Oh, one more thing about hydroplaning...had it happened many, many times.
1) I was driving what I considered normal for conditions and hit a low spot in the road where there was standing water (think 60-65 MPH on a just wet expressway and come up on a large pool of standing water)a
2) at this point I'm driving too fast for conditions
3) car begins to ski...driving less than 40 MPH would avoid this condition
4) You hydroplane and you are in trouble...best to hold on to the wheel and make very minor adjustments to get through it or just simply try and hold your line.
man, its spooky. very spooky to really hydroplane and without knowing how to deal with it I can see a car going completely out of control.
Which is why if the rain is really coming down I slow to 40-45 MPH and put on my flashers.
1) I was driving what I considered normal for conditions and hit a low spot in the road where there was standing water (think 60-65 MPH on a just wet expressway and come up on a large pool of standing water)a
2) at this point I'm driving too fast for conditions
3) car begins to ski...driving less than 40 MPH would avoid this condition
4) You hydroplane and you are in trouble...best to hold on to the wheel and make very minor adjustments to get through it or just simply try and hold your line.
man, its spooky. very spooky to really hydroplane and without knowing how to deal with it I can see a car going completely out of control.
Which is why if the rain is really coming down I slow to 40-45 MPH and put on my flashers.
What if you have a RWD car like me? My fronts and rears wear pretty much the same... The only difference in wear is between the inside and outside of each tire, and I don't see how rotating the wheels is supposed to help that.
Jeff7181
Lifer
- Aug 21, 2002
- 18,368
- 11
- 81
Wear on one edge of tire usually means you have an alignment problem where the camber is incorrect. Wear on both edges of front tires can also be a sign of bad rear springs causing the rear end to sag, which increases caster, which wears the edges of the tires quickly. It can also be a sign of under inflated tires... but you'd most likely notice the tire looking flat before the tire has time to significantly wear from being under inflated. Excessive positive or negative toe can also cause premature wear on the edges of tires.
As far as your question about rotating them... the rear tires on a rear wheel drive, solid axle, have neutral caster, neutral camber, and neutral toe. So they wear almost perfectly even across the width of the tread... so rotating the tires obviously helps there, putting the unevenly worn tires in the rear to wear them more evenly. If you don't, you may end up replacing a tire after 20,000 miles that has 50% of it's tread depth left in the center, and maybe only 10% on the edges... whereas if you rotated them, you might get 30-40,000 miles and end up with 25% of the tread left in the center, and 15% on the edges. With independant rear suspensions, there's some angles involved, so the tires won't wear perfect, but the angles usually are no where near as great as the front tires, so unless there's a problem with the alignment, they should wear (for all intents and purposes) perfectly even across the tread.
OK, let's see if I can bottom line this thread. Hm, hydroplaning, inflation pressure, alignment, rotations, front/rear w/the new tires, dry rot, oversteer/understeer w/a blowout. I think that'll cover it.
Hydroplaning: This doesn't really have much to do w/your tires. If your hydroplaning at all, except when you're pushin' it, you need a set of shocks. Good shocks/struts. Not the cheap crap.
Inflation pressure: Inflate 'em until they wear even. Forget max sidewall pressure and the door sticker. Go by the tire wear. Nothing else.
Alignment/rotation: A good alignment guy is hard to find. It's mostly bs. If your ft./rr. is out of alignment, slightly, then step up the rotation times. 2500 - 5000 miles will usually hit the sweet spot. Most alignments will do nothing or make it worse.
Front/rear w/the new tires: I always put my new tires on the drive wheels. Worked for me. Nowadays I buy my tires in sets of 4 or 5 anyway, so that doesn't matter.
Dry rot: if the sidewall is cracking, get new tires. If they're dryrotted the tires, not to mention the driver, shouldn't be on the road. It's the UV that kills em. The heat generated by driving preserves them. Put some ruglyde on em now and again.
Oversteer/understeer w/a blowout: This is mainly driver error. What do you do when you get a blowout @ 70mph? Ease off the gas? Slow down? Steer off the road? Nah! Man, if you get a high speed blowout, stomp on the gas - floor it to maintain speed and control, then ease it off the road.
Speaking of oversteer/understeer: Correct that w/inflation pressure. After you find the pressures that make the tires wear even, then make small pressure adjustments, ft/rr, to balance the car in the corners. Me, w/rwd, I want that ass to kick a little when I lift. Gotta be hard into it, in third gear, for that to even work, unless you're runnin' your rr tires too low.
Oh, yeah, if you're runnin' a 944, never mind. Different beast.
Hydroplaning: This doesn't really have much to do w/your tires. If your hydroplaning at all, except when you're pushin' it, you need a set of shocks. Good shocks/struts. Not the cheap crap.
Inflation pressure: Inflate 'em until they wear even. Forget max sidewall pressure and the door sticker. Go by the tire wear. Nothing else.
Alignment/rotation: A good alignment guy is hard to find. It's mostly bs. If your ft./rr. is out of alignment, slightly, then step up the rotation times. 2500 - 5000 miles will usually hit the sweet spot. Most alignments will do nothing or make it worse.
Front/rear w/the new tires: I always put my new tires on the drive wheels. Worked for me. Nowadays I buy my tires in sets of 4 or 5 anyway, so that doesn't matter.
Dry rot: if the sidewall is cracking, get new tires. If they're dryrotted the tires, not to mention the driver, shouldn't be on the road. It's the UV that kills em. The heat generated by driving preserves them. Put some ruglyde on em now and again.
Oversteer/understeer w/a blowout: This is mainly driver error. What do you do when you get a blowout @ 70mph? Ease off the gas? Slow down? Steer off the road? Nah! Man, if you get a high speed blowout, stomp on the gas - floor it to maintain speed and control, then ease it off the road.
Speaking of oversteer/understeer: Correct that w/inflation pressure. After you find the pressures that make the tires wear even, then make small pressure adjustments, ft/rr, to balance the car in the corners. Me, w/rwd, I want that ass to kick a little when I lift. Gotta be hard into it, in third gear, for that to even work, unless you're runnin' your rr tires too low.
Oh, yeah, if you're runnin' a 944, never mind. Different beast.
Originally posted by: TwoBills
OK, let's see if I can bottom line this thread. Hm, hydroplaning, inflation pressure, alignment, rotations, front/rear w/the new tires, dry rot, oversteer/understeer w/a blowout. I think that'll cover it.
Hydroplaning: This doesn't really have much to do w/your tires. If your hydroplaning at all, except when you're pushin' it, you need a set of shocks. Good shocks/struts. Not the cheap crap.
Inflation pressure: Inflate 'em until they wear even. Forget max sidewall pressure and the door sticker. Go by the tire wear. Nothing else.
Alignment/rotation: A good alignment guy is hard to find. It's mostly bs. If your ft./rr. is out of alignment, slightly, then step up the rotation times. 2500 - 5000 miles will usually hit the sweet spot. Most alignments will do nothing or make it worse.
Front/rear w/the new tires: I always put my new tires on the drive wheels. Worked for me. Nowadays I buy my tires in sets of 4 or 5 anyway, so that doesn't matter.
Dry rot: if the sidewall is cracking, get new tires. If they're dryrotted the tires, not to mention the driver, shouldn't be on the road. It's the UV that kills em. The heat generated by driving preserves them. Put some ruglyde on em now and again.
Oversteer/understeer w/a blowout: This is mainly driver error. What do you do when you get a blowout @ 70mph? Ease off the gas? Slow down? Steer off the road? Nah! Man, if you get a high speed blowout, stomp on the gas - floor it to maintain speed and control, then ease it off the road.
Speaking of oversteer/understeer: Correct that w/inflation pressure. After you find the pressures that make the tires wear even, then make small pressure adjustments, ft/rr, to balance the car in the corners. Me, w/rwd, I want that ass to kick a little when I lift. Gotta be hard into it, in third gear, for that to even work, unless you're runnin' your rr tires too low.
Oh, yeah, if you're runnin' a 944, never mind. Different beast.
I can't tell if you're joking or not. I hope so, but sadly I've seen people who says things like this but they're serious.
Jeff7181
Lifer
- Aug 21, 2002
- 18,368
- 11
- 81
Bad advice... go by the door sticker. Unless of course you're driving a race car on a closed course... then use telemetry data and lap times to figure the best tire pressure.
Also bad advice. Yes good alignment shops can be hard to find... that doesn't mean you should just say "screw it." If in doubt, you could take you car to an automotive school that has an alignment rack. You're almost sure to get a good job done there because the students follow the specifications to the letter cause they don't know how else to do it, and the teacher checks their work. I probably did 10 or 12 alignments in the 6 weeks I was in Steering and Suspension at college.
We're talking passenger cars here... not race cars. Follow the door sticker for inflation pressure, and get a proper alignment and all will be well.
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: TwoBills
OK, let's see if I can bottom line this thread. Hm, hydroplaning, inflation pressure, alignment, rotations, front/rear w/the new tires, dry rot, oversteer/understeer w/a blowout. I think that'll cover it.
Hydroplaning: This doesn't really have much to do w/your tires. If your hydroplaning at all, except when you're pushin' it, you need a set of shocks. Good shocks/struts. Not the cheap crap.
Inflation pressure: Inflate 'em until they wear even. Forget max sidewall pressure and the door sticker. Go by the tire wear. Nothing else.
Alignment/rotation: A good alignment guy is hard to find. It's mostly bs. If your ft./rr. is out of alignment, slightly, then step up the rotation times. 2500 - 5000 miles will usually hit the sweet spot. Most alignments will do nothing or make it worse.
Front/rear w/the new tires: I always put my new tires on the drive wheels. Worked for me. Nowadays I buy my tires in sets of 4 or 5 anyway, so that doesn't matter.
Dry rot: if the sidewall is cracking, get new tires. If they're dryrotted the tires, not to mention the driver, shouldn't be on the road. It's the UV that kills em. The heat generated by driving preserves them. Put some ruglyde on em now and again.
Oversteer/understeer w/a blowout: This is mainly driver error. What do you do when you get a blowout @ 70mph? Ease off the gas? Slow down? Steer off the road? Nah! Man, if you get a high speed blowout, stomp on the gas - floor it to maintain speed and control, then ease it off the road.
Speaking of oversteer/understeer: Correct that w/inflation pressure. After you find the pressures that make the tires wear even, then make small pressure adjustments, ft/rr, to balance the car in the corners. Me, w/rwd, I want that ass to kick a little when I lift. Gotta be hard into it, in third gear, for that to even work, unless you're runnin' your rr tires too low.
Oh, yeah, if you're runnin' a 944, never mind. Different beast.
I can't tell if you're joking or not. I hope so, but sadly I've seen people who says things like this but they're serious.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to be a little more specific there? I'm serious as a heart attack.
We're talking passenger cars here... not race cars. Follow the door sticker for inflation pressure, and get a proper alignment and all will be well.[/quote]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't refering to race car here, I was refering to my daily driver, which happens to be a lightly loaded truck. I haven't had an alignment on a vehicle in over 15 years. If you rotate those tires, keep them properly inflated, and keep good shocks on them, alignments aren't needed. A minor wreck or major front end work is the exception.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Course, you've gotta do the work yourself. If you rely on some of the so called "shops" out there, well, you're going to be running an inferior handling, poorly serviced vehicle. Hell, most tire shops don't know how to rotate tires.
Originally posted by: TwoBills
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: TwoBills
OK, let's see if I can bottom line this thread. Hm, hydroplaning, inflation pressure, alignment, rotations, front/rear w/the new tires, dry rot, oversteer/understeer w/a blowout. I think that'll cover it.
Hydroplaning: This doesn't really have much to do w/your tires. If your hydroplaning at all, except when you're pushin' it, you need a set of shocks. Good shocks/struts. Not the cheap crap.
Inflation pressure: Inflate 'em until they wear even. Forget max sidewall pressure and the door sticker. Go by the tire wear. Nothing else.
Alignment/rotation: A good alignment guy is hard to find. It's mostly bs. If your ft./rr. is out of alignment, slightly, then step up the rotation times. 2500 - 5000 miles will usually hit the sweet spot. Most alignments will do nothing or make it worse.
Front/rear w/the new tires: I always put my new tires on the drive wheels. Worked for me. Nowadays I buy my tires in sets of 4 or 5 anyway, so that doesn't matter.
Dry rot: if the sidewall is cracking, get new tires. If they're dryrotted the tires, not to mention the driver, shouldn't be on the road. It's the UV that kills em. The heat generated by driving preserves them. Put some ruglyde on em now and again.
Oversteer/understeer w/a blowout: This is mainly driver error. What do you do when you get a blowout @ 70mph? Ease off the gas? Slow down? Steer off the road? Nah! Man, if you get a high speed blowout, stomp on the gas - floor it to maintain speed and control, then ease it off the road.
Speaking of oversteer/understeer: Correct that w/inflation pressure. After you find the pressures that make the tires wear even, then make small pressure adjustments, ft/rr, to balance the car in the corners. Me, w/rwd, I want that ass to kick a little when I lift. Gotta be hard into it, in third gear, for that to even work, unless you're runnin' your rr tires too low.
Oh, yeah, if you're runnin' a 944, never mind. Different beast.
I can't tell if you're joking or not. I hope so, but sadly I've seen people who says things like this but they're serious.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to be a little more specific there? I'm serious as a heart attack.
anybody that blames hydroplaning on the suspension instead of tires should be immediately dismissed as "I have no idea what I'm talking about"
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: TwoBills
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: TwoBills
OK, let's see if I can bottom line this thread. Hm, hydroplaning, inflation pressure, alignment, rotations, front/rear w/the new tires, dry rot, oversteer/understeer w/a blowout. I think that'll cover it.
Hydroplaning: This doesn't really have much to do w/your tires. If your hydroplaning at all, except when you're pushin' it, you need a set of shocks. Good shocks/struts. Not the cheap crap.
Inflation pressure: Inflate 'em until they wear even. Forget max sidewall pressure and the door sticker. Go by the tire wear. Nothing else.
Alignment/rotation: A good alignment guy is hard to find. It's mostly bs. If your ft./rr. is out of alignment, slightly, then step up the rotation times. 2500 - 5000 miles will usually hit the sweet spot. Most alignments will do nothing or make it worse.
Front/rear w/the new tires: I always put my new tires on the drive wheels. Worked for me. Nowadays I buy my tires in sets of 4 or 5 anyway, so that doesn't matter.
Dry rot: if the sidewall is cracking, get new tires. If they're dryrotted the tires, not to mention the driver, shouldn't be on the road. It's the UV that kills em. The heat generated by driving preserves them. Put some ruglyde on em now and again.
Oversteer/understeer w/a blowout: This is mainly driver error. What do you do when you get a blowout @ 70mph? Ease off the gas? Slow down? Steer off the road? Nah! Man, if you get a high speed blowout, stomp on the gas - floor it to maintain speed and control, then ease it off the road.
Speaking of oversteer/understeer: Correct that w/inflation pressure. After you find the pressures that make the tires wear even, then make small pressure adjustments, ft/rr, to balance the car in the corners. Me, w/rwd, I want that ass to kick a little when I lift. Gotta be hard into it, in third gear, for that to even work, unless you're runnin' your rr tires too low.
Oh, yeah, if you're runnin' a 944, never mind. Different beast.
I can't tell if you're joking or not. I hope so, but sadly I've seen people who says things like this but they're serious.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to be a little more specific there? I'm serious as a heart attack.
anybody that blames hydroplaning on the suspension should be immediately dismissed as "I have no idea what I'm talking about"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can tell that you've never had a good set of shocks on your vehicle(s). Otherwise, you'd know what I'm talking about. You, sir, are dismissed.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
- 91
There is one big fault in that demonstration that you are going miles to avoid having to admit. There are at least 4 times the person has to screw up in that scenario for what you describe to happen. If the bad tires are on the rear, the person only needs to make the first mistake to sent the car cartwheeling rear-end-first into a tree and off the road.
Understeer provides far more opportunities for an average driver to correct. This is why even RWD cars come from the factory tuned for mild understeer in steady-state cornering.
ZV
Originally posted by: TwoBills
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: TwoBills
Originally posted by: 91TTZ
Originally posted by: TwoBills
OK, let's see if I can bottom line this thread. Hm, hydroplaning, inflation pressure, alignment, rotations, front/rear w/the new tires, dry rot, oversteer/understeer w/a blowout. I think that'll cover it.
Hydroplaning: This doesn't really have much to do w/your tires. If your hydroplaning at all, except when you're pushin' it, you need a set of shocks. Good shocks/struts. Not the cheap crap.
Inflation pressure: Inflate 'em until they wear even. Forget max sidewall pressure and the door sticker. Go by the tire wear. Nothing else.
Alignment/rotation: A good alignment guy is hard to find. It's mostly bs. If your ft./rr. is out of alignment, slightly, then step up the rotation times. 2500 - 5000 miles will usually hit the sweet spot. Most alignments will do nothing or make it worse.
Front/rear w/the new tires: I always put my new tires on the drive wheels. Worked for me. Nowadays I buy my tires in sets of 4 or 5 anyway, so that doesn't matter.
Dry rot: if the sidewall is cracking, get new tires. If they're dryrotted the tires, not to mention the driver, shouldn't be on the road. It's the UV that kills em. The heat generated by driving preserves them. Put some ruglyde on em now and again.
Oversteer/understeer w/a blowout: This is mainly driver error. What do you do when you get a blowout @ 70mph? Ease off the gas? Slow down? Steer off the road? Nah! Man, if you get a high speed blowout, stomp on the gas - floor it to maintain speed and control, then ease it off the road.
Speaking of oversteer/understeer: Correct that w/inflation pressure. After you find the pressures that make the tires wear even, then make small pressure adjustments, ft/rr, to balance the car in the corners. Me, w/rwd, I want that ass to kick a little when I lift. Gotta be hard into it, in third gear, for that to even work, unless you're runnin' your rr tires too low.
Oh, yeah, if you're runnin' a 944, never mind. Different beast.
I can't tell if you're joking or not. I hope so, but sadly I've seen people who says things like this but they're serious.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to be a little more specific there? I'm serious as a heart attack.
anybody that blames hydroplaning on the suspension should be immediately dismissed as "I have no idea what I'm talking about"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can tell that you've never had a good set of shocks on your vehicle(s). Otherwise, you'd know what I'm talking about. You, sir, are dismissed.
whatever man. Physics owns you.
Zenmervolt
Elite member
- Oct 22, 2000
- 24,514
- 44
- 91
You know, it's morons like you that drove Roger away. It just hurts my head to think that you're in earnest with this bullcrap.
ZV
Another wild oat of Old Man Dumbass is found. That old dude really got around.
Shocks are irrelevant to hydroplaning. If there is some miniscule amount that they can possibly help, it is FAR outweighed by the effect tires have on it.
Some people are just clueless.Originally posted by: TwoBills
OK, let's see if I can bottom line this thread. Hm, hydroplaning, inflation pressure, alignment, rotations, front/rear w/the new tires, dry rot, oversteer/understeer w/a blowout. I think that'll cover it.
Hydroplaning: This doesn't really have much to do w/your tires. If your hydroplaning at all, except when you're pushin' it, you need a set of shocks. Good shocks/struts. Not the cheap crap.
Inflation pressure: Inflate 'em until they wear even. Forget max sidewall pressure and the door sticker. Go by the tire wear. Nothing else.
Alignment/rotation: A good alignment guy is hard to find. It's mostly bs. If your ft./rr. is out of alignment, slightly, then step up the rotation times. 2500 - 5000 miles will usually hit the sweet spot. Most alignments will do nothing or make it worse.
Front/rear w/the new tires: I always put my new tires on the drive wheels. Worked for me. Nowadays I buy my tires in sets of 4 or 5 anyway, so that doesn't matter.
Dry rot: if the sidewall is cracking, get new tires. If they're dryrotted the tires, not to mention the driver, shouldn't be on the road. It's the UV that kills em. The heat generated by driving preserves them. Put some ruglyde on em now and again.
Oversteer/understeer w/a blowout: This is mainly driver error. What do you do when you get a blowout @ 70mph? Ease off the gas? Slow down? Steer off the road? Nah! Man, if you get a high speed blowout, stomp on the gas - floor it to maintain speed and control, then ease it off the road.
Speaking of oversteer/understeer: Correct that w/inflation pressure. After you find the pressures that make the tires wear even, then make small pressure adjustments, ft/rr, to balance the car in the corners. Me, w/rwd, I want that ass to kick a little when I lift. Gotta be hard into it, in third gear, for that to even work, unless you're runnin' your rr tires too low.
Oh, yeah, if you're runnin' a 944, never mind. Different beast.
1. Shocks/struts have little to no bearing on hydroplaning. Don't know where you get that idea from. When's the last time you saw shocks advertised to prevent/help hydroplaning? How about NEVER.
2. Cars most certainly DO need alignments from time to time. Accidents are NOT the only reason. Ever hear of potholes? How about curbs? These can all cause alignments to be off.
3. Speed up if you have a blowout to maintain speed and control? So going faster will HELP you maintain control? I guess that's why you see all those race cars slowing down immediately after a blowout. You should let off the gas, but not stomp the brakes.
4, Forget the MANUFACTURER recommended inflation pressure? Go by what's on the tires? Yeah, I'm sure the manufacturer has no clue about how much pressure their particular car needs to run. Tell me this, genius: If many different cars, of varying weights and drivetrain configurations all run the same tire, are you saying that they all should run the same pressure because that's what's on the sidewall? Yes, you are. And you are 100% wrong.
Please stop posting now, and leave the advice to the professionals.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can't tell if you're replying to me or Spidey, but I'll tell you this: What drove Roger away was some a**hole computer nerd, from this site, sending him porn email that his kid accidently read. So don't go laying that on me. I don't have the typing abilities that most of you guys seem to have, but I've been driving longer than most of you've been alive. What I stated in my op is on the money, and if you guys can't see that, well...................
Jeff7181
Lifer
- Aug 21, 2002
- 18,368
- 11
- 81
This is just a pissing match now. It's a shame too because it's a relevant subject.
TwoBills... I can't even reply to you cause you replied inside my quote which takes too much effort and time to read, separating my statements from your's. Not to mention how much effort it would take me to quote and reply to the points you may have brought up.
TwoBills... I can't even reply to you cause you replied inside my quote which takes too much effort and time to read, separating my statements from your's. Not to mention how much effort it would take me to quote and reply to the points you may have brought up.
You're trying to tell me that hydroplaning doesn't have much to do with the tires, the things which are doing the hydroplaning because the water under the tire can't escape quickly enough to allow the rubber to get a good grip on the road? You don't think that water drainage channels make any difference on a tire?
On my Z, I've had tires that were slick as ice in the rain. Try using slicks in the rain, and then try to blame it on the shocks.
--------Oh, I see, only professionals can reply to a thread on here. I didn't know that. I think I will stop posting now and leave this thread to all you "professionals". :laugh:
See you boys in my rearview.
TheLonelyPhoenix
Diamond Member
- Feb 15, 2004
- 5,594
- 1
- 0
You were giving REALLY bad advice. So bad, in fact, that I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were joking.
The things about tires not having much to do with hydroplaning is just laughably ridiculous.
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