YACT: Heel and toe downshifts while braking

[yhelothar]

I've been downshifting for nearly a year now, but never without heel to toe, as I never learned about it. But recently, while watching a racing video, I noticed they would tap the gas every time they downshift. I quickly learned that this is the heel and toe downshift. I also noticed that's why I don't get those nice downshifts while playing the game GTR

Anyways, is it bad for your clutch/drivetrain to downshift without heel and toe?

I've been practicing it for the past hour now with my wheel/clutch/shifter setup on my computer with GTR. Kinda getting the hang of it now. It's hard as heck.
I love the sound of the heel and toe downshifts.. VROOOOM... VROOOOM.. VROOOOOOOOOM

 

[DivideBYZero]

It's better to blip the throttle if the difference in revs is great, yes. If not, don't worry about it.

 

[DivideBYZero]

BTW, if I do it I don't use 'heel and toe'. If I'm not on a race track I don't need every last tenth of a second!

 

[DaTT]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I've been downshifting for nearly a year now,

Aren't you getting tired?

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
BTW, if I do it I don't use 'heel and toe'. If I'm not on a race track I don't need every last tenth of a second!

I'm not worried as much about performance as I'm worried about wearing out my drivetrain components by not doing it.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: DaTT

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I've been downshifting for nearly a year now,

Aren't you getting tired?

Nope. It's habitual now. I actually find it pretty enjoyful.

 

[EngenZerO]

honestly, it just depends on the mood i am in when i am driving... i am pretty sure it wont hurt the drivetrain...

 

[Lonyo]

In Formula 1 they don't, so you don't need to either.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Lonyo
In Formula 1 they don't, so you don't need to either.

Formula one cars are automatic without a clutch, so they don't need it.
But they do it in GT racing.

 

[yhelothar]

How do you do heel and toe if your car doesn't have ABS and you're on the track racing? Then wouldn't you have to pump the brakes while trying to blimp the gas? That's insane.
Well I actually saw this group B rally video where this guy did it. His foot was moving so fast, it was just unbelievable.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

dont really need heel and toe for normal driving, racing then yeah probably. but if your just driving to the shops of something why bother, thats what synchromesh gearboxs are for

 

[Desslok]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Lonyo
In Formula 1 they don't, so you don't need to either.

Formula one cars are automatic without a clutch, so they don't need it.
But they do it in GT racing.

HUH? What are you talking about?

F1 cars have clutches, they are just operated by the computer.

Other examples

BMW SMG
Audi/VW DSG

 

[SokaMoka]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: DaTT

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I've been downshifting for nearly a year now,

Aren't you getting tired?

Nope. It's habitual now. I actually find it pretty enjoyful.

You didn't get it

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: Desslok

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Lonyo
In Formula 1 they don't, so you don't need to either.

Formula one cars are automatic without a clutch, so they don't need it.
But they do it in GT racing.

HUH? What are you talking about?

F1 cars have clutches, they are just operated by the computer.

Other examples

BMW SMG
Audi/VW DSG

Yes automatics have clutches too.
But since they are operated by the computer, you don't need to heel and toe.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I've been downshifting for nearly a year now, but never without heel to toe, as I never learned about it. But recently, while watching a racing video, I noticed they would tap the gas every time they downshift. I quickly learned that this is the heel and toe downshift. I also noticed that's why I don't get those nice downshifts while playing the game GTR

Anyways, is it bad for your clutch/drivetrain to downshift without heel and toe?

I've been practicing it for the past hour now with my wheel/clutch/shifter setup on my computer with GTR. Kinda getting the hang of it now. It's hard as heck.
I love the sound of the heel and toe downshifts.. VROOOOM... VROOOOM.. VROOOOOOOOOM

What youre thinking of is rev matching, not heel and toe. Heel and toe is only when you are literally using your heel and toe cause you only have two feet, and need to use three pedals.

And it is always a good idea to rev match when you downshift. If you don't rev match, youre burning up your clutch a lot faster than you need to be, its far from smooth, and you lose some speed...its so easy, its retarded not to do.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I've been downshifting for nearly a year now, but never without heel to toe, as I never learned about it. But recently, while watching a racing video, I noticed they would tap the gas every time they downshift. I quickly learned that this is the heel and toe downshift. I also noticed that's why I don't get those nice downshifts while playing the game GTR

Anyways, is it bad for your clutch/drivetrain to downshift without heel and toe?

I've been practicing it for the past hour now with my wheel/clutch/shifter setup on my computer with GTR. Kinda getting the hang of it now. It's hard as heck.
I love the sound of the heel and toe downshifts.. VROOOOM... VROOOOM.. VROOOOOOOOOM

What youre thinking of is rev matching, not heel and toe. Heel and toe is only when you are literally using your heel and toe cause you only have two feet, and need to use three pedals.

And it is always a good idea to rev match when you downshift. If you don't rev match, youre burning up your clutch a lot faster than you need to be, its far from smooth, and you lose some speed...its so easy, its retarded not to do.

Yeah the idea of heel and toe is to rev match. But it's not too effective to brake without doing heel and toe as you'll be accelerating a little during rev matches during the downshifts.

I'm trying to get the technique smoothly on GTR first, then I'm going to try it on my car.
It's going to be hard as my current corolla doesn't have an RPM meter on it, so I'm going to have to be guessing until I get a feel for it.
I'm sure it's easy once you get the hang of it, but learning heel and toe downshift braking is wayy harder than learning how to drive stick.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I've been downshifting for nearly a year now, but never without heel to toe, as I never learned about it. But recently, while watching a racing video, I noticed they would tap the gas every time they downshift. I quickly learned that this is the heel and toe downshift. I also noticed that's why I don't get those nice downshifts while playing the game GTR

Anyways, is it bad for your clutch/drivetrain to downshift without heel and toe?

I've been practicing it for the past hour now with my wheel/clutch/shifter setup on my computer with GTR. Kinda getting the hang of it now. It's hard as heck.
I love the sound of the heel and toe downshifts.. VROOOOM... VROOOOM.. VROOOOOOOOOM

What youre thinking of is rev matching, not heel and toe. Heel and toe is only when you are literally using your heel and toe cause you only have two feet, and need to use three pedals.

And it is always a good idea to rev match when you downshift. If you don't rev match, youre burning up your clutch a lot faster than you need to be, its far from smooth, and you lose some speed...its so easy, its retarded not to do.

Yeah the idea of heel and toe is to rev match. But it's not too effective to brake without doing heel and toe as you'll be accelerating a little during rev matches during the downshifts.

I'm trying to get the technique smoothly on GTR first, then I'm going to try it on my car.
It's going to be hard as my current corolla doesn't have an RPM meter on it, so I'm going to have to be guessing until I get a feel for it.
I'm sure it's easy once you get the hang of it, but learning heel and toe downshift braking is wayy harder than learning how to drive stick.

I almost never heel and toe, because you don't really NEED to unless youre on a racetrack. If I'm gonna take a curve hard, I just brake hard enough to slow down, slam down on the clutch, rev it up, shift during the curve, and then step on it. Theoretically its a bad idea to shift during turns, but if youre not pushing it too hard, no biggie.

More important than heel and toe is just learning how to revmatch period.

 

[yhelothar]

Yeah I'll try plain rev matching first them practice doing the heel and toe on my car.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Yeah I'll try plain rev matching first them practice doing the heel and toe on my car.

And rev matching is very, very easy. Don't think of it as something you need to do to smooth out the shift. Push in clutch, rev, shift, let clutch down. If you think of the revving as storing energy up that you are going to unleash when you get off the clutch, it feels intuitive. The further you downshift, the more you store, the more you unleash.

 

[yhelothar]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Yeah I'll try plain rev matching first them practice doing the heel and toe on my car.

And rev matching is very, very easy. Don't think of it as something you need to do to smooth out the shift. Push in clutch, rev, shift, let clutch down. If you think of the revving as storing energy up that you are going to unleash when you get off the clutch, it feels intuitive. The further you downshift, the more you store, the more you unleash.

Yeah I get that concept, but to revmatch perfectly so that the car doesn't accelerate nor deccelerate the slightest bit.. I think that would take some practice.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
Yeah I'll try plain rev matching first them practice doing the heel and toe on my car.

And rev matching is very, very easy. Don't think of it as something you need to do to smooth out the shift. Push in clutch, rev, shift, let clutch down. If you think of the revving as storing energy up that you are going to unleash when you get off the clutch, it feels intuitive. The further you downshift, the more you store, the more you unleash.

Yeah I get that concept, but to revmatch perfectly so that the car doesn't accelerate nor deccelerate the slightest bit.. I think that would take some practice.

A tachometer would really, really help, but its just practice, getting use to your car.

 

[psteng19]

Originally posted by: DaTT

Originally posted by: virtualgames0
I've been downshifting for nearly a year now,

Aren't you getting tired?

Wow he must've been going reeeeally fast to be downshifting for a year and still not come to a stop yet.
18 speed transmission?

 

[tvbi]

must be a world record

 

[Desslok]

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Desslok

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Lonyo
In Formula 1 they don't, so you don't need to either.

Formula one cars are automatic without a clutch, so they don't need it.
But they do it in GT racing.

HUH? What are you talking about?

F1 cars have clutches, they are just operated by the computer.

Other examples

BMW SMG
Audi/VW DSG

Yes automatics have clutches too.
But since they are operated by the computer, you don't need to heel and toe.

No automatics have torque converters not a clutch.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Desslok

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Desslok

Originally posted by: virtualgames0

Originally posted by: Lonyo
In Formula 1 they don't, so you don't need to either.

Formula one cars are automatic without a clutch, so they don't need it.
But they do it in GT racing.

HUH? What are you talking about?

F1 cars have clutches, they are just operated by the computer.

Other examples

BMW SMG
Audi/VW DSG

Yes automatics have clutches too.
But since they are operated by the computer, you don't need to heel and toe.

No automatics have torque converters not a clutch.

Not only do DSG Automatics have a clutch, but they have two of them.