What else besides games is there? What total package? Despite what MS says, this is a GAME console. I don't need to use Xbox as anything else. The current version of Xbox can't do PVR, or playback MP3s (as far as I know, without a hack). I'mnot saying that a future version won't (and it will if Microsoft is smart), and if they release one that does at a similar price, I might buy one then. I buy a GAME console for the GAMES. If you are looking for other things, for 500-1000 dollars you can get a great system from dell (or better yet build one yourself) that will wipe the Xbox on the floor.
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XBOX a failure?
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What else besides games is there? What total package? Despite what MS says, this is a GAME console. I don't need to use Xbox as anything else. The current version of Xbox can't do PVR, or playback MP3s (as far as I know, without a hack). I'mnot saying that a future version won't (and it will if Microsoft is smart), and if they release one that does at a similar price, I might buy one then. I buy a GAME console for the GAMES. If you are looking for other things, for 500-1000 dollars you can get a great system from dell (or better yet build one yourself) that will wipe the Xbox on the floor.
Are you reading the same thread I am? 😛 I hope I really don't have to quote people throughout this entire thread. I've already seen these three... "GC sucks", "PS2 sucks", and "X-Box sucks".
JSRF even better than JGR
I thought I would too. Believe it or not, it's actually a pretty nice control scheme (I LOVE my nostromo n50 and Intellimouse Explorer 3.0, and I was actually starting to miss the "S" controller) But either way...Halo is SUBLIME and a DON'T MISS title, seriously
I don't see DOA3 as mediocre at all, altho more could have/should have been done to differentiate it from DOA2 on DC, which explains the Booster Pack, to a large extent.
Me either...altho that is a HUGE market to ignore.
Better analogy...saying the Xbox is a better system cuz of its hardware is kinda like saying this car wins the quarter mile over this car because it's faster...ie under identical conditions (rendering same title) it can move faster (it looks better, etc.) In the case of non-exclusives, hardware IS important. And the industry does seem to be moving away from exclusives.
No argument there, altho I still maintain that the online strategy might just alter that truism a bit.
SOSTrooper
Platinum Member
Well, not many people will spend $200 on a console just for 2 $50 games. I know I wouldnt. So lets not state the obvious shall we?
CripplerCrossface
Senior member
thats when the fanboys came in and started blowing smokeOriginally posted by: Gr1mL0cK
Are you reading the same thread I am? 😛 I hope I really don't have to quote people throughout this entire thread. I've already seen these three... "GC sucks", "PS2 sucks", and "X-Box sucks".Why can't you people realize we all don't like the same games. It's not that hard.
SOSTrooper
Platinum Member
Hardware power will prove to be important....when a system with the best hardware is also with the best selection of games. From the track record... SNES was the last system that had the best hardware AND best selection of games, but simply cuz its only competition was the Genesis. PSX slashed N64, PSX slashed DC (in terms of sales, but I thought DC had real good potential, thats why I own one), and PS2 is decapitating both XBox and GameCube. Hardware may be a factor, but as of right now, it is not important enough to make every developers to make games on XBox (because it has better hardware) rather than PS2. It could change with the next generation of console, but then again, I said the same thing when MS announced XBox to have 733MHz vs PS2's ~300MHz and GC's ~400MHz (not exactly sure their speed). Only time will tell. For this generation, hardware does not matter, and does not carry a system to success.
CripplerCrossface
Senior member
$500- 1000 includes 10-20 games, the system, 3 extra controllers, xbl, 120 gb hdd, mod chip, dvd contol, various cords and sh|t.just to clarify what i meant.
CripplerCrossface
Senior member
another sherlock. $300= console,1 game, contolls, dvd remote, mem card, multi tap, and various cords. actually its not 300 its adding up to like $450+ tax. And I dont have an extra $500 to burn. gaming is not that serious.
SOSTrooper
Platinum Member
BTW LA Times wrote an article in the past couple of days on XBox's failure to succeed (note that I'm not saying XBox is a failure, but rather failed to succeed). They may be bias, but they did quote and research from game industry analysists. It's much more accurate than all the posts here I'm sure 🙂
After reading the article, I'd have to agree
Ah...analysts...fonts of wisdom, to be sure.
Including yours? 😉
Of course, they don't even mention Xbox Live, altho another piece does highlight the strong demand for PS2's network adapter. Interesting how Sony only shipped 100K of the units to the U.S. initially, even tho they are "producing 400,000 for the U.S. market" for the holiday season.
Head-to-head online play will BE the make-or-break play for MS. I've said this in numerous threads before.
Failed to succeed? Microsoft has been in the console market for what? One year? Have you seen all the kick-ass titles comming out for the Xbox? They are going up against two console giants! I think they are doing a pretty respectable job of it too. Let's see where they are in another year, then we might be able to actually pass judgement.
SOSTrooper
Platinum Member
I'm sure mine arent accurate. I'm just merely stating what I think, and what I see. But I'm sure it makes a lot of sense. I've seen this happening before back with Saturn/N64/PSX 5 years ago. So I'm pretty sure and certain at what I'm talking about. I'm very active in following consoles, I attend E3 and active on IGN. So yah I know some stuff. Enough to take an argument here on anandtech against people will one eye opened 🙂
SOSTrooper
Platinum Member
Sony's first console was a success, it had to go up against veteran Sega's own Saturn and N64 (that came out a year later) in its run, and succeeded. Micrsoft's XBox obvious did not and will not achieve that. Not for its first system, unlike Sony. So dont tell me they've succeeded, they did not overall. They maybe outselling GameCube here (which is a good job), but they did not capture the rest of the world that could've boosted the system's reputation even further. Though they did not fail either, they will only learn from it, and maybe their next generation will raise lots of eyebrows. In the mean time in U.S., PS2 is still number 1, XBox tried but did the best they could, GameCube is trailing behind. XBox will not bounce back enough to reach a respectable level of competition with PS2 even with the Live. Even PSOne outsold the XBox in September by 80,000 units. If XBox takes off in a big way with future titles, your point will be more clear.
SOSTrooper
Platinum Member
Some people (in another forum) told me when XBox launched that in a year it will outsell PS2 with better and more games. Too bad I forgot who told me that, because one year after that (now, mind you), I'm still not proven wrong just yet. In another year, we'll start this topic again in this forum, and we'll see if XBox improved over the year. 🙂
It would be an outrageous to claim that XBox is a success, even though it's yet too early to call it a failure. If you want the true definition of that you've got to look at PS1. That was Sony's first attempt in the business and it made them kings. Can't imagine PS2 still selling strong in 2004? Well, neither did most people imagine PS1 still selling strong in 1999! Sony crunched every bit of juice out of PS1 and expect them to do the same with PS2. The market share MS gained was not from Sony, it was mainly from Sega's leftovers and Nintendo. No one can disagree that PS1 had incredibly strong sales, but note that PS2 is currently selling at a rate of 2.5 times the rate that PS1 was selling at. I just don't see how XBox and NGC is seriously affecting PS2's sales right now.
The XBox radicals here should open their eyes. Because the video game business doesnt evolve around the North America; in fact, what matters most is the market in Japan. Sega seized hardware production because DC couldn't sell in Japan. Nintendo lost their monopoly because they didn't have anything against the PS1 in Japan, and not even N64 could regain the crown for them. XBox's sales looks awfully bad because it couldnt sell in Japan no matter how much they cut the price and what they put in the bundle. XBox, if keeps relying on PC game ports, will not suceed in Japan because computer games to video games is David to Goliath in Japan. You can argue that both DC and XBox sold all right in the US, so who cares what goes on in Japan? But matter of fact is, success in Japan is vital for survival. It was in Japan that Sega failed, and it was in Japan that Nintendo lost. And I will bet, if XBox keeps struggling in Japan, MS might not even release XBox2 there, and thus receive less support from big-name Japanese game makers. And here is a hard truth for MS, there is very little demand for XBox outside of North America. So how good is an XBox that kicks ass on paper but doesn't go international?
Some of you argue that PS2 needed a period of time to get rolling, which is true. But XBox has already had 11 months to do that. PS2, by its 11th month, was tearing up the sales charts, both in consoles shipped and games sold. XBox's second year will be a crucial one, if it still wants to make a run at PS2 for its money, it will have to accomplish a lot more than they did in 2002, otherwise I can only imagine an unhappy ending to MS's shot in the video game market. There is no brand loyalty involved here, people simply buy the best console out there because there is just something about the PS2 that makes it that much more appealing. If brand loyalty plays such a significant role then Nintendo and Sega should never find themselves in the position they are in today. The XBox, at the current state, will not attract people who already have capable PCs, and will hardly attract true console gamers because of its PC resemblance and reliance on ports. What MS should do is try to stop treating the video game business like it's computer games. Be agressive in negotiating with the Japanese game makers, land contracts with them so that they will develop their big titles on XBox, and get them to make exclusive games for XBox. It is these Japanese game makers that will make the difference, because most US game makers are multi-platform. What's more from these Japanese makers? Diversity and games that will sell in Japan, which is key to selling the consoles in Japan, because sports and shooter games don't propel you to the top. If XBox can do those in 2003, it will pick up in the sales and popularity, because I tell you the truth, few true console gamers take the XBox seriously right now.
The XBox radicals here should open their eyes. Because the video game business doesnt evolve around the North America; in fact, what matters most is the market in Japan. Sega seized hardware production because DC couldn't sell in Japan. Nintendo lost their monopoly because they didn't have anything against the PS1 in Japan, and not even N64 could regain the crown for them. XBox's sales looks awfully bad because it couldnt sell in Japan no matter how much they cut the price and what they put in the bundle. XBox, if keeps relying on PC game ports, will not suceed in Japan because computer games to video games is David to Goliath in Japan. You can argue that both DC and XBox sold all right in the US, so who cares what goes on in Japan? But matter of fact is, success in Japan is vital for survival. It was in Japan that Sega failed, and it was in Japan that Nintendo lost. And I will bet, if XBox keeps struggling in Japan, MS might not even release XBox2 there, and thus receive less support from big-name Japanese game makers. And here is a hard truth for MS, there is very little demand for XBox outside of North America. So how good is an XBox that kicks ass on paper but doesn't go international?
Some of you argue that PS2 needed a period of time to get rolling, which is true. But XBox has already had 11 months to do that. PS2, by its 11th month, was tearing up the sales charts, both in consoles shipped and games sold. XBox's second year will be a crucial one, if it still wants to make a run at PS2 for its money, it will have to accomplish a lot more than they did in 2002, otherwise I can only imagine an unhappy ending to MS's shot in the video game market. There is no brand loyalty involved here, people simply buy the best console out there because there is just something about the PS2 that makes it that much more appealing. If brand loyalty plays such a significant role then Nintendo and Sega should never find themselves in the position they are in today. The XBox, at the current state, will not attract people who already have capable PCs, and will hardly attract true console gamers because of its PC resemblance and reliance on ports. What MS should do is try to stop treating the video game business like it's computer games. Be agressive in negotiating with the Japanese game makers, land contracts with them so that they will develop their big titles on XBox, and get them to make exclusive games for XBox. It is these Japanese game makers that will make the difference, because most US game makers are multi-platform. What's more from these Japanese makers? Diversity and games that will sell in Japan, which is key to selling the consoles in Japan, because sports and shooter games don't propel you to the top. If XBox can do those in 2003, it will pick up in the sales and popularity, because I tell you the truth, few true console gamers take the XBox seriously right now.
CripplerCrossface
Senior member
Ps2 had no competion at its 11 month period. it had no choice but to sell like hotcakes. the xbox can not and will not die. nintendo will be the first one to pull out even with all of their exclusives and japanese support. they are going to go software only. which is better for everyone because then u dont have to pay an extra $190 to play mario. just my opinion
CripplerCrossface
Senior member
i wasnt trying to insult you. i had said no sh|t sherlock to someone earlier and i didnt feel like typing that again. I could have taken the fact that u thought i thought the ps2 was $300 as an insult but i wasnt clear on my statement.
<<Ps2 had no competion at its 11 month period. it had no choice but to sell like hotcakes.>>
Can the same be said about PS1? Did the video game newcomer tore up sales charts because there was no competition!?? Some times you need to defy traditional logic; PS1 was able to do it in spite of an overwhelmingly dominant Nintendo , XBox was not, and so it will not enjoy the success level that Sony had enjoyed.
<<the xbox can not and will not die.>>
Optimistically speaking... if they do go down, I'd at least like to see them put up a good fight like Sega did.
<<nintendo will be the first one to pull out even with all of their exclusives and japanese support. they are going to go software only. which is better for everyone because then u dont have to pay an extra $190 to play mario. just my opinion>>
I don't see Nintendo pulling out first, in fact, I don't see anyone going away at least for the next three years. And overall, NGC has had better success around the world than XBox had. It just makes little sense to me that the maker of the hot selling GBA will go software-only.
Can the same be said about PS1? Did the video game newcomer tore up sales charts because there was no competition!?? Some times you need to defy traditional logic; PS1 was able to do it in spite of an overwhelmingly dominant Nintendo , XBox was not, and so it will not enjoy the success level that Sony had enjoyed.
<<the xbox can not and will not die.>>
Optimistically speaking... if they do go down, I'd at least like to see them put up a good fight like Sega did.
<<nintendo will be the first one to pull out even with all of their exclusives and japanese support. they are going to go software only. which is better for everyone because then u dont have to pay an extra $190 to play mario. just my opinion>>
I don't see Nintendo pulling out first, in fact, I don't see anyone going away at least for the next three years. And overall, NGC has had better success around the world than XBox had. It just makes little sense to me that the maker of the hot selling GBA will go software-only.
CripplerCrossface
Senior member
with microsofts backing the xbox cant die. unless billy wants to renig.
nintendo would be better off doiung software. Its expensive to come up with new hardware with r&d and the like. plus we are at an age where consoles are sold at a loss. with gc being in third place what is the point of them continuing making hardware?
They of course will continue to dominate the portable market but their stronghold on the consoles was lost years ago. its time for them to go out on a high(profit) note.
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