...I will follow that logic and say that teenage boys will be teenage boys and should two of them get into a fight, then the teacher should NOT call authorities and sepreate them, the parents should be called FIRST and until the parents arrive the boys should be allowed to duke it out, because ONLY the parents have the right or ablility to bring resolution to the situation.

Now if that is not what you meant by your statement, then choose your words more carefully.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Wheezer

What is surprising is that they handcuffed and arrested a FIVE YEAR OLD. Kids that age have temper tantrums on a fairly regular basis. Calling it assault is pretty ridiculous, IMO.

Tell you what, I will let a five year old kick you repeatedly in the shins...after about 5 minutes you let me know how it feels....that is of course the five year old does not break his or her foot in the process....which there is a reason for restraint on it's own (prevention of self injury)

The proper action is to call the parent and have the kid taken home, if anything.

So in the meantime waiting for parent to get to the school the child:

a- Injures herself in which case the
1-Teacher
2-School
3- city
4- county
5- state
6- all of the above
are held responsible for not calling someone to restrain her (see the conundrum?)

b- she injures another student in which case all stated above applies

Why do police need to be involved in cases such as this? Maybe if the kid had a gun, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

So according to your statement, the ONLY reason a child should be removed by authorites is because he/she poses a threat with a weapon...injury to themselves or others cannot happen in any other form. Since there was no weapon, therefore no threat and so no one but the parents should be involved.....I see.

Please don't ever work at an elementary school.

lol...is that the best answer you can come up with? See I adressed your points, point by point...and you can't do the same so you give a lame response such as that? Maybe you are looking at it from a totaly different perspective that I am, BUT I did follow what YOU SAID, NOT what you implied or were meaning to say...

Now again to go by what you said you obviously don't feel I am capable of working with children, well I would agree to a certain point ONLY because I do not interact with them every day but I do know enough that I would do what ever was necessary to prevent them from hurting themselves and/or each other. Using your statements as a reflection of your logic....i.e. 5 year olds throw tantrums all the time, which ultimately translates to: children will be children...I will follow that logic and say that teenage boys will be teenage boys and should two of them get into a fight, then the teacher should NOT call authorities and sepreate them, the parents should be called FIRST and until the parents arrive the boys should be allowed to duke it out, because ONLY the parents have the right or ablility to bring resolution to the situation.

Now if that is not what you meant by your statement, then choose your words more carefully.

Psst... weren't my points. Direct yourself to another.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Wheezer

What is surprising is that they handcuffed and arrested a FIVE YEAR OLD. Kids that age have temper tantrums on a fairly regular basis. Calling it assault is pretty ridiculous, IMO.

Tell you what, I will let a five year old kick you repeatedly in the shins...after about 5 minutes you let me know how it feels....that is of course the five year old does not break his or her foot in the process....which there is a reason for restraint on it's own (prevention of self injury)

The proper action is to call the parent and have the kid taken home, if anything.

So in the meantime waiting for parent to get to the school the child:

a- Injures herself in which case the
1-Teacher
2-School
3- city
4- county
5- state
6- all of the above
are held responsible for not calling someone to restrain her (see the conundrum?)

b- she injures another student in which case all stated above applies

Why do police need to be involved in cases such as this? Maybe if the kid had a gun, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

So according to your statement, the ONLY reason a child should be removed by authorites is because he/she poses a threat with a weapon...injury to themselves or others cannot happen in any other form. Since there was no weapon, therefore no threat and so no one but the parents should be involved.....I see.

Please don't ever work at an elementary school.

lol...is that the best answer you can come up with? See I adressed your points, point by point...and you can't do the same so you give a lame response such as that? Maybe you are looking at it from a totaly different perspective that I am, BUT I did follow what YOU SAID, NOT what you implied or were meaning to say...

Now again to go by what you said you obviously don't feel I am capable of working with children, well I would agree to a certain point ONLY because I do not interact with them every day but I do know enough that I would do what ever was necessary to prevent them from hurting themselves and/or each other. Using your statements as a reflection of your logic....i.e. 5 year olds throw tantrums all the time, which ultimately translates to: children will be children...I will follow that logic and say that teenage boys will be teenage boys and should two of them get into a fight, then the teacher should NOT call authorities and sepreate them, the parents should be called FIRST and until the parents arrive the boys should be allowed to duke it out, because ONLY the parents have the right or ablility to bring resolution to the situation.

Now if that is not what you meant by your statement, then choose your words more carefully.

Psst... weren't my points. Direct yourself to another.

psst...point taken, but since you decided to quote my quotes then I re-direct my questions to you.....respond with something more substatial than "please don't work at a elementary school" Obviously you feel I was wrong in my response...so address it.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: Wheezer

What is surprising is that they handcuffed and arrested a FIVE YEAR OLD. Kids that age have temper tantrums on a fairly regular basis. Calling it assault is pretty ridiculous, IMO.

Tell you what, I will let a five year old kick you repeatedly in the shins...after about 5 minutes you let me know how it feels....that is of course the five year old does not break his or her foot in the process....which there is a reason for restraint on it's own (prevention of self injury)

The proper action is to call the parent and have the kid taken home, if anything.

So in the meantime waiting for parent to get to the school the child:

a- Injures herself in which case the
1-Teacher
2-School
3- city
4- county
5- state
6- all of the above
are held responsible for not calling someone to restrain her (see the conundrum?)

b- she injures another student in which case all stated above applies

Why do police need to be involved in cases such as this? Maybe if the kid had a gun, but that doesn't appear to be the case.

So according to your statement, the ONLY reason a child should be removed by authorites is because he/she poses a threat with a weapon...injury to themselves or others cannot happen in any other form. Since there was no weapon, therefore no threat and so no one but the parents should be involved.....I see.

Please don't ever work at an elementary school.

lol...is that the best answer you can come up with? See I adressed your points, point by point...and you can't do the same so you give a lame response such as that? Maybe you are looking at it from a totaly different perspective that I am, BUT I did follow what YOU SAID, NOT what you implied or were meaning to say...

Now again to go by what you said you obviously don't feel I am capable of working with children, well I would agree to a certain point ONLY because I do not interact with them every day but I do know enough that I would do what ever was necessary to prevent them from hurting themselves and/or each other. Using your statements as a reflection of your logic....i.e. 5 year olds throw tantrums all the time, which ultimately translates to: children will be children...I will follow that logic and say that teenage boys will be teenage boys and should two of them get into a fight, then the teacher should NOT call authorities and sepreate them, the parents should be called FIRST and until the parents arrive the boys should be allowed to duke it out, because ONLY the parents have the right or ablility to bring resolution to the situation.

Now if that is not what you meant by your statement, then choose your words more carefully.

Psst... weren't my points. Direct yourself to another.

psst...point taken, but since you decided to quote my quotes then I re-direct my questions to you.....respond with something more substatial than "please don't work at a elementary school" Obviously you feel I was wrong in my response...so address it.

Wrong, because you're turning a 5-year-old into some sort of mad assaulter or something. C'mon, people need to grow some balls and handle it. Isolate the child if need be until she calms down, but under no circumstances should the cops be called for a 5-year-old (except maybe a gun), but I STILL wouldn't EVER recommend handcuffing a child that age. Ridiculous.

Besides there are other ways to subdue a child. As having dealt with children with behaviorial problems, I know this is the case.

 

[yllus]

It sucks that it's come to this, but considering that she "threw books and boxes, kicked a teacher in the shins, smashed a candy dish, hit an assistant principal in the stomach and drew on the walls", hell, this is probably the best option.

I'm trying to think of alternatives:
- Talk to her. She ignores you and hits you again in the stomach.

- Call the parents. Kid destroys half the office in the meantime.

- Restrain her yourself. Lawsuit if she suffers the tinest scratch, allegations of inappropriate touching...

- Call the cops and let them take the heat. Best option for the school, but now the police are forced to make the decision, of which cuffing was probably the best option. Taser? Nightstick? Pop her twice with the gat? A little overboard. 😛

Edit: In addition, it seems sort of appropriate to cuff her and lead her away to the cruiser. If that won't put some starch into the kid's shirt and scare her straight, then nothing will. You really can't make the argument, "Why didn't they just reason with her." Reason with a tantrum-throwing 5 year old who's already turned violent who, considering her mother's moronic words, I have no doubt have never seen a day of discipline in her life? Good luck!

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: yllus
It sucks that it's come to this, but considering that she "threw books and boxes, kicked a teacher in the shins, smashed a candy dish, hit an assistant principal in the stomach and drew on the walls", hell, this is probably the best option.

I'm trying to think of alternatives:
- Talk to her. She ignores you and hits you again in the stomach.

- Call the parents. Kid destroys half the office in the meantime.

- Restrain her yourself. Lawsuit if she suffers the tinest scratch, allegations of inappropriate touching...

- Call the cops and let them take the heat. Best option for the school, but now the police are forced to make the decision, of which cuffing was probably the best option. Taser? Nightstick? Pop her twice with the gat? A little overboard. 😛

Shall I buy a violin for the horrific drama?

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Shall I buy a violin for the horrific drama?

Definitely! You can learn to play it to accompany the steady dripping of your crocodile tears. Pooooooor girl, such a victim!

 

[judasmachine]

if she had disiplined the child at home the state wouldn't have to do it for her.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Shall I buy a violin for the horrific drama?

Definitely! You can learn to play it to accompany the steady dripping of your crocadile tears. Pooooooor girl, such a victim!

Of course she's the victim, she's 5!!! My feelings on this aren't ones of crocodile tears, so please be quiet in that regard.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Shall I buy a violin for the horrific drama?

Definitely! You can learn to play it to accompany the steady dripping of your crocadile tears. Pooooooor girl, such a victim!

Of course she's the victim, she's 5!!! My feelings on this aren't ones of crocodile tears, so please be quiet in that regard.

She's not a victim unless she had absolutely no understanding of right and wrong. A five year old knows that hitting people and breaking stuff is wrong.

Nobody wants to see the kid led away to a cruiser, but we'd all like to hear what the alternative for the police, having been called into this distasteful situation, was? Not to mention shocking the kid into realizing that violent action can have serious results isn't a bad lesson for even a five-year-old to learn.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Shall I buy a violin for the horrific drama?

Definitely! You can learn to play it to accompany the steady dripping of your crocadile tears. Pooooooor girl, such a victim!

Of course she's the victim, she's 5!!! My feelings on this aren't ones of crocodile tears, so please be quiet in that regard.

She's not a victim unless she had absolutely no understanding of right and wrong. A five year old knows that hitting people and breaking stuff is wrong.

Nobody wants to see the kid led away to a cruiser, but we'd all like to hear what the alternative for the police, having been called into this distasteful situation, was? Not to mention shocking the kid into realizing that violent action can have serious results isn't a bad lesson for even a five-year-old to learn.

Jesus Christ, she's f'ing 5!!!

See the locked thread for my further views.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Shall I buy a violin for the horrific drama?

Definitely! You can learn to play it to accompany the steady dripping of your crocadile tears. Pooooooor girl, such a victim!

Of course she's the victim, she's 5!!! My feelings on this aren't ones of crocodile tears, so please be quiet in that regard.

She's not a victim unless she had absolutely no understanding of right and wrong. A five year old knows that hitting people and breaking stuff is wrong.

Nobody wants to see the kid led away to a cruiser, but we'd all like to hear what the alternative for the police, having been called into this distasteful situation, was? Not to mention shocking the kid into realizing that violent action can have serious results isn't a bad lesson for even a five-year-old to learn.

Jesus Christ, she's f'ing 5!!!

See the locked thread for my further views.

Jesus Christ, your emotional outbursts about her age accomplish nothing!!!

The police, on the other hand, were appointed as the final arbiters of bringing the situation to an end. They did so without violence and without further damage being caused. Seeing a 5-year-old led away in cuffs is desirable to noone, but what was the alternative?

 

[Sunbird]

So Darkhawk28, what would you have been saying as she was punching you in the gut?

"(insert name here), you (ugggghhh!) are behaving badly, please (ugggghhh!) stop!" ?

Edit: Edited to put in obligatory getting-punched-in-gut noises

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Shall I buy a violin for the horrific drama?

Definitely! You can learn to play it to accompany the steady dripping of your crocadile tears. Pooooooor girl, such a victim!

Of course she's the victim, she's 5!!! My feelings on this aren't ones of crocodile tears, so please be quiet in that regard.

She's not a victim unless she had absolutely no understanding of right and wrong. A five year old knows that hitting people and breaking stuff is wrong.

Nobody wants to see the kid led away to a cruiser, but we'd all like to hear what the alternative for the police, having been called into this distasteful situation, was? Not to mention shocking the kid into realizing that violent action can have serious results isn't a bad lesson for even a five-year-old to learn.

Jesus Christ, she's f'ing 5!!!

See the locked thread for my further views.

Jesus Christ, your emotional outbursts about her age accomplish nothing!!!

The police, on the other hand, were appointed as the final arbiters of bringing the situation to an end. They did so without violence and without further damage being caused. Seeing a 5-year-old led away in cuffs is desirable to noone, but what was the alternative?

If you can't handle a tiny 5-year-old, then you need to find another job. How do you handle it? Please read the locked thread.

 

[Darkhawk28]

Let me ask you this: What's next?

 

[Sunbird]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I'm all for disciplining a child, but that's up to the parent to do so, not the teachers (at least not physical disciplining) and CERTAINLY not cops to do it.

Read the other thread and quoted from there.

So, what do you suggest happens if the parents do not discipline the child at all at home, and the teachers can not physically touch the child to restrain her from injuring others and destroying property?

What would you do?

 

[CaptnKirk]

The Ramones were right -

Beat on the brat
Beat on the brat
Beat on the brat with a baseball bat
Oh yeah, oh yeah, uh-oh.

What can you do?
What can you do?
With a brat like that always on your back
What can you do? (lose?)

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Sunbird

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
I'm all for disciplining a child, but that's up to the parent to do so, not the teachers (at least not physical disciplining) and CERTAINLY not cops to do it.

Read the other thread and quoted from there.

So, what do you suggest happens if the parents do not discipline the child at all at home, and the teachers can not physically touch the child to restrain her from injuring others and destroying property?

What would you do?

Teachers CAN physically touch a child to restrain her. That's such a copout. The teacher needs to isolate the child in some form or fashion until she cools down, call the parent and request a hearing to determine if counseling is needed.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
if she had disiplined the child at home the state wouldn't have to do it for her.

:thumbsup: Exactly!

From the second link posted (St. Petersberg Times):

As she [the arrested girl's mother] spoke, her three children rambled through the apartment. The girl, the oldest child, rode a pink bicycle through the living room, one of the training wheels missing. Her brother got up on a table and swatted a light fixture, laughing.

And no mention was made of a father. Sounds like a zoo there. Apparently, the mother's leaving it up to the school system to raise her children. Sad. :roll:

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: judasmachine
if she had disiplined the child at home the state wouldn't have to do it for her.

:thumbsup: Exactly!

From the second link posted (St. Petersberg Times):

As she [the arrested girl's mother] spoke, her three children rambled through the apartment. The girl, the oldest child, rode a pink bicycle through the living room, one of the training wheels missing. Her brother got up on a table and swatted a light fixture, laughing.

And no mention was made of a father. Sounds like a zoo there. Apparently, the mother's leaving it up to the school system to raise her children. Sad. :roll:

Again, the child is 5 and doesn't know better (for whatever reason). If that mother is unfit (which seems to be the case), then appropriate steps must be taken.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Shall I buy a violin for the horrific drama?

Definitely! You can learn to play it to accompany the steady dripping of your crocadile tears. Pooooooor girl, such a victim!

Of course she's the victim, she's 5!!! My feelings on this aren't ones of crocodile tears, so please be quiet in that regard.

Shes not a victim, in the eyes of the court, shes a problem child. The school and cops didnt do anything wrong, and now the kid will be sent off to special schools because of bad parenting. Theres a big difference between temper tantrum and going on a rage breaking stuff and being unruly.

And no a teacher CANNOT physcially touch a child to restrain them and not be investigated and or sued.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Who hires the lawyer(s) ? Who submits the case to the court system ? Who agrues the case ?

P.S. On a side not most of these types of cases are civil cases done in front of juries and not decided by judges.

Who renders the final decision?

We are arguing semantics here.

The jury of her parentes peers....aka you and me and everyone else serving in a jury. The judge in civil matters decides on the amount awarded.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: Genx87

Who hires the lawyer(s) ? Who submits the case to the court system ? Who agrues the case ?

P.S. On a side not most of these types of cases are civil cases done in front of juries and not decided by judges.

Who renders the final decision?

We are arguing semantics here.

The jury of her parentes peers....aka you and me and everyone else serving in a jury. The judge in civil matters decides on the amount awarded.

In most states judges can throw out a juries verdict.

 

[Kibbo]

Umm. . . the child needed to be physically restrained. She was a danger to herself.

Has your education system become this hamstrung by litigation? Or is that just the perception?

Here in Canada, a teacher has the legal right to use the same force that a reasonable parent or guardian could use, though of course corporal punishment for pure dicipline is against policy. But they sure have the right to restrain physically when safety is an issue.