YAHCT - Can we have a collective "I Told You So?"

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
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http://www.businessinsider.com/cbo-...core-presidential-health-care-argument-2010-6

The third thing it seems — I assume we can all agree on is that over the last decade costs have doubled for health care in America — costs have doubled for government-provided health care, but everybody’s health care. And that that meant that right now everybody knows that that wrecks budgets, it wrecks state budget, it wrecks family budgets, it wrecks federal budgets. Every 35 cents of every dollar spent on health care is spent by the federal government or the state governments for Medicare and Medicaid — 35 cents on the dollar. That doesn’t count veterans and other things, just those two. And so — and what’s happened is — on the dollar, on every health care dollar.

And so we’re facing, all of us around this table, Democrat and Republicans, are facing the fact that there’s $919 billion now we’re spending on Medicare and the federal portion of Medicaid, and that if things — I don’t see any firewall is going to keep costs from doubling again, we’re going to be talking about in the year 2019 we’re going to be spending $1.7 trillion if we don’t do something to bend that curve.


Just think.... thanks to obama and the democrats... the days of $1.4 trillion deficits will not seem so bad. In 2019 we can look back and say remember the days of the small deficits and smoking economy in 2010. Likely it will be a republican who inherits this from obama and since the U.S. public has short term memory... due to a faltering economy in the future, the American voters will run back to the democrats.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
It'll be over soon - it can't be long now. We've been driving hard towards that cliff for a while now, and the current government has really put the pedal down. I've been waiting at the edge to wave as big government drives by. I tried to stop it, but ignorance was on its side, so now all I can do is watch it crash and burn.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
On Friday, Waxman declared that the sky is about to fall on the Medicare system. He went to the House floor to “urge” his colleagues to vote for a bill that includes $102 billion in new federal spending and would add $54 billion to the national debt over the next 10 years -- $25 billion of it in the few months remaining in this fiscal year.

Why did Waxman believe this new borrowing-and-spending was necessary?

“It’s absolutely critical to do this if we are going to keep doctors in Medicare and keep the promise to Medicare beneficiaries that they will have access to physicians’ services,” said Waxman. “This provision will provide a moderate increase in physicians’ fees, 2.2 percent for the rest of the year. If we don’t act, doctors’ fees will be cut by 21 percent from where they are today. This would be unconscionable.”
 

Slew Foot

Lifer
Sep 22, 2005
12,379
96
86
It was started when the first politician was elected, Obama perfected it and put it into overdrive.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Health care costs will have to get under control - other than that, one is just moving the pea around under the shell.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Yes, this only started with Obama...

So what? He along with pelosi and reid passed this shit bill... not Bush or Clinton or Carter or Ford or Reagan.

Just sit back in your little hole and let the Federal government spend this country into oblivion. Better yet, how about you pony up some more of your paycheck to help out some people with medical bills and other things they might need? Wait... what was that I hear?... oh yeh silence.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Negotiate Bulk Pricing--Problem mostly solved

This is what insurance companies do. Doctors and hospitals agree to whether they will accept what the insurance company will pay per procedure. If it is too low the physician simply decides to not accept that insurance company. Doctors have bills to pay and cannot work for free.

With medicare, the Feds are saying doctors are going to get less in reimbursements for services rendered. Their answer... limit their access to medicare patients. Physicians and hospitals cannot simply keep losing money on medicare patients. This is where we will be with obamacare.

I had carpal tunnel. My doctor prescribed wrist splints. He charged my insurance $100 for each one. Insurance gave him $50 each. My cost $0. I could have went to a drugstore across the street and bought the product off the shelf for $20 each.

The whole model is broke and obamacare will make it worse.

Food for thought...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100531/hl_nm/us_health_3
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,973
6,337
136
This is what insurance companies do. Doctors and hospitals agree to whether they will accept what the insurance company will pay per procedure. If it is too low the physician simply decides to not accept that insurance company. Doctors have bills to pay and cannot work for free.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100531/hl_nm/us_health_3
The insurance companies can force a contract with a hospital if they are the major player in the area. That puts the smaller insurer at a serious disadvantage and they have to pay the health provider more for the same service.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,829
3
0
This is what insurance companies do. Doctors and hospitals agree to whether they will accept what the insurance company will pay per procedure. If it is too low the physician simply decides to not accept that insurance company. Doctors have bills to pay and cannot work for free.

With medicare, the Feds are saying doctors are going to get less in reimbursements for services rendered. Their answer... limit their access to medicare patients. Physicians and hospitals cannot simply keep losing money on medicare patients. This is where we will be with obamacare.

I had carpal tunnel. My doctor prescribed wrist splints. He charged my insurance $100 for each one. Insurance gave him $50 each. My cost $0. I could have went to a drugstore across the street and bought the product off the shelf for $20 each.

The whole model is broke and obamacare will make it worse.

Food for thought...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100531/hl_nm/us_health_3

Your doctor overcharged your insurance company who then underpaid but still more than double what the product actually costs, in an entirely private system, and you're extrapolating that failure of the market to say that "Obamacare" will make it worse? Are you people insane? This is the exact same "opposite thinking" that convinced people the public option was a bad thing.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
So what? He along with pelosi and reid passed this shit bill... not Bush or Clinton or Carter or Ford or Reagan.

Just sit back in your little hole and let the Federal government spend this country into oblivion. Better yet, how about you pony up some more of your paycheck to help out some people with medical bills and other things they might need? Wait... what was that I hear?... oh yeh silence.

Obama passed Medicare? Wow, did not know that.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
You know I'm serious right? Republicans vehemently oppose using Medicare to negotiate healthcare costs down, not to mention the public option insurance that was killed by Lieberman & friends.

The Republicans specifically banned the prescription drug for Medicare program from negotiating lower prices.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
> Medicare and the federal portion of Medicaid,
Just think.... thanks to obama and the democrats...

Bush was a Democrat?

Medicare Part D - wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_Part_D

"By the design of the program, the federal government is not permitted to negotiate prices of drugs with the drug companies, as federal agencies do in other programs. The Department of Veterans Affairs, which is allowed to negotiate drug prices and establish a formulary, pays 58&#37; less for drugs, on average, than Medicare Part D.[31] For example, Medicare pays $785 for a year's supply of Lipitor (atorvastatin), while the VA pays $520.

Former Congressman Billy Tauzin, R-La., who steered the bill through the House, retired soon after and took a $2 million a year job as president of Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the main industry lobbying group."
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,719
6,273
126
The Republicans specifically banned the prescription drug for Medicare program from negotiating lower prices.

Which is, coincidentally, the bulk of the Increase in Costs in both the Private and Public Health Costs.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
You know I'm serious right? Republicans vehemently oppose using Medicare to negotiate healthcare costs down, not to mention the public option insurance that was killed by Lieberman & friends.
It's funny that you're so partisan that your brain can't handle it when someone else doesn't agree with a plank in the platform of his own party. :D
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,973
6,337
136
You know I'm serious right? Republicans vehemently oppose using Medicare to negotiate healthcare costs down, not to mention the public option insurance that was killed by Lieberman & friends.
Medicare is busted and inefficient, that would be my primary reason against letting the govt handle it. That aside, they set the price for care already for medicare recipients. There is no negotiation. Is it a fair one for the service? Don't know. Do know that my GP gets $22 for an office visit. That doesn't seem fair considering all the costs he has. He is one of the few that still takes medicade in my area because the pay is even lower.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
86
91
Your doctor overcharged your insurance company who then underpaid but still more than double what the product actually costs, in an entirely private system, and you're extrapolating that failure of the market to say that "Obamacare" will make it worse? Are you people insane? This is the exact same "opposite thinking" that convinced people the public option was a bad thing.

Ever heard of medicare? Sure people on it are happy.. because its back end is the Bank of Uncle Sam.

That is why the public option is a bad thing. The thing the healthcare industry has to look at is why the doctor charges $100 and why the insurance company pays $50 for something that costs $20. Is this to cover medicare patients who he loses money on? Malpractice insurance? increased costs due to government over site of his office? interstate commerce regulations causing stuff to cost more? Do patients accept this because of the cost disconnect?

Having obamacare will do nothing to fix what is wrong with our healthcare. Read what the director of the CBO has to say about it.

I say obamacare will make it worse because of a host of issues.. such as doctors being reimbursed the same way medicare reimburses them now. This will have a cascading effect that will result in worse health care over the next few decades.

You my friend are the insane one if you think the federal government is capable of pulling this off. The fact is with obamacare one of the following WILL happen in the future: massive tax increase (which is starting now) or massive reduction in healthcare services. Possibly both.

I have to ask... are you an American tax payer?