XFX Horror Story

[ExcaliburMM]

I personally would take the stock 4890, but comparable is ambiguous, therefore the OP can say he believes he is entitled to an XT or better.

 

[ScorcherDarkly]

I personally would take the stock 4890, but comparable is ambiguous, therefore the OP can say he believes he is entitled to an XT or better.

Because its ambiguous, XFX can claim it means whatever they want it to mean, and you'd have to sue them to get them to change their mind. It's up to XFX if they want to interpret that loosely, and have a bad reputation, or if they are fair about it and have a good reputation.

If they decided "comparable" in this case was a 4870 or lower, then that would be worthy of pitching a fit over. Instead they said "comparable" was a stock version of the same card he RMA'ed. I don't see any way one could make an argument where that would not be true. The two are definitely comparable, with the only difference being a slight boost in clock speed.

 

[ScorcherDarkly]

Double post, bad browser.

 

[sisq0kidd]

People in the video section sure are passionate about video cards...

Should XFX replace the OP's card with a better card free of charge/at a discount (since they don't have an equal one in stock)?

I would say yes, at a discounted price though. The reasoning is, they themselves don't know when his card will come back in stock. This could be an indefinite wait for a replacement. If they knew the timeline for the replacement card then that's a different story, but the fact that the OP could wait forever for a product that aggressively depreciates is not acceptable, IMO. Time is an asset when it comes to the computer world and he's already waited over a month.

Now, I know some of you think the OP is petty for not taking the stock 4980, and to a degree, I agree. But think about it. He most likely paid more for that novelty, but yet is shafted when it comes time to reap the (ill)benefits of it come replacement time.

What I think XFX should do is offer the upgrade to a 5850 at a discounted price, not at the MSRP price difference. In all honesty, XFX really isn't doing anything wrong by offerring the 5850 at $130 more, but it comes off as an insult that a warranty means nothing more than step-up program, a la EVGA.

If I were in the same situation, I would take the stock 4890, but on the condition that a free/discounted upgrade is made if an acceptable replacement card cannot be had in an acceptable amount of time.

 

[RussianSensation]

Summary: The main confusion here is in regard to the legal obligation of XFX in accordance to its stated warranty policy. XFX's warranty is a "Limited warranty", which is different from a legal definition of a "Full warranty." A quick review of XFX's "Double Lifetime Warranty" reveals the following information:

What's Covered:

Once the product is registered, XFX warrants that should the graphics card purchased require service or repairs as the result of defects in materials or workmanship, XFX will make those repairs for free. If the card cannot be repaired, it will be replaced. However, the warranty does not include refunds. XFX does not make any other warranty, express or implied.

XFX’s liability under the Double Lifetime Protection is limited to the repair, or, at XFX’s discretion, the replacement of the portion(s) of the Product that are found to be defective in material or workmanship.


================================

The above summarized XFX warranty is NOT to be confused with a legal definition of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, which designates 5 key criteria for meeting the minimum federal standards for a "Full Warranty":

• A "full warranty" is one that meets the federal minimum standards for a warranty. Such warranties must be "conspicuously designated" as full warranties. If each of the following five statements is true about your warranty's terms and conditions, it is a "full" warranty:
  • You do not limit the duration of implied warranties.
  • You provide warranty service to anyone who owns the product during the warranty period; that is, you do not limit coverage to first purchasers.
  • You provide warranty service free of charge, including such costs as returning the product or removing and reinstalling the product when necessary.
  • You provide, at the consumer's choice, either a replacement or a full refund if, after a reasonable number of tries, you are unable to repair the product.
  • You do not require consumers to perform any duty as a precondition for receiving service, except notifying you that service is needed, unless you can demonstrate that the duty is reasonable.

Full Warranty Requirements

Under a full warranty, in the case of a defect, malfunction, or failure to conform with the written warranty, the warrantor:

• must, as a minimum, remedy the consumer product within a reasonable time and without charge; (<This is not a requirement of a "limited warranty". Therefore OP's waiting period is simply a function of the limitation of the Company's legal obligations under their warranty policy).
• may not impose any limitation on the duration of any implied warranty on the product;
• may not exclude or limit consequential damages for a breach of any written or implied warranty on the product, unless the exclusion or limitation conspicuously appears on the face of the warranty; and
• if the product, or a component part, contains a defect or malfunction, must permit the consumer to elect either a refund or replacement without charge, after a reasonable number of repair attempts. (<This is not a requirement of a "limited warranty". Therefore OP's request for a full refund is again not legally enforceable under XFX's warranty policy).

======================================

By definition of the above, XFX's Double Lifetime Warranty is a "limited warranty":

• A "limited warranty" is one that does not meet the federal minimums.

Therefore, the source of confusion is in the misunderstanding of the OP of the legal definitions of "limited lifetime warranty" vs. a "full warranty".

I do not work for XFX. However, I concede that XFX may have been misleading in omitting the term "Limited" in regard to their "Double Lifetime Warranty". As a point of reference, EVGA does not make the same omission, clearly stating their warranty is Limited ("EVGA Limited Lifetime Warranty Program")
http://www.evga.com/support/warranty/

My 2 cents.

 

[smackababy]

eVGA's step up program is only available for 90 days after purchase. I don't know when OP purchased his card, but being offered full retail price for it is outstanding if it is older. Now, does he deserve a substantial upgrade for his problem? No. Could he obtain one if he talked to a manager about it? Probably.

Coming in and whining about a problem concerning a slight downgrade until the card you had becomes available isn't something I would consider a good idea.

 

[BD231]

This just looks like bad timing on all levels OP, that part is no longer in production and XFX tends to cash in on the latest and greatest GPU's. Unfortuneately for you, ati is on to their next generation of cards so production has halted on everything else.

They probably never will get an OC'd version in so I'd take the 4890 while you still can.

 

[Shilohen]

What I think XFX should do is offer the upgrade to a 5850 at a discounted price, not at the MSRP price difference. In all honesty, XFX really isn't doing anything wrong by offerring the 5850 at $130 more, but it comes off as an insult that a warranty means nothing more than step-up program, a la EVGA.

^ That. Offering the upgrade at the MSRP difference means they're making profit from it, which is kind of odd IMHO, they should do it at manufacturer cost.

Anyway, XFX is quite far from http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2043556 in this case, but I wouldn't say they did an horrible job either. I think they should have warned the OP faster about the stock shortage however.

 

[ymetushe]

See, I was willing to take a stock 4890 for a while, even though that would mean a whole lot of extra trouble with my cooling solution, IF they could guarantee me a proper version of the card within a reasonable amount of time. They told me they have no idea of when a 4890XT would become available, which to me means never.

Why should I settle for a stock 4890? I paid an extra $20 for an overclocked version ($269.99) back in May. How would you like to be ripped off?

While $130 for a 5850 sounds appealing, it is like a forced upgrade. I am satisfied with the performance of a 4890 at the moment and don't feel the need to upgrade. If they guarantee to replace or repair a card, why should I be forced into a paid upgrade?

 

[happy medium]

I go to the auto lot and buy a 8 cylinder Mustang.
The engine blows.
Do I accept a 6 cylinder replacement (untill they find me a 8 cylinder which could be forever?) because they are out of stock of the 8 cylinder motors?
They should give me a motor thats has as much or more horsepower. ( mabe a cobra motor).

Lesson learned by XFX. Don't give out a warrenty you cant make good on.
OR make good on it.

Look at this complaint this way. Where theres one there is many.
Mabe they do this to alot of customers?

They should give the guy a 5850 for making him wait and stringing him along and for the inconvinience.

Shame on them.

 

[tweakboy]

I had a old XFX 5950 ultra . That card powned quake 3 lol.

 

[MagickMan]

Look, you can believe what you want. In this day and age with viral marketing and untrustworthy people I take his post with a grain of salt.

I would not refund his money based on him messing with the cooling setup alone. You people are batshit crazy.

I didn't say they should give back his money, I'm saying he hasn't been assertive. Pay attention.

They'll make good with a 5850 at a reasonable price, they just need some pushing.

 

[CraigRT]

XFX going down the drain eh

I was under the impression they were not good to begin with..

 

[v8envy]

I go to the auto lot and buy a 8 cylinder Mustang.
The engine blows.
Do I accept a 6 cylinder replacement (untill they find me a 8 cylinder which could be forever?) because they are out of stock of the 8 cylinder motors?
They should give me a motor thats has as much or more horsepower. ( mabe a cobra motor).

Lesson learned by XFX. Don't give out a warrenty you cant make good on.
OR make good on it.

Look at this complaint this way. Where theres one there is many.
Mabe they do this to alot of customers?

They should give the guy a 5850 for making him wait and stringing him along and for the inconvinience.

Shame on them.

Ironic you should bring up that exact auto analogy.

I *did* buy a v8 mustang (see sig) and it was ingesting coolant through the headgasket after a month or two. Basically, the cylinder heads were warped. Covered under the warranty, natch. However, there's nothing in the warranty about providing a replacement while the repairs are in progress. And nothing about the repairs having to be timely.

Short story long, I got to drive an Aspire clown car for quite a few weeks while paying insurance on a brand new v8 'stang. It was mortifying. And the original dealership wouldn't even provide a loaner in the first place, I had to look around for one that wanted the warranty business enough to offer one. Needless to say I will not be recommending the original dealership.

TL;DR -- XFX is within their legal and moral rights to repair his card without providing a loaner or any sort of timeline. They'd have a happy customer by offering the $100 upgrade, but in this case the people OP deals with are either not empowered to make any decisions or feel that $30 saved is worth an unhappy customer. Either way, hardly horrifying. A little bit sad, maybe. But by no means worthy of fear.

 

[mm2587]

sorry op but this is far from a horror story. Sounds like XFX is working with you as much as they can to get your problem fixed and your just throwing a hissy fit.

grow up. they don't have a replacement right now they have offered viable alternatives. I wish half of tech companies were as good.

I just had to rma some bad ddr with crucial. The sticks had a lifetime warranty. They told me they were going to replace my $200 ballistix memory with $80 value ram or I could take a fair market value of $30 in instore credit. Too top it off the customer service rep told me I was lucky to be getting anything at all. Now thats bad service. (and yes a tried talking to people at crucial and they wouldn't budge even after I filed a bbb complaint)

 

[mejobloggs]

XFX have been a little worrying lately: http://www.overclock.net/ati/634248-xfx-4890-bad-batch-discussion.html

I personally bought an XFX 4890 with special XFX redesigned cooler in the hopes that it would be
a) cooler
b) quieter

Turned out to be louder and hotter than stock. Didn't even have memory heatsinks which stock cooling does have

So I bought an aftermarket cooler, only to find XFX also changed the pcb, so vrm cooling didn't fit

*sigh*

 

[v8envy]

Awesome thread. People talking about burning-n-returning hoping for a 5850 upgrade. I'm less and less surprised vendor support reps are starting to treat all customers like scum if this is what they're subjected to on a daily basis.

 

[Voo]

I *did* buy a v8 mustang (see sig) and it was ingesting coolant through the headgasket after a month or two. Basically, the cylinder heads were warped. Covered under the warranty, natch. However, there's nothing in the warranty about providing a replacement while the repairs are in progress. And nothing about the repairs having to be timely.

Short story long, I got to drive an Aspire clown car for quite a few weeks while paying insurance on a brand new v8 'stang. It was mortifying. And the original dealership wouldn't even provide a loaner in the first place, I had to look around for one that wanted the warranty business enough to offer one. Needless to say I will not be recommending the original dealership.

Woha, american law from the wrong side (e.g. no multi billion dollar company that can spend millions lobbying) really is scary, though european law is not that much better (and there's always the difference between praxis and theory)

 

[Zstream]

I didn't say they should give back his money, I'm saying he hasn't been assertive. Pay attention.

They'll make good with a 5850 at a reasonable price, they just need some pushing.

I was not specifically talking to you. The OP did state he wanted a refund.

 

[MagickMan]

Ok, my bad then.

 

[RaistlinZ]

I can understand the OP's frustration. XFX cards cost more than other manufacturers mostly because of their "superior" warranty support. If they can't honor the warranty, why are we paying more for their products? :hmm:

The customer shouldn't be the one forced to bite the bullet when it comes to warranty replacement.

 

[Binky]

Sounds like the company is doing everything right!

If I'm reading the OP right, the card isn't *obviously* defective. Coil whine is in a grey area. The card does what it's supposed to do (deliver video to the monitor), but it does it with a very annoying noise. I've had this happen to me on motherboards and video cards, and it is pretty annoying. I took a restocking fee hit on both returns.

But seriously, it sounds like XFX is propsing reasonable solutions. Why the hate?

 

[ymetushe]

Sounds like the company is doing everything right!

If I'm reading the OP right, the card isn't *obviously* defective. Coil whine is in a grey area. The card does what it's supposed to do (deliver video to the monitor), but it does it with a very annoying noise. I've had this happen to me on motherboards and video cards, and it is pretty annoying. I took a restocking fee hit on both returns.

But seriously, it sounds like XFX is propsing reasonable solutions. Why the hate?

XFX DID test the card and DETERMINED THE CARD WAS DEFECTIVE. I mean, they admitted the whining to be the problem. I did not just make it up.

The fact that many cards are making whiny noise does not mean that it is acceptable and consumers should suck it up. The right thing to do for XFX would be to recall all of the cards they know have issues. XFX saved money by using lower quality materials in their products, which resulted in whiny cards. My brother has a Sapphire card, and his is not whining at all.

As far as solutions offered by XFX, I gave a detailed explanation to why I did not accept either one in post #34. I paid full price for the card, which came with a warranty, and it really should not by my problem that they're out of stock. The warranty claim repair or replacement, and they're not doing either.

 

[Itchrelief]

XFX DID test the card and DETERMINED THE CARD WAS DEFECTIVE. I mean, they admitted the whining to be the problem. I did not just make it up.

Seems to me it may fall on the border of legitimate defective RMA and a customer relations RMA.

Unfortunately, it didn't really work out to do much of the latter due to customer expectations.

 

[nitromullet]

I'd take the 5850 for $130. It is somewhat of a forced upgrade, but not a bad one. I'm guessing the real reason you don't want to do it is the loss you'd take in the 4890 water block, which is understandable. At stock the 5850 doesn't look too amazing next to the 4890, but with an OC the 5850 looks a lot like a 5870 which trounces the 4890.

You could start out running it on air, but at XFX's current offer for about $225 total (still less than than retail for a 5850) you could water cool the 5850 as well.