Xbox 2 - "No hard drive" says CEO of M-Systems Flash Disk Pioneers

[nowayout99]

Originally posted by: magomago
I also think its a bad idea to get rid of the HDD, because storage wise downloading levels with high textures and things of the sort definitely seems to be a huge selling point. I mean MS touted the Xbox's HD like crazy

If it's true, I don't think the impact would be that big. While there is a potential upside to having the HD, developers hardly ever take real advantage of it. MS never made a compelling case for WHY the hard drive they included was so important. They marketed the hard drive like crazy but they didn't back it up with enough substance. Its main purpose has been niche and low-level uses like game saves and CD ripping.

As I said in my AT response to the news story, in a market where content sells the hardware, and not in reverse, this is a good lesson for MS to learn... damn noobs.

 

[jdogg707]

Originally posted by: nowayout99

Originally posted by: magomago
I also think its a bad idea to get rid of the HDD, because storage wise downloading levels with high textures and things of the sort definitely seems to be a huge selling point. I mean MS touted the Xbox's HD like crazy

If it's true, I don't think the impact would be that big. While there is a potential upside to having the HD, developers hardly ever take real advantage of it. MS never made a compelling case for WHY the hard drive they included was so important. They marketed the hard drive like crazy but they didn't back it up with enough substance. Its main purpose has been niche and low-level uses like game saves and CD ripping.

As I said in my AT response to the news story, in a market where content sells the hardware, and not in reverse, this is a good lesson for MS to learn... damn noobs.

I am not sure how you get that developers don't take advantage of the hard drive, I mean all Xbox Live games take advantage of it, games with larger textures or maps download information to the hard drive for faster access, and many developers are using it as a way to store features, again, mostly for online content. There are also products like the Xbox Music Maker that use the hard drive to store songs and allow for more songs to be downloaded/shared over a network, by using the hard drive as a buffer. Microsoft said all along that it was using the hard drive for the above reasons, especially for online capable games, I mean if you play Halo and watch how the game loads different parts of levels, it does it quite quickly due to the hard drive, I mean could you imagine waiting for the DVD to load those? The problem is that better content can be created with the availability of better hardware. Without the Xbox hard drive, it runs into the same problem Sony has with it's online setup, certain features like downloadable content, updates, and more expansive games (like final Fantasy that Sony is shipping the hard drive with as a bundle item) will require more than small flash memory to accomodate them. IF Microsoft leaves out the Hard Drive, Xbox Live is going to have to change drastically along with their stance of marketing the Xbox as a next generation home console (Playing CD's, ripping CD's, Music Maker, Live, Possible PVR capabilities, DVD, etc.).

 

[JellyBaby]

Obviously the anti-piracy, anti-modding and increased reliability perks for MS are clear.

Replacing the HD with flash memory is bad news for gaming. If the Xbox 2 has a limited capacity to persist game state data, game developers will target that least common denominator not just for Xbox games but for co-developed PC games. Whereas PC savegames today can be rather large due to plenty of secondary storage, tomorrow's PC games may be designed more simply to allow for limited storage. Personally, I believe we have enough "simple" PC games thank you very much. I'd hate to see MS hurt gaming even further.

 

[KhoiFather]

Scooby doo?

 

[nowayout99]

Originally posted by: jdogg707

Originally posted by: nowayout99

Originally posted by: magomago
I also think its a bad idea to get rid of the HDD, because storage wise downloading levels with high textures and things of the sort definitely seems to be a huge selling point. I mean MS touted the Xbox's HD like crazy

If it's true, I don't think the impact would be that big. While there is a potential upside to having the HD, developers hardly ever take real advantage of it. MS never made a compelling case for WHY the hard drive they included was so important. They marketed the hard drive like crazy but they didn't back it up with enough substance. Its main purpose has been niche and low-level uses like game saves and CD ripping.

As I said in my AT response to the news story, in a market where content sells the hardware, and not in reverse, this is a good lesson for MS to learn... damn noobs.

I am not sure how you get that developers don't take advantage of the hard drive, I mean all Xbox Live games take advantage of it, games with larger textures or maps download information to the hard drive for faster access, and many developers are using it as a way to store features, again, mostly for online content. There are also products like the Xbox Music Maker that use the hard drive to store songs and allow for more songs to be downloaded/shared over a network, by using the hard drive as a buffer. Microsoft said all along that it was using the hard drive for the above reasons, especially for online capable games, I mean if you play Halo and watch how the game loads different parts of levels, it does it quite quickly due to the hard drive, I mean could you imagine waiting for the DVD to load those? The problem is that better content can be created with the availability of better hardware. Without the Xbox hard drive, it runs into the same problem Sony has with it's online setup, certain features like downloadable content, updates, and more expansive games (like final Fantasy that Sony is shipping the hard drive with as a bundle item) will require more than small flash memory to accomodate them. IF Microsoft leaves out the Hard Drive, Xbox Live is going to have to change drastically along with their stance of marketing the Xbox as a next generation home console (Playing CD's, ripping CD's, Music Maker, Live, Possible PVR capabilities, DVD, etc.).

Xbox Live is used by less than 10% of all Xbox users, the last I checked. So whatever uses the HD has that aren't niche don't have much reach. Song creation is niche. Big maps don't "need" the HD. It's really convenient to have, but video games with big maps on other systems thus far have done fine without a HD.

Nonetheless, it's probably not an accurate article.

 

[Gagabiji]

Why do you even care about the Xbox 2? The PC is the ultimate gaming machine.

P.S. IMHO.

 

[ElFenix]

i thought the games loaded off the hard drive to decrease the (typically) horrendous load times you would get without it. take the PS2 version of a game and compare it to the xbox version, the xbox should load super fast in comparison

 

[peonyu]

I like how so many of you expect MS to keep the hard drive in so you guys can pirate thier games and use it as a linux box, as though thats an incentive for them to do so.

 

[jdogg707]

Originally posted by: nowayout99

Originally posted by: jdogg707

Originally posted by: nowayout99

Originally posted by: magomago
I also think its a bad idea to get rid of the HDD, because storage wise downloading levels with high textures and things of the sort definitely seems to be a huge selling point. I mean MS touted the Xbox's HD like crazy

If it's true, I don't think the impact would be that big. While there is a potential upside to having the HD, developers hardly ever take real advantage of it. MS never made a compelling case for WHY the hard drive they included was so important. They marketed the hard drive like crazy but they didn't back it up with enough substance. Its main purpose has been niche and low-level uses like game saves and CD ripping.

As I said in my AT response to the news story, in a market where content sells the hardware, and not in reverse, this is a good lesson for MS to learn... damn noobs.

I am not sure how you get that developers don't take advantage of the hard drive, I mean all Xbox Live games take advantage of it, games with larger textures or maps download information to the hard drive for faster access, and many developers are using it as a way to store features, again, mostly for online content. There are also products like the Xbox Music Maker that use the hard drive to store songs and allow for more songs to be downloaded/shared over a network, by using the hard drive as a buffer. Microsoft said all along that it was using the hard drive for the above reasons, especially for online capable games, I mean if you play Halo and watch how the game loads different parts of levels, it does it quite quickly due to the hard drive, I mean could you imagine waiting for the DVD to load those? The problem is that better content can be created with the availability of better hardware. Without the Xbox hard drive, it runs into the same problem Sony has with it's online setup, certain features like downloadable content, updates, and more expansive games (like final Fantasy that Sony is shipping the hard drive with as a bundle item) will require more than small flash memory to accomodate them. IF Microsoft leaves out the Hard Drive, Xbox Live is going to have to change drastically along with their stance of marketing the Xbox as a next generation home console (Playing CD's, ripping CD's, Music Maker, Live, Possible PVR capabilities, DVD, etc.).

Xbox Live is used by less than 10% of all Xbox users, the last I checked. So whatever uses the HD has that aren't niche don't have much reach. Song creation is niche. Big maps don't "need" the HD. It's really convenient to have, but video games with big maps on other systems thus far have done fine without a HD.

Nonetheless, it's probably not an accurate article.

So Sony really didn't need a hard drive for Final Fantasy, they just included one because they thought it would be a good idea? Over 750,000 people use Xbox Live and Microsoft expects that number to grow to over a million in the next year, so how is that just a "niche" in the market? The other thing is that no other console has textures and maps that are as detailed as the Xbox, hence the reason the hard drive is a necessary, because of the better textures and the ability to use render them, they need a place to be stored, running them off of the disk would take way too much time and make the games slow and almost unplayable.

 

[theNEOone]

i think that this is an excellent move on microsoft's part. i currently own about 25 games, and have played close to 60 - most of which i still have save slots for in my HD. i also play xbox live and have downloaded levels fro splinter cell, updates for nfl fever, mechassault, etc. guess how much space i've used? less than 10%. the effect of moving to flash memory (or microdrives) will only have positive effects on the consumer - lower noise, heat, smaller design. the people that are going to miss the space are the select few that backup their games, or people who use the xbox for illegal purposes - something microsoft would LOVE to get rid of.

as far as the quality of a possible microdrive, it's an ignorant statement to say that it's notoriously more unreliable than a standard HD. i'd love to invite anyone to subject a standard HD to the abuse a typical microdrive might experience and then maybe we'll talk about reliability. also realize that the new ipod mini's and muvo2 have a microdrive: both of these devices are intended for long term, high impact use. if the drives weren't reliable, mac and creative wouldn't put them in their devices, only to have customers return them by the boatloads. and need we talk about the limited use that a storage drive in an xbox has? not much. if anything, a microdrive is going to be MORE reliable for the intended uses than a standard HD might be.

 

[nowayout99]

Originally posted by: jdogg707

Originally posted by: nowayout99

Originally posted by: jdogg707

Originally posted by: nowayout99

Originally posted by: magomago
I also think its a bad idea to get rid of the HDD, because storage wise downloading levels with high textures and things of the sort definitely seems to be a huge selling point. I mean MS touted the Xbox's HD like crazy

If it's true, I don't think the impact would be that big. While there is a potential upside to having the HD, developers hardly ever take real advantage of it. MS never made a compelling case for WHY the hard drive they included was so important. They marketed the hard drive like crazy but they didn't back it up with enough substance. Its main purpose has been niche and low-level uses like game saves and CD ripping.

As I said in my AT response to the news story, in a market where content sells the hardware, and not in reverse, this is a good lesson for MS to learn... damn noobs.

I am not sure how you get that developers don't take advantage of the hard drive, I mean all Xbox Live games take advantage of it, games with larger textures or maps download information to the hard drive for faster access, and many developers are using it as a way to store features, again, mostly for online content. There are also products like the Xbox Music Maker that use the hard drive to store songs and allow for more songs to be downloaded/shared over a network, by using the hard drive as a buffer. Microsoft said all along that it was using the hard drive for the above reasons, especially for online capable games, I mean if you play Halo and watch how the game loads different parts of levels, it does it quite quickly due to the hard drive, I mean could you imagine waiting for the DVD to load those? The problem is that better content can be created with the availability of better hardware. Without the Xbox hard drive, it runs into the same problem Sony has with it's online setup, certain features like downloadable content, updates, and more expansive games (like final Fantasy that Sony is shipping the hard drive with as a bundle item) will require more than small flash memory to accomodate them. IF Microsoft leaves out the Hard Drive, Xbox Live is going to have to change drastically along with their stance of marketing the Xbox as a next generation home console (Playing CD's, ripping CD's, Music Maker, Live, Possible PVR capabilities, DVD, etc.).

Xbox Live is used by less than 10% of all Xbox users, the last I checked. So whatever uses the HD has that aren't niche don't have much reach. Song creation is niche. Big maps don't "need" the HD. It's really convenient to have, but video games with big maps on other systems thus far have done fine without a HD.

Nonetheless, it's probably not an accurate article.

So Sony really didn't need a hard drive for Final Fantasy, they just included one because they thought it would be a good idea? Over 750,000 people use Xbox Live and Microsoft expects that number to grow to over a million in the next year, so how is that just a "niche" in the market? The other thing is that no other console has textures and maps that are as detailed as the Xbox, hence the reason the hard drive is a necessary, because of the better textures and the ability to use render them, they need a place to be stored, running them off of the disk would take way too much time and make the games slow and almost unplayable.

A HD for one game... yeah, that qualifies as niche. But the potential online PS2 market is far bigger than Live's in the first place. Like I also said, it's probably not an accurate article.

 

[MDE]

Who says they can't go to a 2.5" notebook drive?