Xbit article on HD4830 CF vs HD4870 1GB

[Lonyo]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...-hd4830-crossfire.html

I was surprised by how cheap the HD4830 has become, with the cheapest 2 cards from Newegg (with MIR) you can get HD4830 CF for $165, and a single HD4870 512MB is $165, or $200 for a 1GB card.
(Card 1 Card 2)
Certainly it could be worth it, in some ways, to go for a cheap Crossfire setup (for once) instead of a single faster card.

Obviously Crossfire still has problems, and a single card is almost always going to be more reliable than two cards in CF or SLI, but it makes the question of cheap CF vs single card more interesting.

 

[SunnyD]

Thanks, I was actually wondering about this myself.

 

[Tempered81]

512mb HD4830 new is $75 shipped A/R. so $150... I've seen benches of it stomping a GTX280OC.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: jaredpace
512mb HD4830 new is $75 shipped A/R. so $150... I've seen benches of it stomping a GTX280OC.

Quoted for truth. There's so many option these days with Crossfire and SLI and have very compelling performance. makes me wonder why I would want to spend $300 on GTX 280 when you can get nearly same performance for much less.

 

[angry hampster]

Well damn, I wish I had a CF motherboard.

 

[AstroManLuca]

This is almost enough to make me want to upgrade my mobo (currently a DFI Infinity NF570, no SLI, no CF), but if I did that, I'd want to get a new processor at the same time, and then I'm looking at $400+ to go CPU/mobo/graphics.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: jaredpace
512mb HD4830 new is $75 shipped A/R. so $150... I've seen benches of it stomping a GTX280OC.

makes me wonder why I would want to spend $300 on GTX 280 when you can get nearly same performance for much less.

...because you would also need a good crossfire motherboard and because it doesn't always scales and has some driver issues.

 

[Denithor]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: jaredpace
512mb HD4830 new is $75 shipped A/R. so $150... I've seen benches of it stomping a GTX280OC.

Quoted for truth. There's so many option these days with Crossfire and SLI and have very compelling performance. makes me wonder why I would want to spend $300 on GTX 280 when you can get nearly same performance for much less.

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
This is almost enough to make me want to upgrade my mobo (currently a DFI Infinity NF570, no SLI, no CF), but if I did that, I'd want to get a new processor at the same time, and then I'm looking at $400+ to go CPU/mobo/graphics.

There's why. Not everyone has a CF or SLI motherboard ready to drop in a second card.

 

[allies]

Damn...knew I got the UD3P for a reason

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

Well, the performance numbers are exciting.

Unfortunately, the number of hitches and hiccups involved are more then enough to drive me off. The extra money for the single gpu solutions generally aren't just buying you extra frames (if they're buying them at all), but rather, a vastly reduced chance of the technology hiccuping, artifacting, or flat out not working. Saving $100 doesn't seem like a good deal if the price you pay is having your games be a crapshoot.

 

[angry hampster]

Originally posted by: PhatoseAlpha
Well, the performance numbers are exciting.

Unfortunately, the number of hitches and hiccups involved are more then enough to drive me off. The extra money for the single gpu solutions generally aren't just buying you extra frames (if they're buying them at all), but rather, a vastly reduced chance of the technology hiccuping, artifacting, or flat out not working. Saving $100 doesn't seem like a good deal if the price you pay is having your games be a crapshoot.

That's quite true. Also, you can get a 4870 1GB today for $185, so the performance/$$ may not be that huge to begin with .

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: jaredpace
512mb HD4830 new is $75 shipped A/R. so $150... I've seen benches of it stomping a GTX280OC.

Quoted for truth. There's so many option these days with Crossfire and SLI and have very compelling performance. makes me wonder why I would want to spend $300 on GTX 280 when you can get nearly same performance for much less.

you won?t be able to avoid the problems in games. The jerkiness in Far Cry 2 makes the gameplay most uncomfortable, for example. There are image defects in 3DMark Vantage and Unreal Tournament 3. CrossFireX mode is disabled in Cryostasis: Sleep of Reason when you change the display resolution, and in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:Clear Sky you need to restart the rendering engine manually to enable CrossFireX. Besides, a system with two Radeon HD 4830 consumes more power than a system with one Radeon HD 4870.

When you throw in need of a Crossfire motherboard, no PhysX, no CUDA, no 3D Vision, microstuttering, and waiting for profiles on new games, there are still a couple reasons someone might want a GTX280.

That said, some nice performance for $150 there. Definitely bang for buck there.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: jaredpace
512mb HD4830 new is $75 shipped A/R. so $150... I've seen benches of it stomping a GTX280OC.

Quoted for truth. There's so many option these days with Crossfire and SLI and have very compelling performance. makes me wonder why I would want to spend $300 on GTX 280 when you can get nearly same performance for much less.

you won?t be able to avoid the problems in games. The jerkiness in Far Cry 2 makes the gameplay most uncomfortable, for example. There are image defects in 3DMark Vantage and Unreal Tournament 3. CrossFireX mode is disabled in Cryostasis: Sleep of Reason when you change the display resolution, and in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:Clear Sky you need to restart the rendering engine manually to enable CrossFireX. Besides, a system with two Radeon HD 4830 consumes more power than a system with one Radeon HD 4870.

When you throw in need of a Crossfire motherboard, no PhysX, no CUDA, no 3D Vision, microstuttering, and waiting for profiles on new games, there are still a couple reasons someone might want a GTX280.

That said, some nice performance for $150 there. Definitely bang for buck there.

Then you throw out CUDA (unless you can think of a game it's useful for...?), 3D Vision (requires expensive monitor/glasses, and the whole point of this entire thing is best performance for the price), and you get PhysX (which isn't widely used at the moment) and problems.

Problems are (arguably) inherent to multi card solutions vs single card, and need serious consideration from ATI before their entire strategy becomes viable, but most of the other elements are minor things for ATI, since they are either expensive or not widely used.
Remember that if you get a single GTX280 you miss out on DX10.1.

Basically Crossfire might be viable, and this sort of pricing makes it look promising for the future (and kind of vindicates ATI's strategy), assuming first and foremost that they sort out all the goddamn problems they have!

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: jaredpace
512mb HD4830 new is $75 shipped A/R. so $150... I've seen benches of it stomping a GTX280OC.

Quoted for truth. There's so many option these days with Crossfire and SLI and have very compelling performance. makes me wonder why I would want to spend $300 on GTX 280 when you can get nearly same performance for much less.

you won?t be able to avoid the problems in games. The jerkiness in Far Cry 2 makes the gameplay most uncomfortable, for example. There are image defects in 3DMark Vantage and Unreal Tournament 3. CrossFireX mode is disabled in Cryostasis: Sleep of Reason when you change the display resolution, and in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:Clear Sky you need to restart the rendering engine manually to enable CrossFireX. Besides, a system with two Radeon HD 4830 consumes more power than a system with one Radeon HD 4870.

When you throw in need of a Crossfire motherboard, no PhysX, no CUDA, no 3D Vision, microstuttering, and waiting for profiles on new games, there are still a couple reasons someone might want a GTX280.

That said, some nice performance for $150 there. Definitely bang for buck there.

Right and SLI doesn't get affected? :laugh: Microstuttering is blown out of proportion and so are most of the reasons you listed when you pay half the price of GTX 280 and still be on par.

Cuda? What else is there besides folding and video encoding? It's mostly crap that I don't ever use other than video encoding on a occasion and ATI cards can do that too.

PhysX is so over rated and so is 3d vision. I get graphic anomalies with PhysX and my frame rates bottoming out to single digits. Is everyone willing to buy a 120hz monitor just to have 3dvision? Of course not. You get free toys from Nvidia so that might be cool for you but definitely not cool for people who have to pay for such crapapolistic toys. 3dvision is nuisance that doesn't work correctly. Gets in the way of hard core gaming sessions.

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: nRollo

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: jaredpace
512mb HD4830 new is $75 shipped A/R. so $150... I've seen benches of it stomping a GTX280OC.

Quoted for truth. There's so many option these days with Crossfire and SLI and have very compelling performance. makes me wonder why I would want to spend $300 on GTX 280 when you can get nearly same performance for much less.

you won?t be able to avoid the problems in games. The jerkiness in Far Cry 2 makes the gameplay most uncomfortable, for example. There are image defects in 3DMark Vantage and Unreal Tournament 3. CrossFireX mode is disabled in Cryostasis: Sleep of Reason when you change the display resolution, and in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.:Clear Sky you need to restart the rendering engine manually to enable CrossFireX. Besides, a system with two Radeon HD 4830 consumes more power than a system with one Radeon HD 4870.

When you throw in need of a Crossfire motherboard, no PhysX, no CUDA, no 3D Vision, microstuttering, and waiting for profiles on new games, there are still a couple reasons someone might want a GTX280.

That said, some nice performance for $150 there. Definitely bang for buck there.

Right and SLI doesn't get affected? :laugh: Microstuttering is blown out of proportion and so are most of the reasons you listed when you pay half the price of GTX 280 and still be on par.

Cuda? What else is there besides folding and video encoding? It's mostly crap that I don't ever use other than video encoding on a occasion and ATI cards can do that too.

PhysX is so over rated and so is 3d vision. I get graphic anomalies with PhysX and my frame rates bottoming out to single digits. Is everyone willing to buy a 120hz monitor just to have 3dvision? Of course not. You get free toys from Nvidia so that might be cool for you but definitely not cool for people who have to pay for such crapapolistic toys. 3dvision is nuisance that doesn't work correctly. Gets in the way of hard core gaming sessions.

LOL

I'd be happy to discuss any/all of the above with you in a thread about NVIDIA hardware.

 

[funboy6942]

My kitten can beat up grizzly bears

 

[Elfear]

Very interesting article OP. Thanks for posting. Even though multi-gpu solutions do have their problems they have some nice benefits too like untouchable performance in most situations or, in this case, great bang for your buck.

With the 4870 1GB being so cheap right now though it would be worth spending the extra $35 over the Xfired 4830s.

 

[TC91]

I think nRollo makes a very good point in this situation.

 

[kmmatney]

I have to say that I'm pretty happy with the HD4830 even as a single card. I let the Catalyst Control Center overclock it to HD4850 speeds, which my card handles with no sweat - I went a little higher and that worked as well, but I backed it down to HD4850 speeds, as I am happy with that. I've noticed that adding 4X AA doesn't hurt performance very much either.

Great card for $75, when you factor in the easy overclock to HD4850 speeds.

Edit - I just read the article and they do show overclocked results, which are quite impressive! Their overclock is way higher than mine, which is not too surprising, since I was conservative. I wish I had a crossfire motherboard...

 

[Spicedaddy]

Originally posted by: nRollo

When you throw in need of a Crossfire motherboard, no PhysX, no CUDA, no 3D Vision, microstuttering, and waiting for profiles on new games, there are still a couple reasons someone might want a GTX280.

nobody cares about those...

but like others have said, dual video cards will always be more problematic than a single. (SLI or CF)

 

[Fox5]

The pervasiveness of Crossfire is one of the few things AMD has done right recently. Just about every AMD platform sold now supports it, and quite a few Intel platforms. Compare that to SLI where you have to go out of your way to spend more just to make sure you have it.

BTW, can Crossfire work with two cards of different speeds? Like a 4670 and a 4830? That would leave a whole lot more room for upgrading.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Originally posted by: Spicedaddy

Originally posted by: nRollo

When you throw in need of a Crossfire motherboard, no PhysX, no CUDA, no 3D Vision, microstuttering, and waiting for profiles on new games, there are still a couple reasons someone might want a GTX280.

nobody cares about those...

but like others have said, dual video cards will always be more problematic than a single. (SLI or CF)

QFT.

I dont give a crap about any of those. Its not like Physx would work on my spare 8800GTS 320mb. It doesn't support G80 cores. So boo Nvidia, Boo Boo Boo!

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx

Originally posted by: Spicedaddy

Originally posted by: nRollo

When you throw in need of a Crossfire motherboard, no PhysX, no CUDA, no 3D Vision, microstuttering, and waiting for profiles on new games, there are still a couple reasons someone might want a GTX280.

nobody cares about those...

but like others have said, dual video cards will always be more problematic than a single. (SLI or CF)

QFT.

I dont give a crap about any of those. Its not like Physx would work on my spare 8800GTS 320mb. It doesn't support G80 cores. So boo Nvidia, Boo Boo Boo!

PhysX has been supported on G80 cores with the intro of the 177.79 drivers in August 08.
Using two 8800GTS640's in SLI mode or Primary render Secondary PhysX in two separate rigs with 177.79's and PhysX works fine.
And yes, it will work on your 8800GTS 320.

Now, can you guys get back OT?

 

[nRollo]

The main problem with solutions like this as "replacements" for high end single cards is the variable nature of scaling in games.

With the high end single GPU cards (HD4870, GTX280, etc) you get that level of performance in every game. With a low end multi GPU solution it's all over the board depending on how well games scale, or if they do at all.

Crossfire exacerbates this issue with ATi's refusal to open up the drivers and let people see which games have profiles, or create profiles for games.

An additional downside of a solution like this compared to a high end single card is the 512MB RAM 1GB solutions have been the norm at high end for almost a year.

 

[evolucion8]

The review was nice, but since the demand for VRAM has gone up quite a lot since the introduction of DX10, I can see that later on, the edge in performance will go to the HD 4870 with 1GB of VRAM and for God sakes, stop the nVidia propaganda here, nobody cares about CUDA, PhysX and Stereo thing, don't know why people here don't understand that bashing their rivals will not change people's way of thinking, the reasoning doesn't scream, it convince the people with nice features that will not dry your wallet (Unlike the stereoscopic thing), PhysX is nice and CUDA is not a must have, specially for us the gamers. Far Cry 2 stuttering ocurrs in DX10 with ATi and nVidia cards alike, the only way that I found to solve it it was capping the FPS, or using FRAPS to record my gameplay which is an easy way to fill up your HD. Microstuttering affects all multi GPU configuration.. The HD 4830 is a hell of a card for such low price, is like having an HD3870X2 in a single GPU, strangely enough, the latter one still faster, probably due to it's 800MHz GPU clocks.