YACT: Cops shoot innocent ex-marine in AZ (huffington)

[Raduque]

I'm not interested in discussing it, I just wanted to contribute to the thread with my opinion. I did that. The people that call me names and try to insult me because of my opinion are the trolls not me. :hmm:

NOBODY wants your worthless opinion. NOBODY

Edit: Rampant Android, nice pieces. Now I want a revolver, thanks. :\

 

[Fayd]

You know, that's another point. Excessive force is definitely possible here based on the scene description. I'm not clear how they can lay down 70 rounds on one target in a hallway unless they were completely incompetent as a SWAT team.

By my count, depending on the weapon system and magazine capacity, there were no less than three separate weapons fired at this guy, all three of which would have almost completely emptied their magazines. This assumes they were using 30 round magazines.

Assuming these guys assaulted with MP5s with 30 round magazines and a rate of fire of about 700 rounds per minute, they would have fired for approximately 5 seconds each, near simultaneously, on full auto, to put down 70 total rounds. A properly trained marksman and point man should be able to fire less than 5 rounds to eliminate the threat.

cops are trained to empty an entire clip into whoever they're shooting. conservation of ammo is not a priority for them. making sure there's only 1 story to tell is.

 

[Ackmed]

I wasnt taught that. You may want to keep your sweeping generalizations to yourself. And post factual material.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

I wasnt taught that. You may want to keep your sweeping generalizations to yourself. And post factual material.

Hate to play devil's advocate, but as a police officer you're the lowest on the totem pole as far as overall and far reaching goals etc of your department... Let alone where your dept is funded and how they get their money, and on and on and on.

Basically, you're only doing as your told. (and I don't mean that in a rude way, only that you don't really know what you're talking about either - even as a leo)






Like it or not, you guys aren't anything more than a very small cog on a very large machine that's simply doing what it was designed to do in order to make money for a few 'important' people.

 

[Broheim]

Hate to play devil's advocate, but as a police officer you're the lowest on the totem pole as far as overall and far reaching goals etc of your department... Let alone where your dept is funded and how they get their money, and on and on and on.

Basically, you're only doing as your told. (and I don't mean that in a rude way, only that you don't really know what you're talking about either - even as a leo)






Like it or not, you guys aren't anything more than a very small cog on a very large machine that's simply doing what it was designed to do in order to make money for a few 'important' people.

but don't worry, the nerds in ATOT has shit figured out.

 

[RampantAndroid]

NOBODY wants your worthless opinion. NOBODY

Edit: Rampant Android, nice pieces. Now I want a revolver, thanks. :\

Just as a friendly warning...don't get 41 magnum. I'm wholly unimpressed with it, and ammo costs an arm and a leg. And maybe a kidney too.

I far prefer the feel of my .44 magnum - I just need to try the .460 magnum without a bipod now (I scoff at .357 magnum...it feels like a 22 to me 😛 )

That said, my 41 magnum will make a good carry piece - just not a range gun so much. 🙂

 

[HAL9000]

And JUST for HAL..

How my guns are stored
Less than a quarter of the ammo I have in my place. The rest is in mags, loaded in guns, or in other ammo boxes
I've got a legal collection (and this isn't all of it), and it grew by 400% this year already.

You don't like it, well - you're in the UK so it isn't your problem.

I don't understand what this post has to do with either the OP, my argument or me? Why post it? Was it jus t to show off your metal cocks?

NOBODY wants your worthless opinion. NOBODY

I'm OK with you thinking that.

 

[alkemyst]

And JUST for HAL..

How my guns are stored
Less than a quarter of the ammo I have in my place. The rest is in mags, loaded in guns, or in other ammo boxes
I've got a legal collection (and this isn't all of it), and it grew by 400% this year already.

You don't like it, well - you're in the UK so it isn't your problem.

hope with all those toys they are at least locked up and you have a security system.

 

[RampantAndroid]

hope with all those toys they are at least locked up and you have a security system.

Some are kept locked, some are kept loaded where I can find them (but others won't find them without looking.)

I've had break in attempts at my place - one guy nearly breaking down my door. You can bet I was standing behind the door with my glock, and I had racked a round. (and this is EXACTLY why I think this marine being killed is bullshit. I've been in that situation. I did the SAME thing. I took the castle clause at face value. I decided my life was worth more than someone taking down my door. More than someone breaking the law and potentially aiming to harm me.)

Go read some Locke...

 

[Raduque]

Just as a friendly warning...don't get 41 magnum. I'm wholly unimpressed with it, and ammo costs an arm and a leg. And maybe a kidney too.

I far prefer the feel of my .44 magnum - I just need to try the .460 magnum without a bipod now (I scoff at .357 magnum...it feels like a 22 to me 😛 )

That said, my 41 magnum will make a good carry piece - just not a range gun so much. 🙂

Actually, I'd want a Colt SAA-style .45LC revolver. I think I might buy a Heritage Rough Rider .22mag for cheap plinking though.

 

[alkemyst]

Actually, I'd want a Colt SAA-style .45LC revolver. I think I might buy a Heritage Rough Rider .22mag for cheap plinking though.

.22mag for plinking? You got ownz.

 

[alkemyst]

Some are kept locked, some are kept loaded where I can find them (but others won't find them without looking.)

I've had break in attempts at my place - one guy nearly breaking down my door. You can bet I was standing behind the door with my glock, and I had racked a round. (and this is EXACTLY why I think this marine being killed is bullshit. I've been in that situation. I did the SAME thing. I took the castle clause at face value. I decided my life was worth more than someone taking down my door. More than someone breaking the law and potentially aiming to harm me.)

Go read some Locke...

I am not sure what you mean by the last line.

I know people from a lot of backgrounds. Sadly many of those that own a lot of weapons have situations that promote theft of them.

I am pretty much guaranteed to buy a gun soon unless I am able to move. I know my home will be well protected with security, video and more prior to just throwing a gun in my 'crib'

The marine deal was bullshit. No knock I never agreed with, now it's trickled down to minor crimes. Fuck you don't even have to have the warrant with you any more. It's all the entitlement generation. No one looses.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I am not sure what you mean by the last line.

I know people from a lot of backgrounds. Sadly many of those that own a lot of weapons have situations that promote theft of them.

I am pretty much guaranteed to buy a gun soon unless I am able to move. I know my home will be well protected with security, video and more prior to just throwing a gun in my 'crib'

The marine deal was bullshit. No knock I never agreed with, now it's trickled down to minor crimes. Fuck you don't even have to have the warrant with you any more. It's all the entitlement generation. No one looses.

The last line is referring to John Locke. Some of his views pertain to the current discussion on defending one self.

For me, a gun is the greatest form of security. No security system you install is enough to deal with the person who DOES enter - even if the cops are called right away. I mean, cop response times all over the US are bad. They're too busy heckling people and serving no-knock warrants...often times these days calls to 911 result in no cop being sent. That cannot bode well for the systems like ADT that alert the cops.

 

[alkemyst]

The last line is referring to John Locke. Some of his views pertain to the current discussion on defending one self.

For me, a gun is the greatest form of security. No security system you install is enough to deal with the person who DOES enter - even if the cops are called right away. I mean, cop response times all over the US are bad. They're too busy heckling people and serving no-knock warrants...often times these days calls to 911 result in no cop being sent. That cannot bode well for the systems like ADT that alert the cops.

This is simply being ignorant now.

No one said a security system is all anyone needs. However, your arsenal does nothing to protect your home when you are AWAY.

Also a comprehensive security system is layered so it will give you a heads up prior to that front-door kick in at 2am when you may have had a little too much to drink and now sleeping in a chair instead of your bed where your gun is in the nightstand.

Proper locks and door/window installation. Monitored security. Then guns.

And back to what I was refering too. Too many rednecks down here have these gun collections. They are constantly buying rifles, handguns and just collecting them. Nothing wrong with that EXCEPT then one of their so-called "friends" breaks in when they know they are at work and steals them all.

They then probably end up in not so nice hands.

 

[RampantAndroid]

No one said a security system is all anyone needs. However, your arsenal does nothing to protect your home when you are AWAY.

Yes, and your point is? That's EXACTLY the point. To protect ME. I don't give a flip about protecting my TV when my life is at stake. Someone forcibly enters my home, I defend myself. If I can give them a warning and a few seconds to do a 180 and run out the door, I will. If not...then their life is forfeit and I shoot.

Proper locks and door/window installation. Monitored security. Then guns.

Someone determined enough will get through this. Someone intent on harming me will plot a way through it or force their way through it. Likewise, someone intent on theft will crack any gun safe out there. Simple security systems and alarms are not enough.

Moreover, I'm in an apartment, looking at getting a condo. I can't do much there - certainly not in an apartment. In the case where someone tried to break down my door, what option did I have? Run to my balcony, get my grapppling hook and run away? (given I have no grappling hook...) No. I had the option to grab my gun, rack a round and then think about 911. If that door had come down, I would have given a split second to yell at them, then opened fire.

 

[alkemyst]

Yes, and your point is? That's EXACTLY the point. To protect ME. I don't give a flip about protecting my TV when my life is at stake. Someone forcibly enters my home, I defend myself. If I can give them a warning and a few seconds to do a 180 and run out the door, I will. If not...then their life is forfeit and I shoot.

You missed the point...really missed it, but that also clues me in to you really have nothing of value to lose and just have a bunch of guns hanging out asking to be 'stoled'.

Someone determined enough will get through this. Someone intent on harming me will plot a way through it or force their way through it. Likewise, someone intent on theft will crack any gun safe out there. Simple security systems and alarms are not enough.

Yeah, SEAL Team 6 is looking for you dawg. Your MONITORED alarm is going off and they are going to take the time to still loot IN AN APARTMENT COMPLEX no less.

It makes absofuckinglutely no sense to build an arsenal in your place if you can't afford to secure the first gun.

Moreover, I'm in an apartment, looking at getting a condo. I can't do much there - certainly not in an apartment. In the case where someone tried to break down my door, what option did I have? Run to my balcony, get my grapppling hook and run away? (given I have no grappling hook...) No. I had the option to grab my gun, rack a round and then think about 911. If that door had come down, I would have given a split second to yell at them, then opened fire.

Well if you were serious there are really simple security devices that would make a kick in really improbable unless you live in serious ghetto territory. I had lived in apartments growing up on my own and it'd take a good 5-10 minutes of pounding the door to get in. Of course you could always take about that same time and go through a framed wall if that's all you have. I lived in concrete places.

That said...even a basic security system, push panic..no need for 911. Cops come even though the service will still call you. Keep you gun open when home, but locked away when not. Otherwise you are contributing to a problem that will eventually get our gun rights pulled or major obstacles to get. If you stuck with one gun, yeah; maybe you needed protection can can't afford otherwise. Second gun...third, etc..now that is just irresponsibility.

I am not anti-gun, I am anti-idiot-owner-gun.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Hurray, you've lowered yourself to essentially insulting me and making this pointless.

Did you not see - I'm in an apartment. All I can do security wise is stick a little buzzer on the door that screeches when the door is opened. Pretty easy to remove that and shut it off. I can't fish wires. I can't drill holes.

Apartment. A p a r t m e n t. You lease it. You don't own it. Congrats.

 

[alkemyst]

Hurray, you've lowered yourself to essentially insulting me and making this pointless.

Did you not see - I'm in an apartment. All I can do security wise is stick a little buzzer on the door that screeches when the door is opened. Pretty easy to remove that and shut it off. I can't fish wires. I can't drill holes.

Apartment. A p a r t m e n t. You lease it. You don't own it. Congrats.

I never owned a Condo, I was renting.

20 years later and WOW WIRELESS SECURITY... FUCK IT CAN CALL VIA CELLULAR! FUCK FUCK FUCK!

WOW I drilled into my door and now have to replace it MAYBE for a couple hundred bucks...but maybe not since they made shit like this years ago:

http://www.amazon.com/Door-Security-.../dp/B0018S1I2M

You are another contributor to the problem.

 

[RampantAndroid]

I never owned a Condo, I was renting.

20 years later and WOW WIRELESS SECURITY... FUCK IT CAN CALL VIA CELLULAR! FUCK FUCK FUCK!

WOW I drilled into my door and now have to replace it MAYBE for a couple hundred bucks...but maybe not since they made shit like this years ago:

http://www.amazon.com/Door-Security-.../dp/B0018S1I2M

You are another contributor to the problem.

Congrats, you win the pointless post award. THAT ONLY WORKS WHEN I'M HOME. Isn't that the arguemen you used against guns? Gasp!

 

[shortylickens]

This thread will result in mass bannings.
And I will laugh whilst stroking my Glock 17 with the thirty-three round magazines.

 

[alkemyst]

This thread will result in mass bannings.
And I will laugh whilst stroking my Glock 17 with the thirty-three round magazines.

I wouldn't put my life on the reliability of those...

 

[sdifox]

I never owned a Condo, I was renting.

20 years later and WOW WIRELESS SECURITY... FUCK IT CAN CALL VIA CELLULAR! FUCK FUCK FUCK!

WOW I drilled into my door and now have to replace it MAYBE for a couple hundred bucks...but maybe not since they made shit like this years ago:

http://www.amazon.com/Door-Security-.../dp/B0018S1I2M

You are another contributor to the problem.

My understanding is condo is owned and apartments are rented. I could have been misled.

 

[alkemyst]

Congrats, you win the pointless post award. THAT ONLY WORKS WHEN I'M HOME. Isn't that the arguemen you used against guns? Gasp!

What?

A security system not only alerts you (and calls for help for you) when you are home, but when you are out at Carls Jr waiting for the next customer protects that GI Joe collection from others.

Having a gun and not being able to afford a security system is OK with me, when hoodrats start building collections and don't do their own proper due diligence in securing those weapons; they are not only making themselves a target, but also giving ammo to the gun grabbers.

9 times out of 10 ghetto-tastic cribs (fancy word for apartment) are targeted for the money, drugs or guns someone that lived their bragged about. You can be pretty sure of it when the home is reported as ransacked but the property owner reports no items were stolen.

 

[alkemyst]

My understanding is condo is owned and apartments are rented. I could have been misled.

A condo is where the units can be purchased. An apartment is all rental.

You can rent a condo at times if they allow it.

 

[boomhower]

http://www.kvoa.com/files/Scanned%20Document0582_000.pdf

There's the search warrant. I haven't had time to take a good look at it yet.