YASST: 3 kids + 3 adults dead in latest school shooting...

[pcgeek11]

Something similar, but you could google "gun raffles in WV" and see two rather large ones (like 30+ guns in each) as some of the prizes.

This stuff is out there, just depends on locality.

Gun Raffles must still comply with the ATF requirements for transferring the weapon that is raffled.

How may a licensee participate in the raffling of firearms by an unlicensed organization? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Depending on how the organization arranges for the firearms to be transferred to the raffle winner, the licensee’s participation may vary. Example 1 A licensee transfers a firearm to the organization sponsoring the raffle. The representative acting on behalf of the organization must complete the...

www.atf.gov

 

[hal2kilo]

No, it's "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself." The solipsistic distinction is important. Fear is not an emotion. It is the constriction of emotion, the experience of the loss of all feeling, the maximum denial of whatever feeling it is we most want to prevent from coming into conscious memory. It is emotional death, being dead in the sense of the absence of any warmth.

What we fear is the state of being afraid because it is the experience of not being alive, the awareness that we are emotionally dead. To allow that to happen leads back in time to knowledge of when we died. There we know what the real enemy was, our fear of feeling what we really feel, the awareness of what happened to us that told us never ever to be alive again. With that awareness comes new life, the realization that all kept us asleep, emotionally lifeless was fear of fear. Then you can know that everything we fear has already happened.

Where's the groan emoji.

 

[Pens1566]

Gun Raffles must still comply with the ATF requirements for transferring the weapon that is raffled.

How may a licensee participate in the raffling of firearms by an unlicensed organization? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Depending on how the organization arranges for the firearms to be transferred to the raffle winner, the licensee’s participation may vary. Example 1 A licensee transfers a firearm to the organization sponsoring the raffle. The representative acting on behalf of the organization must complete the...

www.atf.gov

While true, so must the donut shop (I think). The point is, you can get them almost anywhere in certain parts. They're everywhere. I can be filling up my tank at Sheetz and while the pump is going, snag a new glock. Yes, my background check will go through that quickly.

 

[shortylickens]

I actually do agree with Moonbeam. Fear is not an emotion.
Its a survival instinct. It keeps us from harm.
Unchecked fear over a lifetime will completely degrade the human brain. That leads to a lack of emotional stability, and the predisposition to violence and angry ranting.
The propagandists know this, they use it to push their agenda. The nazis did it, and the Republicans did it.
That's because it works. These people are not stupid. They are evil and brilliant. Stop calling them stupid.

 

[EduCat]

I know you can't think straight because of your irrational emotional state but please, it really should be obvious that my opposition to your desire to see semi-auto rifles banned didn't come from being pro semi-auto rifles. It came from my opinion that trying to ban them is a fools errand. They are a normalized weapon in the hands of millions of Americans. The Supreme Court, I am pretty sure, would rule any such ban to be unconstitutional. I believe you to be delirious if you think otherwise. This is why thinking liberals who oppose gun ownership in the country know they need to strike the 2nd amendment from the constitution. When that happens you can sleep safe at night knowing that somewhere some law abiding citizen who gave up their guns was murdered somehow lacking a means of self defense. But at least you will sleep well having done nothing about mental illness and in particular your own.

Why do you say nothing is being done about mental health? It's an 80 billion dollar industry, more revenue than guns. Besides, the whole industry is basically a sham that pushes people from one drug to another. They talk buzzwords with hardly any study from a 'psychological' perspective, at least in my experience. If the drugs don't work and talking it out doesn't help it's basically a waiting game until the person snaps out of it, if they do. Plus you never really know if they are just telling lies at any point. They do have more invasive procedures like inducing seizers to make the person forget past trauma as well. (rolleyes) Why not just try hitting them on the head with a hammer? What do all the mental health people propose we do that isn't already being done? Who's going to do it?

The fact is crazy people have existed since the dawn of humanity and our modern bloodlines are a result of the most aggressive and cunning of our ancestors. There's video of real-time war on social media. Anyways you want to mix crazy and guns we just need to accept lots of gun violence. It's not even shocking.

 

[MrSquished]

There is no true statement where if you ban semi-automatic rifles let's say anything besides a 22, does that mean you have to ban semi-automatic handguns and shotguns. I do think semi-automatic pistol magazines should be limited in capacity.

But there is no rule that has to happen, if you've ban a you must ban b and c

It's just something you made up

 

[pcgeek11]

There is no true statement where if you ban semi-automatic rifles let's say anything besides a 22, does that mean you have to ban semi-automatic handguns and shotguns. I do think semi-automatic pistol magazines should be limited in capacity.

But there is no rule that has to happen, if you've ban a you must ban b and c

It's just something you made up

I didn't "make Up" anything. You are trapped inside your own bias. Imagining what you want someone to say.

Nobody said that there was a rule so if you ban A you must also ban B and C. You just made that up.

However it is common sense IMO that since you are going for semi-automatic rifle bans that you should also ban semi-automatic pistols and shotguns as they can do great damage in a very short period of time also.

Google Search

The Kel-Tec PMR-30: The Most Deadly Handgun on the Planet?

The Kel-Tec PMR-30 is a rarity among handguns on the market today: a pistol with a magazine holding more than seventeen rounds. The PMR-30 actually holds thirty rounds and does so with some clever engineering that reduces it to a lightweight package attractive to casual shooters, backcountry...

nationalinterest.org

But I guess you don't agree.
:Shrug:

 

[Indus]

Nobody said that if you ban A you must also ban B and C. You just made that up.

However it is common sense IMO that since you are going for semi-automatic rifle bans that you should also ban semi-automatic pistols and shotguns as they can do great damage in a very short period of time also.

But I guess you don't agree.
:Shrug:

Theoretically.. if we ban production of 556, 762, 277 Fury would that work to stop mass shootings with AR's or it would just create a black market?

 

[pcgeek11]

While true, so must the donut shop (I think). The point is, you can get them almost anywhere in certain parts. They're everywhere. I can be filling up my tank at Sheetz and while the pump is going, snag a new glock. Yes, my background check will go through that quickly.

As I stated in my earlier post that Background checks should be realistic... A waiting period would also be a valuable tool.

 

[Pens1566]

As I stated in my earlier post that Background checks should be realistic... A waiting period would also be a valuable tool.

Agree. They're all just a lot of common sense type regulations. That anyone is seriously opposed to them is just mind blowing.

 

[pcgeek11]

Theoretically.. if we ban production of 556, 762, 277 Fury would that work to stop mass shootings with AR's or it would just create a black market?

The AR15 comes in a shit ton of available cartridges:

List of AR platform cartridges - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

AR-15, without bolt modification
.17 Remington
.17/223
.20 Tactical
.20 Practical
.20 Vartag
.204 Ruger
.221 Fireball
.222 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.223 Remington (5.56x45mm)
.223 Remington Ackley Improved
6x45mm
6mm TCU
6x47mm
6mm Whisper
.25x45mm
6.5mm Whisper
7mm Whisper
7mm TCU
.300 Whisper (.300/221, .300 Fireball)
.338 Whisper

AR-15, with bolt modification
223 WSSM
5.45x39mm (.21 Genghis)
243 WSSM
6mm PPC
6mm WOA
6mm BR Remington
6mm Hagar
6.5mm PPC
6.5 WSSM
6.5 WOA
6.5mm Grendel
25 WSSM
6.8x43mm SPC
.30 Herrett Rimless Tactical (6.8x43mm case trimmed to 41mm and necked up to .308; the 6.8mm version of the .300 Whisper)
7.62x25
7.62x39mm
.30 RAR
300 OSSM
.357 Auto
.35 Gremlin (necked up 6.5 Grendel to 358)
.358 WSSM (various names, but all are some form of a WSSM necked up to 35 caliber, some are shortened to make them big game legal in Indiana)
.458 SOCOM
.50 Action Express
.50 Beowulf

AR-15 using a simple blowback operation
.17 HMR
.22 LR
.22 WMR
9x19mm
9x21
9x23
30 Carbine
357 Sig
40S&W
400 Cor-Bon
41 Action Express
10mm Auto
45 GAP
45ACP
45 Super
45 Win Mag

This list is in no way complete.

This list does not include complete different uppers like the FN 5.7 or the one that shoots .410 shotgun, crossbow bolts or bolt action uppers like the 50BMG

Copied from here: https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=337969

 

[Moonbeam]

I actually do agree with Moonbeam. Fear is not an emotion.
Its a survival instinct. It keeps us from harm.
Unchecked fear over a lifetime will completely degrade the human brain. That leads to a lack of emotional stability, and the predisposition to violence and angry ranting.
The propagandists know this, they use it to push their agenda. The nazis did it, and the Republicans did it.
That's because it works. These people are not stupid. They are evil and brilliant. Stop calling them stupid.

The notion that people who disagree with a liberal’s point of view are stupid I call the liberal brain defect. Liberals are driven generally speaking by only two moral concerns, justice and equality, whereas conservatives are far more morally sophisticated.

This makes it possible for conservatives to understand liberals better than liberals understand them. Conservatives also value equality and justice but not to the same degree because they see a number of other issues liberals dismiss that conservatives have to factor in. To a liberal, factoring in moral values they have no capacity to understand looks stupid. Liberals are the kings of calling others stupid out of their arrogance.

Unfortunately for conservatives, however, the more moral concerns you have the greater the number of self-representations of them you can have can go wildly astray. It also means you have a greater capacity to beat yourself over the head for not measuring up as a moral person, accompanied, of course, via projection, to see others as evil and dangerous. This also means they have a greater number of psychological vulnerabilities that the cunning can manipulate.

Liberals see that as the reason for calling them stupid. But those conservatives who understand and practice their values properly will have understandings that transcend a standard liberals capacity.

This brings me to another point regarding to how I see you. I think you were once a deeply moral person who realized the hypocrisy of moral pretenders at an age too young to have acquired from the morally vapid culture around you any wisdom that could prevent a skeptical negativism from rooting itself within you.

Your too early noting of the hypocrisy of others, in short, did two things, in my opinion. Your contempt for that hypocrisy made you far more capable of tolerating and indulging in self criticism as well as making you cynical. You hate people who will not confront their fears. But they had to do this as children or their torment would have been endless consciously rather than hidden from conscious awareness deep within. You are not alone. Your original divinity is within you. Life is good.

 

[eelw]

Yah fortune cookie Moonie is back

 

[kitkat22]

Why do you say nothing is being done about mental health? It's an 80 billion dollar industry, more revenue than guns. Besides, the whole industry is basically a sham that pushes people from one drug to another. They talk buzzwords with hardly any study from a 'psychological' perspective, at least in my experience. If the drugs don't work and talking it out doesn't help it's basically a waiting game until the person snaps out of it, if they do. Plus you never really know if they are just telling lies at any point. They do have more invasive procedures like inducing seizers to make the person forget past trauma as well. (rolleyes) Why not just try hitting them on the head with a hammer? What do all the mental health people propose we do that isn't already being done? Who's going to do it?

The fact is crazy people have existed since the dawn of humanity and our modern bloodlines are a result of the most aggressive and cunning of our ancestors. There's video of real-time war on social media. Anyways you want to mix crazy and guns we just need to accept lots of gun violence. It's not even shocking.

Um, no

Let me start with, have any better ideas?

I work with a treat pysch patients everyday. Inpatient pysch. Just last week we had one that tried to jump out the window. Also tried to attack a nurse with a large shard of glass. A week previously, I treated a patient who destroyed video equipment and ripped brackets off the walls.

I work with every SSRI, SNRi, antipyschotic, MOAI, lithium, H2 blockers, wellbutrin and others. IV/IM and oral. You know what sucks? Having a patient tell you they are going to string you up by the shoelaces because they are acutely psychotic. How about the nurse that got an orbital fracture after getting a fist to the face because the patient is high on meth. The patient then asks if they hurt the nurse enough.

I've been sexually harassed, threatened, and mocked and yet I go to work because I freaking love it!

I hate putting people in restraints. I hate having to "drug" people. I hate we are understaffed.

And yet, here I am saving your guys' butts day-in-and-day-out. I use the tools available to me and guess what? It's not a lot! At the present moment, we don't have a large amount of drugs for pysch issues. We revolutionized pysch medicine with SSRIs!

You are very welcome to come do what I do. I work 22 twelve hour days a month and see 15-20 patients a day.

Don't you dare minimize what I do especially after what we went through with covid. We went through hell.

 

[kitkat22]

Because the hammer doesn't work. You need to walk through a pysch ward. Eyes might open a bit.

 

[MrSquished]

As I stated in my earlier post that Background checks should be realistic... A waiting period would also be a valuable tool.

But you never vote for people that support these things you claim to support. So your words are useless.

 

[pcgeek11]

But you never vote for people that support these things you claim to support. So your words are useless.

We!l what have the people you vote for done to fix it when they had full control?

Not a damn thing or we wouldn't be here now.

 

[brycejones]

We!l what have the people you vote for done to fix it when they had full control?

Not a damn thing or we wouldn't be here now.

You are step 4.

 

[Fenixgoon]

We!l what have the people you vote for done to fix it when they had full control?

Not a damn thing or we wouldn't be here now.

they haven't had full control.
but very conveniently republicans did from the 2016-2018 timeframe, and they did absolutely jack shit with it.

 

[MrSquished]

When was that?

 

[ch33zw1z]

We!l what have the people you vote for done to fix it when they had full control?

Not a damn thing or we wouldn't be here now.

#whaddabout

 

[EduCat]

Um, no

Let me start with, have any better ideas?

I work with a treat pysch patients everyday. Inpatient pysch. Just last week we had one that tried to jump out the window. Also tried to attack a nurse with a large shard of glass. A week previously, I treated a patient who destroyed video equipment and ripped brackets off the walls.

I work with every SSRI, SNRi, antipyschotic, MOAI, lithium, H2 blockers, wellbutrin and others. IV/IM and oral. You know what sucks? Having a patient tell you they are going to string you up by the shoelaces because they are acutely psychotic. How about the nurse that got an orbital fracture after getting a fist to the face because the patient is high on meth. The patient then asks if they hurt the nurse enough.

I've been sexually harassed, threatened, and mocked and yet I go to work because I freaking love it!

I hate putting people in restraints. I hate having to "drug" people. I hate we are understaffed.

And yet, here I am saving your guys' butts day-in-and-day-out. I use the tools available to me and guess what? It's not a lot! At the present moment, we don't have a large amount of drugs for pysch issues. We revolutionized pysch medicine with SSRIs!

You are very welcome to come do what I do. I work 22 twelve hour days a month and see 15-20 patients a day.

Don't you dare minimize what I do especially after what we went through with covid. We went through hell.

Oh my cry me a river. I have A LOT of experience with inpatient psych (long term) and I'd try to jump out of the window too with the way facilities treat people. Hell just out of shear boredom. Where would a patient get a large shard of glass in a psych ward? It would literally mean no one was around for a long time.

And I agree, I recommend everyone get a chance to have a stay at a nearby psych ward. Walk through the halls, stay for a few hours. What's the only thing you wont find? An actual doctor.

The nurses and support staff in the trenches can be angels but please don't delude yourself into thinking seeing a patient for 15 minutes, telling them to think positive, and writing them some script is saving anyone.

Revolutionized psych medicine? I ask about new breakthrough treatments like ketamine and it's like deer in headlights. You can honestly learn so much more via the internet and watching simple youtube videos than trying to get answers from anyone in the healthcare industry. No one has the time.

I do agree that you are 'overworked' and there arent enough staff but that is literally the medical groups own fault with how they hire and how they choose to staff a facility.

Beyond that I also agree you are using the only tools you have available I guess, but it really amounts to adult daycares that babysit crazy people. And my original point is really that there actually ARE things being done for mental health, as much as we can do in certain respects.

It's easier to ban guns but then we'd see the real crazies come out of the woodwork. Do I have better ideas? Nope, that's why I said we are just going to have to accept this as our new normal. It isn't going to get better.

If guns were treated like a single pill that needs to be given to a patient in a hospital that would be a start. How many times does a pill get scanned as it moves from supplier to user? Tylenol is more regulated.

Anyways I could go on and on

 

[allisolm]

Where did the idea come from that the perp is trans? I saw nothing on the news about that. Photo looks like a chick. Yes, could be a guy, i.e. a guy with a penis but face like a woman. They said perp had seen a doctor for an emotional syndrome. Anyway, where did the trans idea come from?

Lots of different places. Police statements, pictures, Hale's own social accounts. Below are some.

"Hale was an illustrator and graphic designer who used he/him pronouns, according to a police spokesperson. Police said Hale was transgender and they initially identified him by his birth name and gender."

Nashville school shooting: What we know about 28-year-old suspect

Police have said the shooter was a 28-year-old former student of The Covenant School. Three children and three staffers were killed.

www.tennessean.com

"In online profiles, Hale had indicated they used he/him pronouns and also went by the name Aiden."

Nashville school shooter Audrey Hale identified as transgender and had detailed manifesto to attack Christian academy

Nashville police revealed that the 28-year-old who shot and killed six people at the Covenant School had a detailed manifesto.

nypost.com

 

[Fenixgoon]

Oh my cry me a river. I have A LOT of experience with inpatient psych (long term) and I'd try to jump out of the window too with the way facilities treat people. Hell just out of shear boredom. Where would a patient get a large shard of glass in a psych ward? It would literally mean no one was around for a long time.

And I agree, I recommend everyone get a chance to have a stay at a nearby psych ward. Walk through the halls, stay for a few hours. What's the only thing you wont find? An actual doctor.

The nurses and support staff in the trenches can be angels but please don't delude yourself into thinking seeing a patient for 15 minutes, telling them to think positive, and writing them some script is saving anyone.

Revolutionized psych medicine? I ask about new breakthrough treatments like ketamine and it's like deer in headlights. You can honestly learn so much more via the internet and watching simple youtube videos than trying to get answers from anyone in the healthcare industry. No one has the time.

I do agree that you are 'overworked' and there arent enough staff but that is literally the medical groups own fault with how they hire and how they choose to staff a facility.

Beyond that I also agree you are using the only tools you have available I guess, but it really amounts to adult daycares that babysit crazy people. And my original point is really that there actually ARE things being done for mental health, as much as we can do in certain respects.

It's easier to ban guns but then we'd see the real crazies come out of the woodwork. Do I have better ideas? Nope, that's why I said we are just going to have to accept this as our new normal. It isn't going to get better.

If guns were treated like a single pill that needs to be given to a patient in a hospital that would be a start. How many times does a pill get scanned as it moves from supplier to user? Tylenol is more regulated.

Anyways I could go on and on

1) how you know this poster "does their own research"

2) why do you think banning guns would cause the real crazies to come out of the woodwork? What does the existence of 400M firearms do to prevent that from happening?

3) you say medicine is more heavily regulated than guns. So why not....regulate guns more like medication? Interestingly you said you had no ideas on what could be done, but you provided an idea a few sentences later!

 

[kitkat22]

Oh my cry me a river. I have A LOT of experience with inpatient psych (long term) and I'd try to jump out of the window too with the way facilities treat people. Hell just out of shear boredom. Where would a patient get a large shard of glass in a psych ward? It would literally mean no one was around for a long time.

And I agree, I recommend everyone get a chance to have a stay at a nearby psych ward. Walk through the halls, stay for a few hours. What's the only thing you wont find? An actual doctor.

The nurses and support staff in the trenches can be angels but please don't delude yourself into thinking seeing a patient for 15 minutes, telling them to think positive, and writing them some script is saving anyone.

Revolutionized psych medicine? I ask about new breakthrough treatments like ketamine and it's like deer in headlights. You can honestly learn so much more via the internet and watching simple youtube videos than trying to get answers from anyone in the healthcare industry. No one has the time.

I do agree that you are 'overworked' and there arent enough staff but that is literally the medical groups own fault with how they hire and how they choose to staff a facility.

Beyond that I also agree you are using the only tools you have available I guess, but it really amounts to adult daycares that babysit crazy people. And my original point is really that there actually ARE things being done for mental health, as much as we can do in certain respects.

It's easier to ban guns but then we'd see the real crazies come out of the woodwork. Do I have better ideas? Nope, that's why I said we are just going to have to accept this as our new normal. It isn't going to get better.

If guns were treated like a single pill that needs to be given to a patient in a hospital that would be a start. How many times does a pill get scanned as it moves from supplier to user? Tylenol is more regulated.

Anyways I could go on and on

Clearly you could go on. No rivers cried here. BTW, that patient wasn't in a psych facility. They were in a regular hospital as a single bed certification because there are no psych beds or facilities willing to take patients. Again, understaffed and yes, the nurses are the Frontline champions.

You say we just need to hire more? You realize there is a massive shortage of nurses and doctors? We can't just train people overnight. Exacerbate it with the pandemic and people left in droves.

As for meds, I will leave you to your delusional thinking. I have seen amazing things with these meds including in my own family. I see it real time in the hospital.

Don't get me wrong, our psych situation in this country is absolutely abysmal. We have very few psychiatrists at all and it takes forever to train them. Our current systems sucks. I agree.