YART: Justification for Religious Hypocrisy

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
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Hey guys,

I am posting this here because ATOT is the most diverse group of people I can get input from, there are people here from both sexes, many religions, and different nationalities, all of whom will each have their own opinions on what I'm about to ask here.

I know this might be a stretch but this isn't a debate about whether athiesm is better than religion, or which religion is superior to another. Leave the flaming out of this. As far as I'm concerned everyone is entitled to their own opinions, if you don't respect anothers opinion it's just the basis for them to flame you.

I am agnostic, my parents are different religions, and different races. As such I've never felt any grounds to judge someone on either criteria. I've been exposed to many different things, and usually keep an open mind, until recently.

Maybe it's simply myself getting older and being exposed to more things, that I realize that things like religion are simply used as justification to criticize others.

Which brings me to my experience that I want to talk about in this post.

My best friend is Orthodox Christian, my other best buddies are Islamic and Jewish, and each religion has their section of crazies, right, thats fine, but never have I seen a holier than thou judgemental group of people than this.



For a guy that went to a Catholic school I was taught that at the heart of both Catholicism and Christianity is forgiveness and acceptance. Now I'm not really in a situation where I need to be forgiven or accepted, but someone (a very religious person), is.

I'm a fairly decent person despite what many people will attest to on ATOT, I'm hard working and honest, and I believe that there is a fundamental good in just about everyone.

But everytime I've run into a hardcore Christian, things never seem to go well.


I've been smeared by them, called a drug dealer, a rapist, a thief.

Hated on because I'm not religious, because of mixed heritage.


At times I've wondered what I've been missing in my life and looked at religion as a possible thing to look towards, I was snubbed by the people I tried to talk to.

Hypocrisy

For a community that is so judgemental, and in most cases with no foundation for their criticism I often wonder what these people use to justify their criticism of others when they are rarely, if ever, perfect human beings.

Many Christians I know, engage in pre-marital sex, drink, do drugs, by night, and in the day time they go back to good little Christians.

Now, as someone who is a bit of a whistle blower, constantly questioning my own convictions, I ask myself, how do these people sleep at night?

Everyday they judge people on the foundations of what some guy upstairs thinks, and what people thousands of years ago wrote down in what could be the best selling fiction novel of 10 BC.

Now I'm not naive nor intelligent enough to say that an entire religion is false, but I often look at the situation and walk away from talking to or interacting with people like this because it is impossible to have a logical argument with someone who believes in blind faith.

Conclusion

I guess what I'm really asking is on what religious basis can I question their right to criticize me? I obviously don't have many people to criticize, but I find that I am running into these people more and more often, and I've walked away before, but I would really like to be able to question them, and their existance and reasoning like they question mine.


Cliffs

If reading the first portion of this post was too cerebral for you, you don't belong in this thread.

There are no cliffs.

 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,986
11
81
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Cliffs

If reading the first portion of this post was too cereberal for you, you don't belong in this thread.

There are no cliffs.
Fix the spelling error in this section.
 

slsmnaz

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2005
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Damn it Howard :( let it die a slow painful death like all religion threads should!
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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Conclusion

I guess what I'm really asking is on what religious basis can I question their right to criticize me? I obviously don't have many people to criticize, but I find that I am running into these people more and more often, and I've walked away before, but I would really like to be able to question them, and their existance and reasoning like they question mine.


.

[/quote]



If these people are as you say then you are doing the right thing by walking away, don't get into a pissing match with them.


The nature of a person is what is within, no matter how much religion they claim to have or what they claim to follow it does nothing to change what they truly are whether it be good or evil.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,986
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81
Originally posted by: slsmnaz
Damn it Howard :( let it die a slow painful death like all religion threads should!
I don't think all religion threads should be ignored. I think RyanSengara's threads should be, though.
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
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Originally posted by: 1prophet

Conclusion

I guess what I'm really asking is on what religious basis can I question their right to criticize me? I obviously don't have many people to criticize, but I find that I am running into these people more and more often, and I've walked away before, but I would really like to be able to question them, and their existance and reasoning like they question mine.


.



If these people are as you say then you are doing the right thing by walking away, don't get into a pissing match with them.


The nature of a person is what is within, no matter how much religion they claim to have or what they claim to follow it does nothing to change what they truly are whether it be good or evil.[/quote]

Of course but I would like to be able to say..

Where in your religion does it say that you can criticize me when you are far from a good Christian
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
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fobot.com
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
...I realize that things like religion are simply used as justification to criticize others.

that is a generalization
so it isn't generally the case, but it may have been in some cases you witnessed

men aren't supposed to be the judges of other men, that is God's job
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
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Originally posted by: FoBoT
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
...I realize that things like religion are simply used as justification to criticize others.

that is a generalization
so it isn't generally the case, but it may have been in some cases you witnessed

men aren't supposed to be the judges of other men, that is God's job

Incorrect, when religion is used to criticize people that don't believe in religion, it is normally used as their justification.

Religious beliefs are a way of living, and it is improper to criticize someone else because their lifestyle is different to your (I use this in a general sense) own.

And that brings me to your last statement.

Religious men and women to criticize others, whats up with that?
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
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Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: 1prophet







If these people are as you say then you are doing the right thing by walking away, don't get into a pissing match with them.


The nature of a person is what is within, no matter how much religion they claim to have or what they claim to follow it does nothing to change what they truly are whether it be good or evil.

Of course but I would like to be able to say..

Where in your religion does it say that you can criticize me when you are far from a good Christian

Are you looking to get back at them for self gratification reasons or are you trying to show them the error of their ways so they may become a better christian?
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
1
76
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: 1prophet







If these people are as you say then you are doing the right thing by walking away, don't get into a pissing match with them.


The nature of a person is what is within, no matter how much religion they claim to have or what they claim to follow it does nothing to change what they truly are whether it be good or evil.

Of course but I would like to be able to say..

Where in your religion does it say that you can criticize me when you are far from a good Christian

Are you looking to get back at them for self gratification reasons or are you trying to show them the error of their ways so they may become a better christian?

I'm going to try and phrase this as well as I can because I'm awfully tired.

I think that if you are going to talk out of one side of your mouth, you should atleast walk the lifestyle you are preaching.

 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
As a Christian, I always tell people who are in your situation to ask them why they are trying to get the speck out of your eye when they have a plank in theirs. If they are actually Christian they will understand the reference and hopefully realize what you are trying to say.
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
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Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
As a Christian, I always tell people who are in your situation to ask them why they are trying to get the speck out of your eye when they have a plank in theirs. If they are actually Christian they will understand the reference and hopefully realize what you are trying to say.

In my desire to not be ignorant, might I ask what the reference is to?
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
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Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
Is answering your own quesiton is too cerebral for you?

Walking away is great and all, but I'm sick of running away because someone wants to talk one life and live another.

Maybe the thought of not being a hypocrite is too cerebral for them.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
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Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: 1prophet







If these people are as you say then you are doing the right thing by walking away, don't get into a pissing match with them.


The nature of a person is what is within, no matter how much religion they claim to have or what they claim to follow it does nothing to change what they truly are whether it be good or evil.

Of course but I would like to be able to say..

Where in your religion does it say that you can criticize me when you are far from a good Christian

Are you looking to get back at them for self gratification reasons or are you trying to show them the error of their ways so they may become a better christian?

I'm going to try and phrase this as well as I can because I'm awfully tired.

I think that if you are going to talk out of one side of your mouth, you should atleast walk the lifestyle you are preaching.

Then get some rest so you will have plenty of energy to tell them.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
As a Christian, I always tell people who are in your situation to ask them why they are trying to get the speck out of your eye when they have a plank in theirs. If they are actually Christian they will understand the reference and hopefully realize what you are trying to say.

In my desire to not be ignorant, might I ask what the reference is to?

How can you say to your brother, ?Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,? when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye. - Luke 6:42

Some translations call it a plank, but either way you get the point. It's a great passage to really convey how you feel in a situation like this. Often times people will get the reference and fail to see how it applies to them, but all you can do is try.
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
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Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: 1prophet







If these people are as you say then you are doing the right thing by walking away, don't get into a pissing match with them.


The nature of a person is what is within, no matter how much religion they claim to have or what they claim to follow it does nothing to change what they truly are whether it be good or evil.

Of course but I would like to be able to say..

Where in your religion does it say that you can criticize me when you are far from a good Christian

Are you looking to get back at them for self gratification reasons or are you trying to show them the error of their ways so they may become a better christian?

I'm going to try and phrase this as well as I can because I'm awfully tired.

I think that if you are going to talk out of one side of your mouth, you should atleast walk the lifestyle you are preaching.

Then get some rest so you will have plenty of energy to tell them.

Telling them and getting through to them are totally different things, hence this post.

It takes alot of effort for them to get the conviction to look into the mirror because that implies that they aren't being a good christian and need to re evaluate themselves.

Now this obviously doesn't apply to all Christians, but rather to a specific group that I have to regularily deal with, but they have a hard time believing that they can make mistakes.

The only way I can get through is by saying I've learnt about your religion as well.

I don't want to be an ass, and I don't want to have no argument whatsoever.
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
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Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
As a Christian, I always tell people who are in your situation to ask them why they are trying to get the speck out of your eye when they have a plank in theirs. If they are actually Christian they will understand the reference and hopefully realize what you are trying to say.

In my desire to not be ignorant, might I ask what the reference is to?

How can you say to your brother, ?Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,? when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye. - Luke 6:42

Some translations call it a plank, but either way you get the point. It's a great passage to really convey how you feel in a situation like this. Often times people will get the reference and fail to see how it applies to them, but all you can do is try.

Yes, all I can do is try.

But try is better than nothing.
 
Nov 3, 2004
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Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
Is answering your own quesiton is too cerebral for you?

Walking away is great and all, but I'm sick of running away because someone wants to talk one life and live another.

Maybe the thought of not being a hypocrite is too cerebral for them.

There are hypocrites in this world, it's a fact of life, regardless of their religious beliefs, because we are all human. Certainly, there are Christians who really do stick to their beliefs, but they're all fallible.

You're asking a question that answers itself. Just call them out on their own hypocrisy, I don't understand what more to it there is.
 

thecoolnessrune

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2005
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Its simple really, you're not talking to true Christians. You look at it in an opposite manner. It's not the religion that is hypocrisy, it's the people. Using the people who don't follow Christianity as fodder to call hypocrisy is not really that intelligent..

I agree with 1prophet.. You should get some rest.. Perhaps things will be a little clearer to you then..
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
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Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: IAteYourMother
Is answering your own quesiton is too cerebral for you?

Walking away is great and all, but I'm sick of running away because someone wants to talk one life and live another.

Maybe the thought of not being a hypocrite is too cerebral for them.

There are hypocrites in this world, it's a fact of life, regardless of their religious beliefs, because we are all human. Certainly, there are Christians who really do stick to their beliefs, but they're all fallible.

You're asking a question that answers itself. Just call them out on their own hypocrisy, I don't understand what more to it there is.

Rarely just calling someone out works.

I want to be able to say, you say you are a good Christians, and you judge me by the merits that you yourself have a good moral foundation.

Your religion prides yourself in being, honest, open, accepting, in not abusing drugs, alcohol, and kind.

You are none of the above. Before you judge me you should look into the glimmer in your minds eye.

I just want input.

 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
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Originally posted by: thecoolnessrune
Its simple really, you're not talking to true Christians. You look at it in an opposite manner. It's not the religion that is hypocrisy, it's the people. Using the people who don't follow Christianity as fodder to call hypocrisy is not really that intelligent..

I agree with 1prophet.. You should get some rest.. Perhaps things will be a little clearer to you then..

Probably, it's just.. I've been thinking about this for a few years now.

These people in particular are so busy with keeping up pretense and use their religion so serve themselves that they neglect the things that their religion is supposed to focus on.

You're right.

They aren't true Christians, and I want to be able to tell them that, but I want to give them reasons they aren't true Christians.

And in order for me to have grounds to tell them that I have to learn more about the religion.

Maybe I'll go to Church on Monday and talk to a priest.
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
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I mean I want to be able to say look in book x chapter x verses x-x

You shouldn't abuse alcohol, or drugs.

You do both. Don't judge me.