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YACT: Stalling engine, UPDATED 5/23

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Originally posted by: archcommus
I put Sta-bil in before letting it sit unused for 8 months while I was at college, to help preserve the fuel in the tank. That is different stuff from the "dry gas" I'm talking about. I forget the formal name of it, but the guy at the full service station my mother goes to put it in her old Pontiac when it was stallilng, and it eliminated the problem completely.

Thanks very much for the assistance! Very appreciated.
Click to expand...

HEET, usually. Common in the Midwest, and areas that it snows in general. My first car practically ran on the stuff, until I found the shoddy duct-tape repair job that the previous owner had performed, and fixed it for good.

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
My guess is that the anti drain-back valve in the fuel system is leaky and that overnight the pressure in the fuel rail leaks down. Then the first time in the morning when the car is started there is low fuel pressure. Try leaving the key in the "run" position without starting the car for 30-60 seconds in the morning before you start the engine. If it starts fine then, you'll know that the problem is that it's losing pressure in the fuel system and isn't pumping back up fast enough (combination of a bad anti drain-back valve and a clogged fuel filter).

Dry gas will only help to remove water from the gas that is in the tank when you treat it. If the car has been stalling for more than one tank of gasoline, dry gas won't help.

ZV
Click to expand...

"Stalling" 3, 4 times a day seems to imply that it happens while the car is running, after having successfully started it. So unless it's having trouble maintaining fuel pressure while running as well (separate issue), it isn't the anti-drainback valve. Clogged fuel filter is possible, though it would be strange that it runs well later on in the day.

As for the second part, not necessarily, it's possible that water is getting into the system through means other than fillup. For example, a leak somewhere, like in my case. My car would stall and run poorly through several tanks, since bits of snow were getting into the intake. The dry gas would partly mask the problem (which gave me no end of headaches, and led me away from a correct diagnosis), but never cure it.
 
I'd say the hydrogen oscillator is impinging on the DC collector but those were only on GM cars and this is a FORD.

quite possibly the Turbo sensor is 2 clicks from BTDC. Try adjusting that with a set of oetiker clamp pliers up 3 notches and add 2 quarts of penzoil..

no, no.. make that quaker state.
 
Yes, I use stalling to mean it starts fine, but then idles down to 500 and then drops to 0 and shuts off within a few seconds unless I give it gas. If I leave it in park it could do this endlessly. If I drive it around the block some, though, and just try to not stop or if I do restart it if it stalls, after a a few stalls it will stop doing it. Also sometimes randomly it just won't stall at all. Like after I jumped it, I started it on its own, and it never stalled once.
 
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: jupiter57
Brake fluid!
Yes, pour a small bottle of brake fluid in your gas tank just before you park it for the night (You want it to slosh around enough to mix with the gas).
The brake fluid will react with the rubber impellers on the fuel pump,causing them to swell slightly, therefore improving your fuel pressure.
It's just a thought, it has worked for me a few times.
Besides, for $1.25, at the very least you could rule out (or confirm) a bad fuel pump.
And besides, it will help slightly to clean your pistons & valves.
Click to expand...
...

I'm going to refrain from being mean.

OP, whatever you do, please don't do something stupid like pour an extremely corrosive fluid into your gas tank. 😛
Click to expand...

Who suggested an "extremely corrosive" fluid.
BRAKE fluid, like you put in your brake reservoir, the fluid that runs through your brake lines? Your metal brake lines. Corrosive?

Of course, I've only resurrected about 5-6 weak fuel pumps this way, YMMV.
 
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
My guess is that the anti drain-back valve in the fuel system is leaky and that overnight the pressure in the fuel rail leaks down. Then the first time in the morning when the car is started there is low fuel pressure. Try leaving the key in the "run" position without starting the car for 30-60 seconds in the morning before you start the engine. If it starts fine then, you'll know that the problem is that it's losing pressure in the fuel system and isn't pumping back up fast enough (combination of a bad anti drain-back valve and a clogged fuel filter).

Dry gas will only help to remove water from the gas that is in the tank when you treat it. If the car has been stalling for more than one tank of gasoline, dry gas won't help.

ZV
Click to expand...
"Stalling" 3, 4 times a day seems to imply that it happens while the car is running, after having successfully started it. So unless it's having trouble maintaining fuel pressure while running as well (separate issue), it isn't the anti-drainback valve. Clogged fuel filter is possible, though it would be strange that it runs well later on in the day.
Click to expand...
Ah, but combine the two and what do you get?

Leakdown of pressure overnight and a fuel pump that takes a long time to build pressure again. Could take a couple minutes of starting and immediately stalling before the pressure comes back to the proper range. It's outside, but it's possible and is easy to check. Besides the fuel filter probably needs changed anyway. It's the simplest possible explanation.

ZV
 
Originally posted by: jupiter57
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: jupiter57
Brake fluid!
Yes, pour a small bottle of brake fluid in your gas tank just before you park it for the night (You want it to slosh around enough to mix with the gas).
The brake fluid will react with the rubber impellers on the fuel pump,causing them to swell slightly, therefore improving your fuel pressure.
It's just a thought, it has worked for me a few times.
Besides, for $1.25, at the very least you could rule out (or confirm) a bad fuel pump.
And besides, it will help slightly to clean your pistons & valves.
Click to expand...
...

I'm going to refrain from being mean.

OP, whatever you do, please don't do something stupid like pour an extremely corrosive fluid into your gas tank. 😛
Click to expand...

Who suggested an "extremely corrosive" fluid.
BRAKE fluid, like you put in your brake reservoir, the fluid that runs through your brake lines? Your metal brake lines. Corrosive?

Of course, I've only resurrected about 5-6 weak fuel pumps this way, YMMV.
Click to expand...

First of all, brake fluid does not make rubber swell. Mineral oil does, but that is why you are not supposed to add it to normal braking systems. Also note that there is rubber in automotive braking systems, which does not swell. While brake fluid itself is not corrosive, it is hygroscopic, and water is corrosive. Brake lines are plated with tin or zinc to prevent corrosion from contaminated brake fluid. Fuel lines do not receive this treatment, unless it is a newer E85 car, as normal gasoline is not corrosive. Do not put brake fluid in your fuel tank! It will likely damage many parts, including the fuel injectors, catalytic converter, and oxygen sensor.

On top of ZVs always good automotive advice, I have to ask, does the car "cold-idle" when it does start up (runs at higher RPMs)? I am not sure about Ford's, but some cars have both electronic and mechanical means to bypass air and raise the idle. While this is usually done to warm the engine up, it can inhibit starting in certain circumstances. Your mechanic will probably check that if that particular vehicle is known for that.
 
You might check your throttle sensor. My 93 taurus had a problem with it and it would idle really high. I'm talking high enough that I could go almost 40 mph on a flat road without touching the gas 😛 Shutting off the car after it warmed up and starting back up would "fix" the problem, until it sat and cooled off. It might be yours is acting up but sending the idle throttle the opposite way and making it stall.

Now I have a separate problem (lost 7mpg and the car is running rich, stupid thing) but that is for another thread.
 
Originally posted by: Captain Howdy
Originally posted by: jupiter57
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: jupiter57
Brake fluid!
Yes, pour a small bottle of brake fluid in your gas tank just before you park it for the night (You want it to slosh around enough to mix with the gas).
The brake fluid will react with the rubber impellers on the fuel pump,causing them to swell slightly, therefore improving your fuel pressure.
It's just a thought, it has worked for me a few times.
Besides, for $1.25, at the very least you could rule out (or confirm) a bad fuel pump.
And besides, it will help slightly to clean your pistons & valves.
Click to expand...
...

I'm going to refrain from being mean.

OP, whatever you do, please don't do something stupid like pour an extremely corrosive fluid into your gas tank. 😛
Click to expand...

Who suggested an "extremely corrosive" fluid.
BRAKE fluid, like you put in your brake reservoir, the fluid that runs through your brake lines? Your metal brake lines. Corrosive?

Of course, I've only resurrected about 5-6 weak fuel pumps this way, YMMV.
Click to expand...

First of all, brake fluid does not make rubber swell. Mineral oil does, but that is why you are not supposed to add it to normal braking systems. Also note that there is rubber in automotive braking systems, which does not swell. While brake fluid itself is not corrosive, it is hygroscopic, and water is corrosive. Brake lines are plated with tin or zinc to prevent corrosion from contaminated brake fluid. Fuel lines do not receive this treatment, unless it is a newer E85 car, as normal gasoline is not corrosive. Do not put brake fluid in your fuel tank! It will likely damage many parts, including the fuel injectors, catalytic converter, and oxygen sensor.

On top of ZVs always good automotive advice, I have to ask, does the car "cold-idle" when it does start up (runs at higher RPMs)? I am not sure about Ford's, but some cars have both electronic and mechanical means to bypass air and raise the idle. While this is usually done to warm the engine up, it can inhibit starting in certain circumstances. Your mechanic will probably check that if that particular vehicle is known for that.
Click to expand...
Yes! When first starting it sits for a few seconds at a high idle, like 1000 RPM, and then drops to 750 (good place to stay), then drops to 500 and stalls.
 
Originally posted by: SparkyJJO
You might check your throttle sensor. My 93 taurus had a problem with it and it would idle really high. I'm talking high enough that I could go almost 40 mph on a flat road without touching the gas 😛 Shutting off the car after it warmed up and starting back up would "fix" the problem, until it sat and cooled off. It might be yours is acting up but sending the idle throttle the opposite way and making it stall.

Now I have a separate problem (lost 7mpg and the car is running rich, stupid thing) but that is for another thread.
Click to expand...
Yes, mine did that too last summer. It would idle at 1000-1200 RPM all the time, making the car jolt forward when I released the brake at a stop. Then, when I got to my destination and put it in park, it would jump up to 2000 RPM or more! I would then just quickly shut off the engine. It has since stopped doing both of those things though for some reason.
 
Sounds like a problem with the idle air control (that is the part that controls the idle speed) located on the throttle body. Might be getting stuck when cold then frees up when engine warms up.
 
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Sounds like a problem with the idle air control (that is the part that controls the idle speed) located on the throttle body. Might be getting stuck when cold then frees up when engine warms up.
Click to expand...

That was my initial guess with the limited information. As they get older they get gunked up and can stick every now and again and usually when they are cold. Sometimes all you have to do is take it off and clean it out and it works fine for many more miles.
 
Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
Originally posted by: archcommus
The check engine light comes on intermittently but has come on incorrectly for years, it's not an accurate indication of anything.
Click to expand...
how do you know? what code is set?
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I'm not sure, I just recall a time many years ago when I told the mechanic it was coming on and he said absolutely nothing was wrong and the code he read from it didn't line up with anything. This was like over 4 years ago. If the sensor for that was broken, why wasn't it required to be fixed for inspection? Good question.
 
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Sounds like a problem with the idle air control (that is the part that controls the idle speed) located on the throttle body. Might be getting stuck when cold then frees up when engine warms up.
Click to expand...

+1
 
Today I got inspection, oil change, and a new fuel filter done. Other than that he said he had "no idea" what could've been causing it to stall. So it was fine coming home, but of course I haven't let it sit overnight yet. Should I try a bottle of fuel injector cleaner if it still does it? Then if it persists I'll just take it to another shop and tell them just to check that out.
 
Okay, well the problem isn't gone completely, but it seems to stall less, like only once or twice at the beginning of the day. Today I'm going to put fuel injector cleaner in and a new air filter. Sound good?

Also, today, it stalled on me at a stop sign with other cars behind me and I sort of panicked and put it into park without the brake on while still rolling forward slightly. This made it make a slight grinding/clicking sound but it went into park fine and back into drive fine after I started it again. What happened inside the transmission then to make that sound, and is this okay? Do you think this could've hurt something? I believe it's the second time I've done it.
 
If the car has a MAF change it. It's not heating up correctly and thus running the car to lean or rich for the conditions until it the filiment in the MAF gets to operating conditions.
And with a car that old, make sure the Spark plugs, plug wires and distributor cap have been replaced. This shouldn't cost you more than $30-$40 in parts and is simple enough that you can do it your self.
 
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
If the car has a MAF change it. It's not heating up correctly and thus running the car to lean or rich for the conditions until it the filiment in the MAF gets to operating conditions.
And with a car that old, make sure the Spark plugs, plug wires and distributor cap have been replaced. This shouldn't cost you more than $30-$40 in parts and is simple enough that you can do it your self.
Click to expand...

MAF = Mass Airflow Sensor? I asked a friend of mine, who had similar problems with an early 90's car he had. He had a few problems, so maybe one of these may help.

First, check for a vacuum leak in all of the seals, tubes, etc. There may be a crack or perhaps a cap is not on tight that doesn't allow the engine to create a good vacuum seal. Next, like I think JeffreyLebowski is recommending, change the mass-airflow sensor. Third, you may want to check the fuel regulator.

My friend ended up doing all of those, checking for a vacuum seal last. Since that can be the cheapest to fix, I listed that first.

I hope this helps!
 
Thanks for the suggestions. Those sound like good things to try since they're not too costly. I wonder if replacing the air filter will do anything at all. Could it actually be harmful to try a bottle of fuel injector cleaner?

Now I'm all paranoid about the park thing. I know that was stupid to do, I just panicked and the engine was already off so I felt it was time for park. Since I was only rolling forward very slightly do you think this will be okay. If it's okay now is there any future effect of having done this to worry about?
 
Don't waste your time or money with fuel injector cleaner products. The only product that works worth a damn is SeaFoam. But be prepared to smoke out your neighborhood when you do this. Put some in your gas tank, and then start the car, unhook the vacuum line that goes to your brake booster and stick the line in the bottle and let it suck up about half the bottle. The car will sputter and most likely stall on you. Once it does this let it sit for 5 minutes or so then turn it back on. If you have carbon build up anywhere along the system you will get a huge cloud of white smoke out the tailpipe.

BTW most fuel injector cleaners are just diesel fuel in a small bottle.
 
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