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Question x86 and ARM architectures comparison thread.

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The thing I find annoying is removing microSD ports. Many tablets and even the surface pro no longer have them so that they can upsell storage at 10x the cost.
 
I heard PLENTY of backlash about Apple abandoning the USB-A port on their laptops. I was supporting a sizeable group of Mac users when it happened. There were a LOT of complaints by the users.

No one gave a spit. Apple said buy a hub.
 
Doug S said:
Also because keyboard/mice are low speed peripherals. Unless you want to designate a few USB-C ports as low speed you're going to waste I/O links providing a bunch of full speed USB-C ports only to have them used for slow HID devices. If you took the capacity for one USB-C port you could split it into three USB-A ports for storage drive, keyboard and mouse and because the keyboard/mouse are so slow your storage drive will still be running at full speed.
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Full USB-C is also needlessly complicated for basic peripherals compared to USB 2.0, which raises costs of everything.

johnsonwax said:
Apple ditched USB-A on laptops NINE years ago.
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You say that as if was the only right thing to do while it was closer to something between idiocy and bullying.

johnsonwax said:
You'd think if this was a problem there'd be some backlash on it.
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You haven't noticed?
Of course, the company and the unquestioning fandom vigilantes keeps handwaving it from the second the 2015 slap-in-the-face in the form of a laptop appeared in the sermon keynote.
 
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Jan Olšan said:
Of course, the company and the unquestioning fandom vigilantes keeps handwaving it from the second the 2015 slap-in-the-face in the form of a laptop appeared in the sermon keynote.
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I hated the 2015 MacBook and I hated the 2016 MacBook Pro design even more.
4-5 years of crap laptops

Not to mention keyboard failures, ssd failures, motherboard failures (very frequent on the 12” MacBook), screen failures from the cable being too short when closing, overheating when doing basic tasks and NO esc key.

Apple had bottom of the barrel engineers and PMs during the development of these laptops and it showed. They couldn’t design a laptop without it breaking somehow.
 
Given how deeply the marketing guys managed to root the marketing messages about "superior build quality", "premium materials" and so on (interestingly they don't think praising how great it is to have the apple care extra cost is inconsistent with the reliability and quality story), sometimes I wonder if the numerous flaws were/are partially intentional and they are trying to make the buyers shake in fear at the idea of getting a Windows laptop - because everyone knows they are worse and if Apple is this bad, Lord preserve you if you were unlucky to get a thing that's below Apple quality. You'll probably die, right?

Since there seems to be a common concept amongst the more heartfelt Apple fans that PC laptops break all the time/barely make it across the warranty etc.
 
Jan Olšan said:
Since there seems to be a common concept amongst the more heartfelt Apple fans that PC laptops break all the time/barely make it across the warranty etc.
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Every tech YouTube channel hated the 2016 MBPs and almost all moved to windows laptops even most MacBook fans. Tech publications recommended to avoid any MacBook with a butterfly keyboard That more than anything saw Apple back down and revert the mistakes, lost sales and a massive sink in reputation.
 
On the ARM front, apparently Microsoft has shipped an update to Prism (their x86 emulator) that supports AVX and related extensions. More applications and games that require this should work now.
 
poke01 said:
nothng beats a M4 mini in perf/w
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It can be better than that config too, and the 65W is achieved by existing components, meaning a purpose built one would be better. 6500XT is RDNA2, while RDNA4 and RTX 5000 series for example are far more efficient. They compared RTX 3050 to RTX 4060 Ti and the latter achieved 35% more performance per watt.

Also, a completely customizable desktop is bounds better than the closed off ones.
If we see Time Spy graphic score:
RTX4060Ti 8G with 65w : 6621 (See my testing screenshot)

Compare with RTX3050:
RTX3050 8G with 130w : 6290
RTX3050 6G with 70w : 4869
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In my heatsink mod it can handle 80-90w 8588 score (+76%) performance. I believe it is good to replace with RTX3050 if you have the budget.
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Apple isn't worlds ahead in GPU unlike CPU. Because GPU is mostly about having enough units while CPU requires smarts to increase ST performance.
 
Jan Olšan said:
Given how deeply the marketing guys managed to root the marketing messages about "superior build quality", "premium materials" and so on (interestingly they don't think praising how great it is to have the apple care extra cost is inconsistent with the reliability and quality story), sometimes I wonder if the numerous flaws were/are partially intentional and they are trying to make the buyers shake in fear at the idea of getting a Windows laptop - because everyone knows they are worse and if Apple is this bad, Lord preserve you if you were unlucky to get a thing that's below Apple quality. You'll probably die, right?

Since there seems to be a common concept amongst the more heartfelt Apple fans that PC laptops break all the time/barely make it across the warranty etc.
Click to expand...
Well my nvidia bumpgate infected 2008 MacBook never got its eth working @ 1G after warranty, thanks both to nvidia and Apple. 2008. Nothing new, huh.

Not surprised about 2015/2016 crap.
 
DZero said:
And now Qualcomm is preparing an exit stage for ARM in case everything goes wild.
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It took Apple, with its closed and controlled software ecosystem, 8 years to make the switch from x86 to Arm. I wish Qualcomm the best on the fragmented Android market 😅

I wonder if they don't intend to use Ventana CPUs for other markets such as a CPU for their AI systems first.

But yeah that nonetheless sounds like a message to Arm.
 
NTMBK said:
Quick way to get some extra experienced designers and eliminate a potential competitor.
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Yes to the former, no to the latter.

At best Ventana only would have been a competitor if acquired by nVidia/Samsung/Mediatek/Apple etc.

We've already seen this exact same burst in new custom cores early on in the ARM server craze before the software infrastructure or customer interest was yet mature enough to justify it - needless to say so many of those endeavors went nowhere or got acquired, including ironically Qualcomm's own server core Falkor (which I assume was based on Kryo µArch continuity).

Eventually the market will stabilize with less lone wolf players in the same way.
 
poke01 said:
I hated the 2015 MacBook and I hated the 2016 MacBook Pro design even more.
4-5 years of crap laptops

Not to mention keyboard failures, ssd failures, motherboard failures (very frequent on the 12” MacBook), screen failures from the cable being too short when closing, overheating when doing basic tasks and NO esc key.

Apple had bottom of the barrel engineers and PMs during the development of these laptops and it showed. They couldn’t design a laptop without it breaking somehow.
Click to expand...
My Lenovo Yoga failed because of a switch. Apparently usually the plastic mechanism pressing the switch breaks. In my case, the switch itself was worn out and eventually it was halfway off the board. And when I traveled, I would have it on sleep mode but it would wake up all the time because the switch is on the side. You make a 2.5lb convertible but you do that? I mean... yea they don't care. So Apple is not an outlier.

Framework is #1 for me now. Reviews and people talk about how expensive it is, but they never talk about long term costs. Framework is going to be cheaper because you can easily replace only the components you need. But then again most of the population have zero saving or financial education. That's how you save money, and build wealth - by thinking long term. I realized how stupid credit cards were too. I felt that I was buying more stuff than necessary to get the 1%(4% at best) cashback awards on it. Which means I was losing 10x what I would gain.
 
DavidC1 said:
Framework is #1 for me now. Reviews and people talk about how expensive it is, but they never talk about long term costs. Framework is going to be cheaper because you can easily replace only the components you need. But then again most of the population have zero saving or financial education. That's how you save money, and build wealth - by thinking long term. I realized how stupid credit cards were too. I felt that I was buying more stuff than necessary to get the 1%(4% at best) cashback awards on it. Which means I was losing 10x what I would gain.
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Framework is good. I just have different preferences when it comes to laptops. I value battery life, efficiency and excellent stand by/instant wake. I replace my laptops every five years and so I have no need for a Framework laptop. Its great to have more options to choose from though.

As for how expensive Framework is, it IS expensive the more you spec it up. An equivalent AMD HX 370 Framework is more expensive than a M5 32GB RAM/1TB SSD Macbook in Australia. The FW mainboards are costly as well.
 
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poke01 said:
Framework is good. I just have different preferences when it comes to laptops. I value battery life, efficiency and excellent stand by/instant wake. I replace my laptops every five years and so I have no need for a Framework laptop. Its great to have more options to choose from though.

As for how expensive Framework is, it IS expensive the more you spec it up. An equivalent AMD HX 370 Framework is more expensive than a M5 32GB RAM/1TB SSD Macbook in Australia. The FW mainboards are costly as well.
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I don't need the latest laptops. I can buy a DIY version and a 11th Gen motherboard for $289. So over the long term that strategy works well to actually save money. In 2002, I was frantic about getting the latest device. Core 2 system was the first to feel "this was enough". Of course software bloat made that no longer the case, but I have a 10th Gen Pentium and this will be going on for quite a while. So will my father's Core 2 Quad for his purposes. By the way, that system had a Pentium dual core. Core 2 Quad did nothing for his usage. Felt exactly the same.

When you have to chuck the entire laptop, then the cost equation changes entirely. Same with prebuilt desktops. They are cheaper than DIY(it used to be not the case, but changed few years ago), but DIY is way cheaper in the long term.

Warranty is way shorter than usage of most electronics. When you drop that M5 in a few years, they will be costly to replace. Or when you get water on it. Or it just wears out because.
adroc_thurston said:
nope, lmao.
They're horrible laptops.
Cool idea though.
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Just cause you are invested in certain industry doesn't make your opinions valid.

Also the open standards give you an option to opt out of things. Your "awesome" laptops will totally screw you when the rest of the manufacturers come aboard the "You'll own nothing and be happy" mantra.
 
DavidC1 said:
Just cause you are invested in certain industry doesn't make your opinions valid.
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Framework makes horrible dingy laptops and the USB-C dongle idea is just plain dumb, it trips SOC power management like there's no tomorrow.
It's a cool idea with atrocious execution.
DavidC1 said:
Your "awesome" laptops will totally screw you when the rest of the manufacturers come aboard the "You'll own nothing and be happy" mantra.
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Laptops are laptops, they haven't changed in a billion years.
Like, MBA introduced mainstream/premium T&L as a concept in 2008 and nothing changed since.
Also I'm a EUpilled zogbot and I like Schwab-san.
 
DavidC1 said:
When you have to chuck the entire laptop, then the cost equation changes entirely. Same with prebuilt desktops. They are cheaper than DIY(it used to be not the case, but changed few years ago), but DIY is way cheaper in the long term.

Warranty is way shorter than usage of most electronics. When you drop that M5 in a few years, they will be costly to replace. Or when you get water on it. Or it just wears out because.
Click to expand...
why would you chuck the whole laptop away?
Laptop manufacturers provide parts replacements.
 
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