YACT: Transmission/Shifting Questions

[clickynext]

My question is, is the transmission and clutch part of modern cars a purely mechanical component, or does it contain electronic components as well? Also does it do the exact same thing while the car is shut off? Can you change gears successfully with the engine shut off?


EDIT: for future reference, car is a 2002 mazda protege5.

 

[skyking]

Yes. you can shift gears in a standard tranny without the engine running. The syncros may not match up for a given gear, unless the car is in motion.
Keep in mind many clutch systems use hydraulic master/slave cylinders, so in that sense it is not purely mechanical.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: clickynext
My question is, is the transmission and clutch part of modern cars a purely mechanical component, or does it contain electronic components as well? Also does it do the exact same thing while the car is shut off? Can you change gears successfully with the engine shut off?

Depends on what kind of transmission. Most modern automatics have an electronic control. But since you mentioned the clutch I'll say you meant manual.

 

[clickynext]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: clickynext
My question is, is the transmission and clutch part of modern cars a purely mechanical component, or does it contain electronic components as well? Also does it do the exact same thing while the car is shut off? Can you change gears successfully with the engine shut off?

Depends on what kind of transmission. Most modern automatics have an electronic control. But since you mentioned the clutch I'll say you meant manual.

Yep.

Here's another very vaguely related question: I'm trying to teach myself to try manual today, and overall I'd say it's going okay. I can start the car without stalling and all the shifts from gear to gear are nice and easy. However, starting the car in 1st from
0 mph is extremely clunky and sort of feels like I'm riding a drunk horse. I still can't figure out how to get it going nice and smooth. Any tips?

I'm usually starting on an uphill (because it's completely necessary here in Vancouver, just getting out of my driveway is uphill) and right now what I'm doing is starting to release the clutch while holding the brake, and as soon as I feel a bit of vibration, lightly stepping on the gas, the releasing the clutch the rest of the way. It's during this initial acceleration that the car is bucking back and forth a little bit like it's close to stalling, but doesn't. I'm mainly doing this on uphill but I get the same problem to a slightly lesser degree on a flat road.

 

[DingDingDao]

Originally posted by: clickynext

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: clickynext
My question is, is the transmission and clutch part of modern cars a purely mechanical component, or does it contain electronic components as well? Also does it do the exact same thing while the car is shut off? Can you change gears successfully with the engine shut off?

Depends on what kind of transmission. Most modern automatics have an electronic control. But since you mentioned the clutch I'll say you meant manual.

Yep.

Here's another very vaguely related question: I'm trying to teach myself to try manual today, and overall I'd say it's going okay. I can start the car without stalling and all the shifts from gear to gear are nice and easy. However, starting the car in 1st from
0 mph is extremely clunky and sort of feels like I'm riding a drunk horse. I still can't figure out how to get it going nice and smooth. Any tips?

I'm usually starting on an uphill (because it's completely necessary here in Vancouver, just getting out of my driveway is uphill) and right now what I'm doing is starting to release the clutch while holding the brake, and as soon as I feel a bit of vibration, lightly stepping on the gas, the releasing the clutch the rest of the way. It's during this initial acceleration that the car is bucking back and forth a little bit like it's close to stalling, but doesn't. I'm mainly doing this on uphill but I get the same problem to a slightly lesser degree on a flat road.

Give it more gas, and let the clutch out slower.

 

[zerocool84]

ok well since your barely starting out and ur probably a little scared i'd say just give it a little more gas until you REALLY learn how to use the clutch. using a little more gas will keep you from stalling and jerking. of course it will rev higher and waste a LITTLE more gas it will keep you from stalling/jerking until you can learn to drive it better

 

[asm0deus]

3/4 off the clutch and ~1.5 rpms of gas.. thats how i perfected my 1st gear drunk horse syndrome

 

[gigapet]

no its quite spiritual to0

 

[eLiu]

Originally posted by: clickynext

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: clickynext
My question is, is the transmission and clutch part of modern cars a purely mechanical component, or does it contain electronic components as well? Also does it do the exact same thing while the car is shut off? Can you change gears successfully with the engine shut off?

Depends on what kind of transmission. Most modern automatics have an electronic control. But since you mentioned the clutch I'll say you meant manual.

Yep.

Here's another very vaguely related question: I'm trying to teach myself to try manual today, and overall I'd say it's going okay. I can start the car without stalling and all the shifts from gear to gear are nice and easy. However, starting the car in 1st from
0 mph is extremely clunky and sort of feels like I'm riding a drunk horse. I still can't figure out how to get it going nice and smooth. Any tips?

I'm usually starting on an uphill (because it's completely necessary here in Vancouver, just getting out of my driveway is uphill) and right now what I'm doing is starting to release the clutch while holding the brake, and as soon as I feel a bit of vibration, lightly stepping on the gas, the releasing the clutch the rest of the way. It's during this initial acceleration that the car is bucking back and forth a little bit like it's close to stalling, but doesn't. I'm mainly doing this on uphill but I get the same problem to a slightly lesser degree on a flat road.

It sounds like you're letting the clutch out too fast and/or not applying enough gas (don't stomp on it though!).

You might want to learn how to get it moving on level ground first...then try it on a hill.

But on steep ground, I usually engage the handbrake & let out the clutch until I feel/hear the engine RPMs fall (the old truck I learned on didn't have a tach). Then press down on the gas to get the revs back up and start releasing the handbrake while continuing to let the clutch out.

As for smoothness, just take it nice and slow to start. You have to build a feeling for how your clutch works...do it a little faster each time until you figure out the right speed to let out the clutch to avoid 'stuttering.'

Edit: everythign should be in a nice, smooth, synchronized set of motions. Don't suddenly release the clutch; don't suddenly hit the gas, don't suddenly release the handbrake.

 

[vix9]

I've been driving stick for quite some time and I found the best way to teach people is by using the "no gas" method. Basically, you just want to get familiar with how the clutch feels and where it hooks up. So, on a flat surface (parking lot) start the car rolling without using the gas pedal at all. Just let the clutch out until you feel it start to hook up and feel it out from there. Once you can master that, it will be very easy (and smooth) when you give the car some gas.

And no, if you do it correctly, the car won't stall. Msot cars will putter along just fine at idle in first gear.

 

[clickynext]

Is it safe to be moving with the clutch pressed halfway down? I find this the best way to back up slowly, as if I let the clutch up all the way, I either back up very quickly, or stall if I try to slow down much.

I'm getting it down a bit better now, not letting the clutch out fully until I'm moving steadily helps a lot, I find.

 

[Saint Nick]

my cavalier uses a hydraulic clutch. this is because the engine is horizontally posed i can't be cool like those d00ds with V6s or V8s and their vertically posed engines

 

[NeViKoo7]

If the clutch is only partially out and you are moving.. I believe that is called 'slipping the clutch.' It leads to excessive wear. It is good to avoid it.

 

[clickynext]

Welcome to the forum, NeViKoo.

 

[clickynext]

Got another question. When doing an uphill start, is it okay to use the clutch (released about halfway) to hold the car for the amount of time it takes to get from the brake pedal to the accelerator? Or does even that cause excessive wear?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: clickynext
My question is, is the transmission and clutch part of modern cars a purely mechanical component, or does it contain electronic components as well? Also does it do the exact same thing while the car is shut off? Can you change gears successfully with the engine shut off?

mechanical and yeah since none of the gears are in motion, you can change em as you like.

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: jndietz
my cavalier uses a hydraulic clutch. this is because the engine is horizontally posed i can't be cool like those d00ds with V6s or V8s and their vertically posed engines

it has nothing to do with engine size, it has to do with RWD or FWD.

 

[PingSpike]

There is a magic component. I believe its made from leprechaun bones.

 

[bradruth]

I learned to drive a stick on a 1969 Chevrolet C-10 pickup. It was by far the most unforgiving clutch I've ever driven. Now anything else is easy to drive.


My suggestion? Learn to drive with the worst possible vehicle you can get your hands on.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: jndietz
my cavalier uses a hydraulic clutch. this is because the engine is horizontally posed i can't be cool like those d00ds with V6s or V8s and their vertically posed engines

my car is wrong wheel drive as well, but i have a cable operated clutch. my mom's car is a v6 fwd with hydraulic clutch, so it's not just limited to I4s =P

 

[vshah]

starting up a steep hill, use the handbrake instead of the footbrake...that way you can control gas, clutch and braking at the same time. let out the hand brake as soon as revs start to dip due to the clutch being engaged

 

[clickynext]

Originally posted by: bradruth
I learned to drive a stick on a 1969 Chevrolet C-10 pickup. It was by far the most unforgiving clutch I've ever driven. Now anything else is easy to drive.


My suggestion? Learn to drive with the worst possible vehicle you can get your hands on.

lol, the first time I ever drove manual was my uncle's chinese made "Flyer" that had all of maybe 60 horsepower. But there are like 0 hills in Beijing so it seemed actually a bit easier than driving this protege5.

 

[KokomoGSTmp]

Not to be a PITA but mentioning the kinda of car helps people identify the hardware on the car and thus get a better picture of your situation.

If you said you're having trouble with your heavy aftermarket clutch, the jerkiness could be attributed to clutch chatter at low rpm, which is normal for heavy single plate clutches. It sounds like you have a hydraulically actuated clutch.

One thing people haven't mentioned yet is that you should not "ride" the clutch. Do not have the clutch pedal in and roll back and then let it out to pull the car forward and then rinse/repeat. That is extremely bad for your clutch. Do not just hold the clutch pedal in at a stop light... it's strain on the throwout bearing that it can do without. If you want to let gravity roll you backwards, put it in neutral.

 

[Paulson]

Manual's are so much better than automatics... makes me miss my manual pickup

 

[clickynext]

Originally posted by: KokomoGSTmpDo not have the clutch pedal in and roll back and then let it out to pull the car forward and then rinse/repeat. That is extremely bad for your clutch.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm assuming that by that you mean doing an uphill start? Is it very bad as well if you're doing that in reverse, on more or less flat ground (parking)? If so, then what would you say is the best way to back up very slowly, a bit at a time?

Sorry, car is Mazda Protege5.