YAGT: OMG I love guns

[cmdrdredd]

What size belt did you get? Did you get the internal stiffener? I am debating between 1.25" and the 1.5". I wear suits a fair amount but I think I could get a 1.5" in the belt loops. Oh, did you order that Obenauf leather protector?

I use a 1.5" because it is pretty much the standard and I don't wear dress pants. If you often find yourself wearing dress pants then a 1.25" belt would be better suited due to most dress pants I have seen will not accommodate a 1.5" belt, but you can try. It also depends on your holster. Most holsters are made for 1.5" belts and you have to specify if you will be using 1.25" belt loops(or larger) and order it that way.

I did not get the internal stiffener as I felt it was not needed and I have carried a commander size 1911 with an all steel frame and two magazines with no issues. I use a 36" belt but this is dependent on you. In general, for IWB holsters you should wear your pants/shorts two sizes bigger than usual. For example I normally wear pants with a 34" waist and don't need a belt but I buy them 36" to leave room to fit a holster between the waistband. The way the belts are measured is from the center hole on a 5 hole belt. So with my 36" belt I have holes for 34,35,36,37,38. When I wear it with an IWB holster I normally need it to be on the last hole which is 38. It is time for me to order a new belt or lose some weight lol. Basically measure a belt you wear now and look at the hole you use most often, measure from the end of the buckle to that hole and round up to the nearest inch. That is the size you should order, that way you will get a belt that measures to that length at the center hole allowing you two inches additional room for you to use when carrying IWB. For OWB wear you just use the standard length that is comfortable since you won't need to loosen it to leave room.

I'll be honest I have never used any leather conditioner or protector on this belt. It has not cracked, split, or in any way deteriorated in the years I have used it. I've gotten it soaking wet a bunch of times both from rain and salt water. It has never been an issue as long as I let it dry thoroughly before putting stress on it. You could get a cheap jar of Kiwi Neutral Shoe Polish and use that. You can get 4 cans for $9 off amazon. I won't say my belt doesn't show signs of use though, it has darkened a bit in spots on the inside which used to be brown due to sweat and skin oils, it has some marks where the buckle clasps it down which basically look like minor indentations, and it shows some wrinkles on the inside as well. However if you looked at the outside visible part and I told you it was going on 7 years old and used daily, you wouldn't know it. I paid $130 for it when I bought it and it appears as if the belt man doesn't offer shark skin any longer, but I think $130 for going on 7 years of service is pretty darn good for daily use leather goods.

 

[phucheneh]

I've found a couple guns semi-locally. Memphis (from Nashville). Waiting to hear from sellers. One is asking 550 for a P232 in the full stainless (not bi-tone) with factory hogue grips and night sights. Three mags, in a 'law enforcement' branded factory case. Very minimal wear. I think if he'll take 500 I might drive the two hours for that. If he'll take 450, it's on like Red Dawn Donkey Kong.

It seems like 400 is a decent price for a good used P230 'vanilla.' 450, tops, for a stainless, if it's in nice shape. More if it they're like new old stock and extra fancy with wood grips or something. But otherwise...500 or more for a used one is no good.

P232's seem to start at more like 500 for a good lightly-used one. New ones command 600+ and the stainless versions are like 700+.

...I think 500 is kind of a steal for that P232, really. The closest thing is a P230 version on gunbroker for like 500, but that's plus another 50 for shipping and FFL. Cannot find the 232 online for a decent price, though it appears, looking at Slickguns, that there were ~$500 specials every once in a while on new ones. When people had them.

 

[Tiamat]

You really should check out the sigforum as well. They're a good community and you might be able to find a dealer on there. Topgunsupply used to be big when I frequented the forum, but they're out of p232/230's right now.

I feel like we need to start a support group. I've been spending way too much lately. Just ordered an Aimpoint T1 with a daniel defense mount today. Combined with the 11 boxes of federal ss109 (those 120 round mini plastic cases) being delivered yesterday, the case (1k) of wolf gold last week with smatterings of various accessories like plate carriers from SKD, raptor charging handles and ambi safeties from battle arms, some new ar15 uppers and random other parts, my CC needs to go into hibernation mode for a while to recover.

Any reason why u went with dd mount instead of larue? Just curious.

 

[phucheneh]

Price check on aisle 232:

Asking 550. Made initial contact with the dude, then offered 450, which I feel plenty safe with, and am waiting to hear back. Not sure if I will go to 500 or more for this one.

Brand new, this is 799 in a normal box, probably with two mags instead of three. I think that is WITHOUT night sights. But the secondary market seems exceptionally soft, especially given that this is a Sig. I think the wide variance in 230 prices is 1) people asking too much by reasoning 'it's just like a 232!' 2) people asking realistic prices, knowing that it's an inferior version of the gun and they're not really collectible. Inferior because they apparently don't like hollowpoints; the redesigned feedramp is the highlight of the 232, and a deciding factor for me.

So I want the 232. This guy has openly stated that this gun has ~2500 rounds down it and has been carried for the better part of a decade. That does not scare me- I know it's still gonna work very well, and if I want to carry it, I can throw some new springs in it just to be sure. But I want to make sure I pay the used 'shooter' price. If it had less rounds and was cosmetically perfect, I think 600 would be about right. What say ye, Sig fans, on this particular one?

 

[rudeguy]

Another range trip. I shot the 229 the whole time today. I'm getting there....not good yet but I'm improving. That short trigger and me just can't seem to gel.

More work to do for sure.

 

[phucheneh]

How big is that target and what distance?

You using the middle of the last segment of your trigger finger? There's obviously a definitive pull to the left in that grouping...you likely just need to fix one issue causing that, and everything else will come together.

I'ma go ahead and again recommend dry-firing with a laser attached. I think you're running into the same issue as me: you're certainly competent with a gun, but you're unable to pick out and correct issues while live firing at the range. And, for me, I end up trying to focus on implementing 'fixes' in the heat of the moment, and I end up just doing worse than if I didn't think about it and just shot the gun.

 

[Phanuel]

What distance is that at?

Looks like 50% trigger, the horizontal being to the left of the target. Caused by not pressing straight and square to the rear but pressing a little too much on the left side of the trigger with your finger (counter-intuitive I know).

And 50% recoil anticipation, the vertical stringing and grouping below the target with the random fliers high up.

How does the transition to SA confuse you? Do you keep the trigger pressed to the rear during the entire cycle of the shot and release to the reset point when you're back on target before pressing again? You shouldn't be slapping the trigger or coming off of it at all with your finger.

 

[dabuddha]

Well took the AR15 to the range today with a buddy of mine. Ran about 150 rounds through it. No FTF or anything, worked beautifully! The scope on the other hand (vortex strikefire) we had issues with. Chalk it up to noobness, we could not for the life of us figure out how to zero the thing.
I looked up the manual on my phone and the dial that's supposed to adjust the height of the laser didn't seem to be doing anything. We were able to get tight groupings but they were about 2" below what we were aiming for @ 12-15 feet.


Any tips suggestions on how to calibrate the scope?

Otherwise the thing was a blast to shoot! Glad I was able to jump on the PSA deal on 556 ammo (38.5 cents a round). My range gouges you on 556 ammo (almost 90 cents a round).

On an unrelated note, I did much better with my m&p shield 9. Awhile back, I posted that my precision was good but not my accuracy. I kept shooting low and to the left. I read someones post un-related to my issue that I should make sure and follow through on my trigger pull (which I found I wasn't doing). That made a huge difference!

 

[phucheneh]

I've only ever used an EOTech on an AR, so this may not be the case with your sight, but: I'd bet you just don't realize how fine the adjustment is. It took a LOT of clicks to zero said EOTech. 2-3 clicks was a pretty imperceptible difference.

I'd get the target as far away as you can and have the rifle supported if possible. It's hard to do on a bench...I've actually dropped the bench and fired from a sitting position because it was as stable as I could manage without going prone with sandbags, LOL. People look at you weird when you sit down in front of your lane, but meh.

 

[Tiamat]

Well took the AR15 to the range today with a buddy of mine. Ran about 150 rounds through it. No FTF or anything, worked beautifully! The scope on the other hand (vortex strikefire) we had issues with. Chalk it up to noobness, we could not for the life of us figure out how to zero the thing.
I looked up the manual on my phone and the dial that's supposed to adjust the height of the laser didn't seem to be doing anything. We were able to get tight groupings but they were about 2" below what we were aiming for @ 12-15 feet.


Any tips suggestions on how to calibrate the scope?

Otherwise the thing was a blast to shoot! Glad I was able to jump on the PSA deal on 556 ammo (38.5 cents a round). My range gouges you on 556 ammo (almost 90 cents a round).

On an unrelated note, I did much better with my m&p shield 9. Awhile back, I posted that my precision was good but not my accuracy. I kept shooting low and to the left. I read someones post un-related to my issue that I should make sure and follow through on my trigger pull (which I found I wasn't doing). That made a huge difference!

AR guns will always be 2+" low at such close distances. That is the distance between scope and barrel. That distance doesn't zero until at least 25 yards, although most people zero at 50/200 or 100 yards. Zero the scope using large 8-12" targets so you can see them at 50 yards. No scope has enough adjustment at 3-5 yards to zero at such close distances for an AR or similar bore/scope distance.

I like my eotech sight because the bottom of the reticle circle is the zero at 7 yards. The tiny dot in the center of the circle is zero at 50 yards. For normal red dots, it is simply a mental learning curve to remember to shoot 2" high (place dot 2" above intended impact point) when less than 10 yards from target.

 

[Tiamat]

Another range trip. I shot the 229 the whole time today. I'm getting there....not good yet but I'm improving. That short trigger and me just can't seem to gel.

More work to do for sure.

Most sigs ship with short trigger. I think u are having problems with the short reset trigger that is limited to certain models for fast follow up shot. Again it is easily trained. Just keep your finger all the way depressing the trigger after the shot. Take a breath. Line up sights. Slowly release the trigger and you will feel it click as it resets. Then pull the trigger when sights are OK.

 

[rudeguy]

What distance is that at?

Looks like 50% trigger, the horizontal being to the left of the target. Caused by not pressing straight and square to the rear but pressing a little too much on the left side of the trigger with your finger (counter-intuitive I know).

And 50% recoil anticipation, the vertical stringing and grouping below the target with the random fliers high up.

How does the transition to SA confuse you? Do you keep the trigger pressed to the rear during the entire cycle of the shot and release to the reset point when you're back on target before pressing again? You shouldn't be slapping the trigger or coming off of it at all with your finger.

10 yards and the targets are 10.5x12.

I have been focusing on holding the trigger back until the next shot is lined up. I do use the pad of my index finger to pull.

Ho hum

 

[rudeguy]

Most sigs ship with short trigger. I think u are having problems with the short reset trigger that is limited to certain models for fast follow up shot. Again it is easily trained. Just keep your finger all the way depressing the trigger after the shot. Take a breath. Line up sights. Slowly release the trigger and you will feel it click as it resets. Then pull the trigger when sights are OK.

Oh..it has the short reset trigger. And it's SHORT ! So much different than the Glocks. Very clean, very nice, very....great. I just suck with it.

 

[Tiamat]

Oh..it has the short reset trigger. And it's SHORT ! So much different than the Glocks. Very clean, very nice, very....great. I just suck with it.

It took me 10+ boxes of ammo to be able to control my p226 w/o SRT to grant 10 yd accurate shots to 1.5" 15 shot groups. It takes time just be patient.

 

[rudeguy]

It took me 10+ boxes of ammo to be able to control my p226 w/o SRT to grant 10 yd accurate shots to 1.5" 15 shot groups. It takes time just be patient.

Thanks man. I think I'm at about 500 rounds.

I think my big problem is I'm over thinking it. With my 19 I'm 100% confident and with the 229 I'm 100% not confident.

 

[Nebor]

Oh..it has the short reset trigger. And it's SHORT ! So much different than the Glocks. Very clean, very nice, very....great. I just suck with it.

I've got a Glock 17 with a 3lb trigger that I shoot as well or better than my P226 (one of my oldest guns, with near 10,000 rounds through it.)

 

[Kelvrick]

Any reason why u went with dd mount instead of larue? Just curious.

Weight was the biggest reason. Google gives some varying answers ranging from 1-4 oz lighter than Larue or American Defense mounts. I originally was going to go with a Fortis mount to save as much weight as possible. In the end, I found a pretty good deal on a t1/mount combo but Fortis wasn't an option. I didn't care too much about QD because I run an FSB and even if the red dot goes down, will just transition to irons or use the T1 as a giant ghost ring. It can be removed later.

Daniel defense did some torture tests on their rifles which happen to have a T1 with their mount on top and it fared pretty well. I'll take the proven (to me) reliability for the half ounce of extra weight over the Fortis. Being $40-70 cheaper as well as than the American Defense and Larue options didn't hurt either.

Check out youtube for Daniel Defense's torture tests to see how durable the T1 can be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqDP8ve-aBw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1kX0nCEh5E

It seemed to work pretty well. I think the t1 got blown off at the end of the 2nd test though.

 

[velillen]

Woot woot WA State has (more or less) legalized SBRs! its off to the governor to sign then its done! Even if he doesnt sign itll go back to the house and will pass. Only 3 people total (out of senate and congress) voted against it.

8.2" 300blk here i come.....in many more months for paperwork

 

[etrigan420]

Woot woot WA State has (more or less) legalized SBRs! its off to the governor to sign then its done! Even if he doesnt sign itll go back to the house and will pass. Only 3 people total (out of senate and congress) voted against it.

8.2" 300blk here i come.....in many more months for paperwork

Lulz, saw that the latest post was from you and *knew* what it was referencing...

Good news indeed.

The only word missing from your last sentence is "suppressed".

 

[velillen]

Lulz, saw that the latest post was from you and *knew* what it was referencing...

Good news indeed.

The only word missing from your last sentence is "suppressed".

It just feels great working for something and having it pay off....after almost getting the shaft hardcore.

Its actually a interesting thing on politics that i learned about. The Senate portion went flawlessly. Got a bit screwed since they put us at the end of the hearing behind the two major WA gun bills (i591 and i594) so we had an hour. Thankfully explaining SBR's doesnt take long. But that went flawlessly. Pass Senate without a hiccup. Got to the house and well...it got interesting. The co-sponsor told us that literally our only hurdle would be Rep. Jenkins. Who last year had every single gun bill proposed shot down. So we went into the hearing, presented our case, and right at the end she just passes it up with no vote to send it to the floor. She later made a comment basically along the lines of "Its a good bill and i would have supported it, but i wont support a pro-gun (even if it is complete registration....ie i594 that she supports.....) since last year none of my bills made it anywhere". So a bill we KNEW would pass a vote was shot down by one person with a grudge. At that point our only option was the get the Head of the House Chopp to personally pull the bill. So after we got the shaft we had a great out pour of support from people contacting him saying how much BS it was and blah blah blah. Well thankfully the lobbying seemed to have worked and it went to vote...and passed with flying colors (95-3 i believe).

I make it sound like i was heavy into it but i didnt really get involved till the hearing portions and even then i just attended and didnt speak. Plus contacting my reps. THe real man is a gentlemen named Randy. Guy spent countless hours meeting with Reps on his own time. Explaining the bill. Getting sponsors. All sorts of things. He was also the driving force behind getting suppressors. And he is just an average guy. Works at the same place i do. Really shows how you can in fact change things by annoying the crap out of people till the sponsor your bills



And dont worry worry itll be a 8.2" with suppressor. AAC 762-SDN (which is already in my possession)to be precise. 208gr bullets are fun with the suppressor out of a 16"...be even more fun at half the length

 

[Kelvrick]

Wow, congrats. I'm really jealous over here in California. You guys already have suppressors too.

 

[Tiamat]

Weight was the biggest reason. Google gives some varying answers ranging from 1-4 oz lighter than Larue or American Defense mounts. I originally was going to go with a Fortis mount to save as much weight as possible. In the end, I found a pretty good deal on a t1/mount combo but Fortis wasn't an option. I didn't care too much about QD because I run an FSB and even if the red dot goes down, will just transition to irons or use the T1 as a giant ghost ring. It can be removed later.

Daniel defense did some torture tests on their rifles which happen to have a T1 with their mount on top and it fared pretty well. I'll take the proven (to me) reliability for the half ounce of extra weight over the Fortis. Being $40-70 cheaper as well as than the American Defense and Larue options didn't hurt either.

Check out youtube for Daniel Defense's torture tests to see how durable the T1 can be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqDP8ve-aBw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1kX0nCEh5E

It seemed to work pretty well. I think the t1 got blown off at the end of the 2nd test though.

Yeah, I couldn't find the weight of the larue mounts published to compare. I like DD and have a ddm4v7lw rifle partially due to their torture tests, but mostly due to cosmetics and a deal I couldn't pass up. I know larue has an absolute cowitness mount that is cut way down to be slender for most of the mount. Not needing qd certainly saves half the cost!

I'm looking at a 2-10x scope so I would like qd, lightweight. So far the larue spr mount is high on my list.

 

[Bird222]

What do you guys recommend for earmuffs and safety glasses?

 

[velillen]

What do you guys recommend for earmuffs and safety glasses?

i use cheap disposable earplug with Howard Leight Electronic Muffs over them. For glasses i either just wear my normal glasses or if i wear my contacts i wear a pair of impact resistant glasses from work.

 

[boomhower]

What do you guys recommend for earmuffs and safety glasses?

Cheap is fine. I would strongly suggest doubling up though. Some type of in ear with a muff on top. The Surefire ones are good. If you want to spend some cash there are some really nice electronic ones out there. Here is basically what I use but the brands may be different. Link The muffs are some I bought at Walmart, same for the glasses. If it's sunny out I just wear my Oakley's that are certified the same.