YACT: Solenoid or Starter

[Gamingphreek]

Ah yes, back again with another problem in the ol' car

Im not quite sure what the problem is but my dad and i have narrowed it down to the Solenoid (pardon if my spelling is wrong) or the Starter.

In the morning when I am about to go to school i turn the key and the engine will turn once and then nothing. So i turn it again, and all it does is click once, and the dashlights will flash briefly. So i continue turning it for a minute or so and it finally starts turning over slowly and begins to start.

I talked to some friends and they said that it was the Starter because the clicking and the fact that the engine turns over, would indicate that the Solenoid is working. Is this correct?

Also how much would a new starter/solenoid cost? This is a '92 pick up truck so if it is too expensive, it might be time to trade it in.

-Kevin

 

[mercanucaribe]

*solenoid

 

[Gamingphreek]

Spelling corrected

 

[Ornery]

1. Sounds like the battery to me!

 

[myusername]

Originally posted by: Ornery

1. Sounds like the battery to me!

qft

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Ornery

1. Sounds like the battery to me!

Just replaced it, theres no way.

Also if it were the battery, wouldn't the car just sit there when i turned the key. If it were the battery why would the car click and the engine turn. Also why would the lights on the dash flicker when i turn on the car?

-Kevin

 

[goodoptics]

Have you checked condition of the battery?

Edit What kind of '92 pick up truck?

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: goodoptics
Have you checked condition of the battery?

Edit What kind of '92 pick up truck?

Toyota 4x4

As for the battery, it is new. What would you like me to check? THe contacts are fine, i just cleaned them if you are referring to that.

-Kevin

 

[CrackRabbit]

Most starters have the solenoid integrated into them.
Just remove your current one and take it to a parts store to have it bench tested.
If either the motor or solenoid is bad just replace the whole unit.

 

[Ornery]

Use your VOM to check voltage on the battery while it's idle. Then, check voltage at the battery while it's running. Should be about 2 volts higher. If not, the alternator isn't charging it enough. That could be a bad connection from the alternator to the battery, or a bad alternator. Costs nothing to check that. If it checks good, swap out the starter.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Use your VOM to check voltage on the battery while it's idle. Then, check voltage at the battery while it's running. Should be about 2 volts higher. If not, the alternator isn't charging it enough. That could be a bad connection from the alternator to the battery, or a bad alternator. Costs nothing to check that. If it checks good, swap out the starter.

Ah, i forgot about the alternator.

Ill bust out the old voltmeter and check things out. Just out of curiosity:

My guage on the dash reads almost completely on the 18+ line for the battery charge. It was like this with the old battery and was like this for the new one. When tested with a voltmeter (a long time ago) it was still hovering around the proper charge (IIRC 15). Could this now be a problem or is it probably just something wrong with the guage?

As for the starter, my dad might know how to replace it, or i can get one of my friends to help me, but i have never done it before. I dont even know where it is . How in-depth is this. My dad and i might have a problem, but my friends know exactly what they are doing. Also how much would a new solenoid/starter cost (i have heard around $2-300). If not that how much does the alternator cost (I know the dealer or a mechanic has to replace that, and IIRC the alternator is fairly cheap).

-Kevin

 

[shekondar]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Ornery
Use your VOM to check voltage on the battery while it's idle. Then, check voltage at the battery while it's running. Should be about 2 volts higher. If not, the alternator isn't charging it enough. That could be a bad connection from the alternator to the battery, or a bad alternator. Costs nothing to check that. If it checks good, swap out the starter.

Ah, i forgot about the alternator.

Ill bust out the old voltmeter and check things out. Just out of curiosity:

My guage on the dash reads almost completely on the 18+ line for the battery charge. It was like this with the old battery and was like this for the new one. When tested with a voltmeter (a long time ago) it was still hovering around the proper charge (IIRC 15). Could this now be a problem or is it probably just something wrong with the guage?

It should only be around 14-15V...

 

[Ornery]

Just because that voltage from the alternator is getting to your gauge, doesn't mean it's getting to the battery.

My old, old, old Chevy had a problem such as yours. Sears did a "Power Team" check and determined the regulator was bad, which was then replaced. Problem persisted. This was after I'd already changed the battery. I had my wondrous mechanic check it out, and he determined the regulator was bad :| Changed it and problem still persisted. Turned out to be the connection from the alternator to the battery. It was corroded. Whenever somebody probed it with a meter, they (including myself) always made good contact on a part of the terminal that was clean. I'm the one who finally figured it out. So much for certifications and what-not. :roll:

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Ornery

1. Sounds like the battery to me!

Just replaced it, theres no way.

Also if it were the battery, wouldn't the car just sit there when i turned the key. If it were the battery why would the car click and the engine turn. Also why would the lights on the dash flicker when i turn on the car?

-Kevin

It takes FAR more energy to turn the starter than it does to run the headlights. The symptoms you describe are textbook for an almost-dead battery.

Check the voltage. Also, make sure that you got the right size battery. An el-chepo 400-amp battery ain't gonna crank a V8. The battery in my V8 Lincoln is 1,000 amp.

ZV

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: shekondar

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek

Originally posted by: Ornery
Use your VOM to check voltage on the battery while it's idle. Then, check voltage at the battery while it's running. Should be about 2 volts higher. If not, the alternator isn't charging it enough. That could be a bad connection from the alternator to the battery, or a bad alternator. Costs nothing to check that. If it checks good, swap out the starter.

Ah, i forgot about the alternator.

Ill bust out the old voltmeter and check things out. Just out of curiosity:

My guage on the dash reads almost completely on the 18+ line for the battery charge. It was like this with the old battery and was like this for the new one. When tested with a voltmeter (a long time ago) it was still hovering around the proper charge (IIRC 15). Could this now be a problem or is it probably just something wrong with the guage?

It should only be around 14-15V...

Something is VERY wrong if you're getting 18 volts... With the engine off and the key "on" you should get 12 volts. With the engine running, you should get 14. 15 is the highest you can go and still be reasonably OK, although 15 volts would indicate a minor malfunction somewhere.

ZV

 

[Gamingphreek]

Ok well the guage may be off, but i will definitely check.

Ornery, you bring up a very good point. Ill take a look at the wire and what not and make sure everything is nice and happily insulated and everything.

The car is only a V6 (Weak at that only a mere 153HP at the engine IIRC), so it doesn't take much to start it. As for the dead battery, well we didn't get a die-hard or anything since the car is so old, but the battery is indeed the correct model for my car. Ill check the voltages for this battery, but im almost 100% positive that everything is working correctly...the battery is that new, not even 6 months old.

Something is VERY wrong if you're getting 18 volts... With the engine off and the key "on" you should get 12 volts. With the engine running, you should get 14. 15 is the highest you can go and still be reasonably OK, although 15 volts would indicate a minor malfunction somewhere.

Like i said that is with the engine running and it is at the guage. The guage is probably malfunctioning as it did this with my last battery as well, but i will check the cord.

-Kevin

 

[Ornery]

I doubt the dash gauge is particularly accurate. I'd only trust the reading of a digital VOM, and only be looking for couple volts higher than the base voltage.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Ornery
I doubt the dash gauge is particularly accurate. I'd only trust the reading of a digital VOM, and only be looking for couple volts higher than the base voltage.

How about a nice analog volt meter

I dont think we have a digital, shouldn't make a difference though, the analog works.

I did however forget to mention something that might squelch the idea of the battery. This happens after the car has been off for a while (in particular overnight). After i get the car started that first time the next times it starts right up without any problems (all but once).

-Kevin

 

[Ornery]

1. Man, now it sounds like a short. ( Did you install an amp?)

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Ornery

1. Man, now it sounds like a short. ( Did you install an amp?)

No. Everything is stock except for the Radio and two cheap-o speakers. THe Radio is a Sony Xplode (with CD Player ) and the speakers are really weak. Shouldn't affect any circuitry in any way. However, all this was installed almost 2 years ago when we got the car, so shouldn't affect anything.

-Kevin

 

[Ornery]

How big is the spark from the battery terminal, when it's disconnected? Connect a 12V lightbulb in series between the battery terminal and the connector and see how bright it is. Shouldn't even light up, but if it does, there's something shorted or powered on.

 

[Gamingphreek]

Ill definitely try that, along with the volt meter, along with checking the cables for any breaks. Since i have school tomorrow ill try to post when i get back. But i might run out of time because then i have Choir, and then baseball conditioning. But ill definitely get something posted on this tomorrow.

Thank you SO much for all the help. If anyone else has any suggestions between now and then feel free to post, anything else i can try i certainly will.

-Kevin

 

[Dead3ye]

Is this a 4 or 6 banger? I changed the starter in a 4 cyl and it's a bitch. You better have small hands. It's located behind the right side fender well.

Although I'm with Ornery, sounds like a short or something is powered while the truck is not running.

 

[Dead3ye]

Originally posted by: Ornery
How big is the spark from the battery terminal, when it's disconnected? Connect a 12V lightbulb in series between the battery terminal and the connector and see how bright it is. Shouldn't even light up, but if it does, there's something shorted or powered on.

Doesn't anybody use a current meter anymore?

 

[Gamingphreek]

Originally posted by: Dead3ye
Is this a 4 or 6 banger? I changed the starter in a 4 cyl and it's a bitch. You better have small hands. It's located behind the right side fender well.

Although I'm with Ornery, sounds like a short or something is powered while the truck is not running.

3.0L V6. Not too large

If it is a short that would be nice as you can fix it nice and cheap 99% of the time. I would rather not shell out $300 on top of my New Computer, Christmas gifts, Cell Phone Bill, Rising Gas prices, cutting back on hours

-Kevin