MrControversial
Senior member
The only reason why PC's need so much memory is overhead. Xenon will be running one game at a time. I don't know about you guys, but my PC doesn't run one thing at a time.
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Xbox 2 specifications now officially available
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MrControversial
Senior member
Razor...razorblades. Console manufacturers aren't in the business to sell consoles, they're in to sell games. They'll lose money on a $300 console, but if they sell 50 million units and each unit has an attach rate of 5 $50 games...do the math.
Let's say they lose around $100 per console, then that's -$5 billon dollars. But they'll make $12.5 billion in game sales. They net $7.5 billion dollars and that's shooting low because the price of the components goes down after time. Basic economics folks. For example, I own 30+ Xbox games. There are millions of Xbox owners just like me.
The console industry is a software business, not a hardware one.
fishmonger12
Senior member
if someone can beat me in ut2k4 with an xbox controller, that's when i'll switch. until then, fast, precise optical mouse and keyboard for life : )
Cheesetogo
Diamond Member
If these specs are true, then I would buy one, take all the parts out of it and make it into a pc with one of those cards. The companies that sell them would make a fortune. They are basically going to be selling a $2000 computer for $300. Can these specs really be true?
JackBurton
Lifer
If they release it at $299, I'll buy it the day it comes out. Sh!t, even if they release it at $499 I'll buy it the day it comes out.
doublejbass
Banned
And that model failed, champ! Why did they axe the HD from the base model of XBNext? Because they lost too much money on the original XBox hardware sales.
As you said in an earlier post, the PS2 admits defeat graphically. However, if I had to recommend someone a current gen system now, it would be PS2 without a doubt, as you're 100% right about the software argument. MS had great sales this season BECAUSE of a MFG strike by Sony. Sony's in the driver's seat, and they'll be staying there. 😉
Eug
Lifer
Undoubtedly they'll be taking a loss on each unit sold, but if they can make it up in software sales...
Also, the 3 GHz of a Xenon won't be like the 3 GHz of a G5, or even the 3 GHz of a P4. The core is capable of performing much less per clock. However, with 3 cores it's still a monster. 🙂
It will be interesting to see how the games pan out.
Xenon is gonna have 3 moderate speed cores. Run the code on just one core and the game may just suck. The coders are gonna have to really try to make use of all three cores.
Cell is gonna have a much faster clocked CPU with a PPE core very similar to Xenon's core, but most of the work is supposed to be done by the SPE vector units, of which there are a ton of them.
Porting and optimization of these games from one platform to the other is gonna prove interesting... 😛
Also, the 3 GHz of a Xenon won't be like the 3 GHz of a G5, or even the 3 GHz of a P4. The core is capable of performing much less per clock. However, with 3 cores it's still a monster. 🙂
It will be interesting to see how the games pan out.
Xenon is gonna have 3 moderate speed cores. Run the code on just one core and the game may just suck. The coders are gonna have to really try to make use of all three cores.
Cell is gonna have a much faster clocked CPU with a PPE core very similar to Xenon's core, but most of the work is supposed to be done by the SPE vector units, of which there are a ton of them.
Porting and optimization of these games from one platform to the other is gonna prove interesting... 😛
doublejbass
Banned
Well said.
MrControversial
Senior member
They lost money because of the initial investment of the Xbox and initiatives like Xbox Live which cost Microsoft $2 billion to set-up. Then let's not mention Japan. Cutting the hard drive kinda pissed me off as well, but they want to cut the cost of the console so they don't lose as much. Did you know that this quarter the Xbox division turned its first profit? They weren't expecting a profit until next generation.
doublejbass
Banned
Yes, but the point being TOO MUCH money was lost giving away the HDD in the base Xbox.
Halo 2 helped, but the only reason the XBox division turned a profit was because of Sony's manufacturing strike and subsequent shortage.
Halo 2 helped, but the only reason the XBox division turned a profit was because of Sony's manufacturing strike and subsequent shortage.
MaverickBP
Golden Member
i will buy both. be like me and own all systems...never have to settle. but not everyone can do that. its true the money is in the games. microsoft said theyd like a price point of $300. i wouldnt be surprised to see anything between $3-400 with the console markets steady climb in price over the years. They also said the games are gonna cost more to make. which means either we pay the difference, ending up in more expensive games, or we get shorter games. personally thats bs
SynthDude2001
Lifer
Wow...sounds pretty impressive. And although I've never owned a console before (never really had the money when I was younger), I'd probably jump on this for $300. Hell, I paid more than that last summer just for my 6800GT.
Did the article mention what kind of video outputs the system would have? I'd be running this through my LCD monitor (2005FPW), as I'm living in a dorm and can't really afford a huge HDTV nor would I have room for one. If it's component only, then that would give me an excuse to upgrade to the 2405FPW...😛
Did the article mention what kind of video outputs the system would have? I'd be running this through my LCD monitor (2005FPW), as I'm living in a dorm and can't really afford a huge HDTV nor would I have room for one. If it's component only, then that would give me an excuse to upgrade to the 2405FPW...😛
doublejbass
Banned
it's all about the overhead of the OS. dedicated consoles have next to no overhead, as was already noted in this thread.
I thought the latest rumor was calling this machine Xbox 360 or just 360.... Also, the other day i read about there being 3 versions, a base model, a model with a HDD in it ( i would assume you could buy the base and microsoft will sell you a "special" HDD for an increased cost if you wanted to add it later on). The third is to be a xbox 360 PC, which is a computer with WinXP media center edition that plays xbox games; this version being set to release at the same time as PS3 to steal some of Sony's thunder, the base model earlier than PS3 to gain market share. Of course, nothing is confirmed. :beer:
imported_g33k
Senior member
Xbox will look better than current gen gfx cards? When is the release date for this product?
About the Xbox division finally turning over profits...
I reckon in the last 6-12 months Xboxs have just become much more desirable. People have started to get weened off their PS2s. Lots of people I know have bought Xboxs recently, despite swearing by their PS2s for years. I dont think I took the Xbox that seriously when it came out, but now its the only console I own.
Xbox Live & Halo 2 are the only reasons you need to own an Xbox instead of any of the other consoles, in my opinion.
Unfortunately the PS2 does seem to have much more popular pads than the Xbox, but in my experience the PS2 ones break much more easily that the Xbox ones. And while the dualshock is good for sports and driving games, the Xbox Controller S is just *PERFECT* for FPS on consoles.
I reckon in the last 6-12 months Xboxs have just become much more desirable. People have started to get weened off their PS2s. Lots of people I know have bought Xboxs recently, despite swearing by their PS2s for years. I dont think I took the Xbox that seriously when it came out, but now its the only console I own.
Xbox Live & Halo 2 are the only reasons you need to own an Xbox instead of any of the other consoles, in my opinion.
Unfortunately the PS2 does seem to have much more popular pads than the Xbox, but in my experience the PS2 ones break much more easily that the Xbox ones. And while the dualshock is good for sports and driving games, the Xbox Controller S is just *PERFECT* for FPS on consoles.
Xbox started making its first profits after HALO2
Xenon (the official name) will cost $450
GPU - Xenon's GPU is a generation beyond the ATI X800. Its clock speed is 500 MHz and it supports Shader 3.0. Developers are currently working with an alpha 2 GPU. Beta GPU units are expected by May and the final GPU is slated for a summer release. The final GPU will be more powerful than anything on the market today; in game terms, it would handle a game like Half-Life 2 with ease.
Optical Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon will not use Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Games will come on dual-layer DVD-9 discs. While the media is the same as that of the current Xbox, the usable space on each disc is up to 7 GB. The drive is slated to run at 12X.
Memory Units - Xenon will use 64 MB to 1,024 MB memory cards. 8 MB is reserved for system use, leaving a 56 MB to 1,016 MB for user data.
Hard Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon's hard drive is optional. 2 GB of the drive will be used as game cache. The final drive size is still being determined.
As well as presumed EyeToy-style gaming, the camera is one of the all-new Xbox Life features. Players will be able to take photos of themselves which can be used in-game, for placing pictures on user profiles and for video chat.
It cannot be stressed how important Xbox Live2 is for xenon. According to GDC mutterings, Microsoft is requiring that all Xbox 2 games be Live enabled. The future is online.
Games will also need to tie in with a central gamer profile feature, which is basically a sinister log of just about everything you do over Xbox Live: your scores, your reputation, special significant gaming achievements... it's all logged.
Even when not online everything is saved to your profile, so that developers can see your times and scores against everyone else who has the game. They can then award you with special gifts, awards or gamer profile points for being excellent.
An update to the Gamertag system currently in place is the 'Gamer Card'. This holds all your crucial profile information, such as your picture, name and stats and can be given to other players you deem worthy of friendship. Players can store 1500 friends ? a limit unlikely to be reached by anyone.
Marketplace. Browseable by game, by genre, and in a number of other ways, the Marketplace will provide a one-stop shop for consumers to acquire episodic content, new game levels, maps, weapons, vehicles, skins and new community-created content.
Micro-transactions. Breaking down barriers of small-ticket online commerce, micro-transactions will allow developers and the gaming community to charge as little as they like for content they create and publish on Marketplace. Imagine players slapping down $.99 to buy a one-of-a-kind, fully tricked-out racing car to be the envy of their buddies.
Xenon (the official name) will cost $450
GPU - Xenon's GPU is a generation beyond the ATI X800. Its clock speed is 500 MHz and it supports Shader 3.0. Developers are currently working with an alpha 2 GPU. Beta GPU units are expected by May and the final GPU is slated for a summer release. The final GPU will be more powerful than anything on the market today; in game terms, it would handle a game like Half-Life 2 with ease.
Optical Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon will not use Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. Games will come on dual-layer DVD-9 discs. While the media is the same as that of the current Xbox, the usable space on each disc is up to 7 GB. The drive is slated to run at 12X.
Memory Units - Xenon will use 64 MB to 1,024 MB memory cards. 8 MB is reserved for system use, leaving a 56 MB to 1,016 MB for user data.
Hard Drive - As many have speculated, Xenon's hard drive is optional. 2 GB of the drive will be used as game cache. The final drive size is still being determined.
As well as presumed EyeToy-style gaming, the camera is one of the all-new Xbox Life features. Players will be able to take photos of themselves which can be used in-game, for placing pictures on user profiles and for video chat.
It cannot be stressed how important Xbox Live2 is for xenon. According to GDC mutterings, Microsoft is requiring that all Xbox 2 games be Live enabled. The future is online.
Games will also need to tie in with a central gamer profile feature, which is basically a sinister log of just about everything you do over Xbox Live: your scores, your reputation, special significant gaming achievements... it's all logged.
Even when not online everything is saved to your profile, so that developers can see your times and scores against everyone else who has the game. They can then award you with special gifts, awards or gamer profile points for being excellent.
An update to the Gamertag system currently in place is the 'Gamer Card'. This holds all your crucial profile information, such as your picture, name and stats and can be given to other players you deem worthy of friendship. Players can store 1500 friends ? a limit unlikely to be reached by anyone.
Marketplace. Browseable by game, by genre, and in a number of other ways, the Marketplace will provide a one-stop shop for consumers to acquire episodic content, new game levels, maps, weapons, vehicles, skins and new community-created content.
Micro-transactions. Breaking down barriers of small-ticket online commerce, micro-transactions will allow developers and the gaming community to charge as little as they like for content they create and publish on Marketplace. Imagine players slapping down $.99 to buy a one-of-a-kind, fully tricked-out racing car to be the envy of their buddies.
imported_X
Senior member
"also, remember most games are being run at lower resolutions, textures, models, etc don't have to be nearly as large"
That's what I'm worried about. Why settle for lower quality graphics when they could just bump up the RAM? I would be willing to pay more for a console that provided a noticeable increase in graphics quality through having more RAM. Is there going to be dedicated RAM in the R500 GPU?
That's what I'm worried about. Why settle for lower quality graphics when they could just bump up the RAM? I would be willing to pay more for a console that provided a noticeable increase in graphics quality through having more RAM. Is there going to be dedicated RAM in the R500 GPU?
JackBurton
Lifer
This is a big question for me, but probably not that important to others. Will I be able to use my XBox controller with the new Xenon console? I LOVE the original XBox controller and I have a special controller that won't be matched in the console world (or PC world for that matter) for a LONG time. I would love to move it over to the new Xenon console.
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