Xbitlabs: Comparison of current APUs

[Dark Shroud]

Don't care what company it is but CPU's paired with barely mediocre gaming GPU's make no sense. HD4000 is crappy and low power enough for me to consider it 'integrated graphics' of old, so fine. Its plenty fast for flash and facebook games.

But I do not see the point in making an APU with some $60 discrete GPU equivalent. It doesn't do anything well enough to be worth it over an HD4000, or just getting an actual decent discrete chip.

Either make it nothing/integrated or make it reasonably useful like a 7790 or something.

The AMD APUs support features that Intel's i3s and lower do not. Starting with hardware support for encryption.

The APU's IGP also actually runs compute/GPGPU functions in ways that Intel's do not. This makes them very useful for work environments.

The updated Richland APUs also have more hybrid crossfire options. So when the IGP isn't enough it still helps when crossfired with a discrete card in ways that Intel can only dream of.

Would I recommend a A10-5800k to someone who isn't planning to over clock or do gaming on it, probably not.

I do recommend APUs for non-gamers period at this point. They're cheaper than Intel with better support for video playback. Which is all most people need.

 

[monstercameron]

guess your a minority. made this topic on a few sites before.

Downscaling from 1080p to 720p looks awful. Black bars too. If you don't like black bars and you stretch it, it looks even worse with low or high quality settings.

Also it's not a blanket statement. 1080p has been around for many years and the monitors are cheap.

1440x900 is old. That is like ancient 17" and 19" monitors. I use to have one like 7 years ago before it got scratched and I chucked it.

You can upgrade a graphics card, you can't upgrade an APU. You already get the top of the line one and you are stuck.

Graphics card you could get something like a 7700 which can actually play games at 1080p on ok settings. They have gone on sale for under $100 before.

APU is a bad investment. Only reason I would ever buy an APU is for a family member if they wanted a HTPC. It would have to be a really cheap combo deal with a motherboard with hdmi.

For gaming, nope.

the part about upgrading an apu isnt really true, what is stopping trinity based a10 owners from upgrading to richland based apus?

 

[frozentundra123456]

exactly! then when they check the forums and see everyone bashing it, that doesnt really help.

I dont see people "bashing" it. They are making a realistic assessment of it capabilities, which are very, very limited for a gaming platform.

 

[Piroko]

You can play games like Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3... So can my HD4000.

Have you done so? The ulv HD4000 definitely isn't a smooth experience even without shadows, just asking if the regular fares better.

 

[frozentundra123456]

the part about upgrading an apu isnt really true, what is stopping trinity based a10 owners from upgrading to richland based apus?

So the person that buys an off the shelf system and is too imtimidated to add a discrete gpu is supposed to remove a cpu and replace it?

 

[monstercameron]

So the person that buys an off the shelf system and is too imtimidated to add a discrete gpu is supposed to remove a cpu and replace it?

read please

 

[blckgrffn]

I built a 5600k system for some friends because they had a really tight budget.

I didn't want to go with a two thread system because I know they will keep it for years. It was replacing a northwood P4.

I wanted their young children to be able to play kids types games and have them at least work leveraging current drivers, etc. They sometimes play some guild wars and were tossing a system with a freaking 5900SE in it. It was going to get the job done with a 1280*1024 monitor.

And it had to be as cheap as possible. I went for an SSD over an add in GPU because one is used all the time and the other is used in passing.

Given the right factors, these APUs can make sense.

That's what AMD is relegated to now. Small niches. I think there are plenty of folks who want to be able to play some PC games at some point but will absolutely balk at the idea of dropping $90+ for the privilege.

I am hosting a LAN this weekend and we'll be playing CS:GO, DoD Source, TF2 and BF1942. The weakest card there will likely be my backup 6770 and there will be plenty of GTX 580 and 7950 type cards there. But someone could show up with an AMD APU and have as much fun as the rest of us. That's pretty cool.

Also, I wanted to say that I am glad to have seen this article. Good info.

Lastly - GPU performance at this level matters. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6877/the-great-equalizer-part-3 <-- that article really surprised me. If AMD APU's are out in front of the HD4000, then they are better than some high end cards from ~5 years ago, plenty of I will speculate are still in use. APUs are about being "good enough" IMHO.

 

[Sleepingforest]

I would recommend an APU for general HTPC usage because of the lower power needs (thus less fan power needed) and better video playback (as Darkshroud said), but I find it very hard to recommend it for gaming.

They have a very limited use case as of right now--the next generation is looking better for budget gamers if GDDR5 doesn't cost too much. I'm not trying to bash APUs, but you have to be realistic about what they can do (like 30-40 frames per second at 768p with no extra details at all in games). If you are willing to accept those limitations, that's fine. But many of us are willing to take the extra power usage and 10% higher cost (in the States) to get 50% better performance.

 

[frozentundra123456]

read please

Dont really see the relevance of the link you posted, I already read all your posts. Now that I think about it, upgrading from Trinity to Richland makes even less sense than I thought before. You will get what, max 20 to 25% increase in graphics for a 100.00 plus upgrade with the hassle of removing and replacing the cpu, while "upgrading" to a discrete card would increase performance 50% plus for the same price, probably less.

 

[Hubb1e]

Last time I checked AMD had something called a PCI-e x16 slot on their motherboards so you could add a discrete video card so yes, you can "upgrade" an APU and even crossfire with your new card.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Last time I checked AMD had something called a PCI-e x16 slot on their motherboards so you could add a discrete video card so yes, you can "upgrade" an APU and even crossfire with your new card.

If you are referring to my post, I know you can add a discrete card, although I am dubious about the benefits of asymmetric crossfire.

Monster was suggesting upgrading from Trinity to Richland, which would imply changing the entire APU unless I somehow misunderstood what he was saying.

Edit: direct quote of his post: "what is stopping trinity based a10 owners from upgrading to richland based apus?" This would imply either changing out the APU or getting an entire new system would it not?

 

[Shephard]

the part about upgrading an apu isnt really true, what is stopping trinity based a10 owners from upgrading to richland based apus?

so your going to go from average graphics performance APU to not much better graphics performance APU.

I would rather spend that money on a real graphics card.

Have you done so? The ulv HD4000 definitely isn't a smooth experience even without shadows, just asking if the regular fares better.

Actually it did fine on SC2. Go read a few posts back. Medium settings, NATIVE RESOLUTION no downscaling, no lag, 30+ fps.

You guys make it sound like APU can play everything and HD4000 cannot. That is simply not true. Both suck however for a enjoyable gaming experience.

 

[inf64]

Not only you can upgrade to Richland, you can probably upgrade to 4-6T/512SP Kaveri too.

 

[Hubb1e]

Not only you can upgrade to Richland, you can probably upgrade to 4-6T/512SP Kaveri too.

And Kaveri will be able to crossfire with the 7750 or 7770 and provide some actual benefits rather than the 10% people have gotten with the 7750 and Trinity crossfire testing that has been going on recently. I don't think FM2 will be as bad as FM1 was. It may not be AM3 in logevity, but it won't be a 754 or FM1

 

[mikk]

The updated Richland APUs also have more hybrid crossfire options. So when the IGP isn't enough it still helps when crossfired with a discrete card in ways that Intel can only dream of.

Crossfire is crap because of the heavy micro stuttering. If you need more GPU power, buy a dedicated graphics card.

 

[Dark Shroud]

Crossfire is crap because of the heavy micro stuttering. If you need more GPU power, buy a dedicated graphics card.

In order to crossfire you already are buying a dedicated graphics card.

I also love that now it's heavy micro stuttering.

 

[monstercameron]

so your going to go from average graphics performance APU to not much better graphics performance APU.

I would rather spend that money on a real graphics card.


Actually it did fine on SC2. Go read a few posts back. Medium settings, NATIVE RESOLUTION no downscaling, no lag, 30+ fps.

You guys make it sound like APU can play everything and HD4000 cannot. That is simply not true. Both suck however for a enjoyable gaming experience.

I didnt specify the model, so I am sure going for an a8-5400 to an a10-6700 is a big jump...

 

[Shephard]

I didnt specify the model, so I am sure going for an a8-5400 to an a10-6700 is a big jump...

lol I am sorry but if your going to spend $100 on a APU with SLIGHTLY better graphics? What a poor use of money if your a gamer. Put that money towards a card.

It's not even out yet and the benchmarks don't look much better.

 

[Piroko]

so your going to go from average graphics performance APU to not much better graphics performance APU.

I would rather spend that money on a real graphics card.


Actually it did fine on SC2. Go read a few posts back. Medium settings, NATIVE RESOLUTION no downscaling, no lag, 30+ fps.

Tried it at medium settings, 1600*900 and it went from smooth to choppy to smooth to choppy, that's more annoying than a constant choppiness. Didn't try more than a minute at low settings, seemed okay but SC1 looks nicer...

You guys make it sound like APU can play everything and HD4000 cannot. That is simply not true. Both suck however for a enjoyable gaming experience.

Dunno, if I yt different games + 5800k there's usually a video showcasing how good said game runs (very good in most cases). I've gained the impression that the HD4000 does much better in benchmarks than in actual gaming compared to Trinity. Especially when Intel likes to call everything HD4000 from the 1300 Mhz QM version down past the more typical 1100/1050 Mhz versions to the ulv abomination...

 

[Shephard]

not sure what you are talking about smooth to choppy maybe it's your internet connection.

I played at 1680x1050 medium settings, ultra physics. 3570k 8gb ram hd4000. Ran smooth.

Anyway Starcraft 2 isn't a graphical intensive game.

APU's are a waste of money for a real gamer. Get a real graphics card.

APU are only good as a cheap HTPC if you can get a apu/mobo combo.

Anyone recommending these for a gaming computer is out of there mind... lowest graphic settings, not playable fps, down scaling resolution...

 

[mikk]

down past the more typical 1100/1050 Mhz versions to the ulv abomination...

ULV APUs from AMD are not any faster in the same power envelope.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Lastly - GPU performance at this level matters. http://www.anandtech.com/show/6877/the-great-equalizer-part-3 <-- that article really surprised me. If AMD APU's are out in front of the HD4000, then they are better than some high end cards from ~5 years ago, plenty of I will speculate are still in use. APUs are about being "good enough" IMHO.

What really struck me the other day is that even a lowly GT640 actually has better specs then a Radeon HD3870 (apart from memory bandwidth). Even a 5700/5800K actually has more shaders then the 3850/70 and, in the 5800K's case higher clockspeed as well. That's 5 years of progress. Now if only someone could find a solution to the APU's limited memory bandwidth...

 

[Idontcare]

Now if only someone could find a solution to the APU's limited memory bandwidth...

Solutions are easy and abundant, but that isn't the problem nor is it really what you are asking for.

The problem, and what you want, is for someone to find an inexpensive cost-effective solution...and that takes time (and money) which ultimately runs counter to the goal in the first place (as all that expense must be amortized into the productized solution).

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Solutions are easy and abundant, but that isn't the problem nor is it really what you are asking for.

The problem, and what you want, is for someone to find an inexpensive cost-effective solution...and that takes time (and money) which ultimately runs counter to the goal in the first place (as all that expense must be amortized into the productized solution).

I stand corrected.

Edit; Perhaps some form of on-package (correct term?) GDDR5 could be used as a high performance "L3" cache...?

 

[Homeles]

I stand corrected.

Edit; Perhaps some form of on-package (correct term?) GDDR5 could be used as a high performance "L3" cache...?

HBM/HMC would be a better solution.