X800XL

[Transistor]

If you have read the preview on the X800XL at Anandtech.com, I can't believe that ATI is really going to sell this card for $299. They are going to undercut the X800Pro by about $130 and it performs better than the X800Pro. That would mean that they would have to sell the X800Pro for about $250, with the introduction of this card and currently they are going for about $430. This card is pretty similar to the 6800GT, which sells for about $400. So, it's going to undercut that card by $100 also. If ATI does it, I'll cheer because the price of the entire video card market will have to adjust dramatically in price to account for it. But, until I see it, I don't believe what ATI is telling us. This card would have to be delayed until March or April for the $299 price to make sense.

It's one thing to say, here's a product. Now you have to wait a couple of months for it. Unfortunately, that's basically the norm now days. But IMO, this is a whole new level of BS. Now they are going to give us these ridiculous prices too? Companies think they can feed us this stuff and then not deliver? Maybe they think they can play with our minds to control the vid card market, like we are pawns in their game. I'm not falling for it anymore.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2299

Here's Anand's take on this, from his article:

If you ask us, we don't know who or what to believe anymore. This past year has been filled of missed releases, missed launches and misinformation. From NVIDIA's Video Processor to ATI's disappearing X700 XT, we're tired of all of it. ATI's promise about X850 GPUs being sold a week after they were launched turned out to be empty as we still can't find any X850 based GPUs available for sale. Even after firing off multiple emails to ATI asking for resolution on the availability matter, we were met with nothing but silence. ATI had no problem answering other questions, but all of our queries about X850 availability have been left untouched. Maybe radio silence will make the problem go away...

We don't think so. The credibility of both GPU vendors has been hurt tremendously this year. Neither side can say that they aren't guilty of the very same things that they accuse the other of doing. It's really a shame because in the end, it hurts their consumers, our readers and makes it much more difficult for anyone, including us, to put faith and trust in what we are told by ATI and NVIDIA.

I agree with Anand and Tom's Hardware. These games are getting way out of hand.

Edit:
Oops, didn't see the other thread about the same card:
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...6925&enterthread=y
I started to write this right after I read the review and that thread wasn't up yet. It took me a while to write it because I've been busy. So, I didn't see the other thread. Sorry about the duplication.

That thread is about the performance and benchmarks, this thread will be about the way we are being treated by these companies.

 

[ponyo]

X800XL will be PCIe only. X800pro will be AGP only. Two separate market.

 

[narcotic]

yep, this is a whole new level of BS by both ATI and nVIDIA, unfortunatly there are no other real alternatives, so customers got to capitulate with this.

 

[sellmen]

I agree that the paper launches are getting out of hand, but I don't see any problem with the x800XL. I would love to have 6800GT performance for less than $300! A MSRP of $299 means you'll probably be able to find it online for $270-280; that's a fantastic price for that level of performance.

 

[Transistor]

Originally posted by: Naustica
X800XL will be PCIe only. X800pro will be AGP only. Two separate market.

Even if you take that into consideration, the PCI-E Geforce 6800GTs are going for about $500, showing a premium for PCI-E parts. So, that makes the $299 price even more ridiculous.

 

[RussianSensation]

How certain is everone that these cards wont be in AGP format? Different websites point out that these PCIe cards are capable of being turned into AGP cards and in fact such will most likely follow after January's introduction of R480/430 PCIe cards.

 

[Genx87]

Classic bait and switch.

Sell a product at a silly price point but never deliver. Hoping your competitor will lower prices to beat your mythical product.

I would expect this card to show up in the same timeframe as the X800XTs. About 6 months and maybe available.

Nvidia has been caught with the VP problems. But at least it appears there will be a driver workaround for it. ATI however has gone from stellar launches to deperation hail mary passes on this round of high end GPUs. Anybody who thought ATi planned for the 16 pipe design is smoking something bad. The total lack of the 16 pipe cards from ATI is a good indication nvidia caught them with pants around the ankles.

 

[Transistor]

Originally posted by: sellmen
I agree that the paper launches are getting out of hand, but I don't see any problem with the x800XL. I would love to have 6800GT performance for less than $300! A MSRP of $299 means you'll probably be able to find it online for $270-280; that's a fantastic price for that level of performance.

I don't have a problem with the X800XL itself. The card sounds awesome. I wish I could buy one today for $299. I could have a card that's faster than the X800Pro for $100 dollars less. It almost sounds too good to be true. Wait a moment... It is untrue!

The problem I have is that they want you to believe that you can buy this card for $299. It's not going to happen. Now, not only do they lie to use about launch dates, but also about the price.

Maybe one day the X800XL will cost $299. Probably it will in March or April. But to pretend that they are going to undercut their own X800Pro product by $100 is a joke. Either that, or they are going to delay this until March, and then the price will make sense.

Someone who says that it's in a different market, that's not true either. I just built a new computer for my dad. We could have easily chose a 915 chipset mobo or a 875 chipset mobo to have either PCI-E or AGP. We went with AGP because we could get an ATI X800Pro for $430. If that card was on the market for $299, we would have gone PCI-E and with an X800XL.

 

[Marsumane]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
How certain is everone that these cards wont be in AGP format? Different websites point out that these PCIe cards are capable of being turned into AGP cards and in fact such will most likely follow after January's introduction of R480/430 PCIe cards.

I dont see how a card couldnt be capable of being turned into an agp card. Basically u wont see these in agp for atleast 1/2 a yr is my guess, if at all.

 

[Pnoy02]

Well, I'm only interested in the X800 over the 6600gt, if ATi will not release an AGP version, I'll see Nvidia dominate them in sales. ATi's marketing should be shot, I mean, you release a mainstream performance card, only it caters to less than 10% of the PC users out there since PCIe still has a relatively low user base over AGP, extremely dumb logic. Bad enough manufacturers are taking forever to release AGP version of the 6600GT, ATi might as well declare that they've abandoned it.

 

[ponyo]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation
How certain is everone that these cards wont be in AGP format? Different websites point out that these PCIe cards are capable of being turned into AGP cards and in fact such will most likely follow after January's introduction of R480/430 PCIe cards.

It wouldn't surprise me if some company like Sapphire released AGP version of X800XL. It will have to be later down the line though. By that time 6800GT AGP will probably be around $299 so it's a wash.

 

[Tab]

Explain to me how a $300 PCI-Express Graphics card that plays Half-Life 2 1600x1200 is a bad thing? :|

 

[RMSistight]

The X800 XL looks great and all, but the mere fact that it does not support SLI or something like it makes me not want to get it. I'd rather stick with a 6600GT for $100 less and having SLI capabilities.

 

[futuristicmonkey]

And it's 299 in Canadian dollars! lol, j/k

But serisously, prices here are insane. 9800 Pros are still like ~310, and an X800XT is like ~740!

Edit: Just noticed the inherent stupidness of my post It has been fixornated.

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: RMSistight
The X800 XL looks great and all, but the mere fact that it does not support SLI or something like it makes me not want to get it. I'd rather stick with a 6600GT for $100 less and having SLI capabilities.

Riiiiight.
And the fact that you will need 2 6600GT's to match the X800XL?
And the motherboard which costs more?
I would rather spend the extra $100 on card, save $50 on mobo, and have the performance NOW rather than when I get a second card.
TBH, 6600GT with SLI isn't worth it when it's more expensive and performs at less than the level of a 6800GT in most cases.
(More expensive than a 6800GT and an X800XL)

 

[Pete]

$440 for a X800P? Wasn't Outpost selling them for $330?

ATi won't be releasing any AGP versions of their PCIe VPUs until they get their PCIe-AGP bridge chip (Rialto) working, which is at least a month away, according to a recent AT review (Derek's X700P roundup?).

I agree that reviewing cards before they're on store shelves is unacceptable, but Anandtech and others are going to keep reviewing beta hardware with beta drivers as long as internet readers aim for the first review, not the best. The first reviews no doubt get the benefit of a linkfest, whereas later reviews probably don't get as many extra hits from irregular readers.

 

[Malak]

This just in: ATI is launching an x900 XT with twice the pipelines of the x800, 3x the performance of the 6800U, and for only $199. Coming soon in 2010.

 

[sellmen]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: RMSistight
The X800 XL looks great and all, but the mere fact that it does not support SLI or something like it makes me not want to get it. I'd rather stick with a 6600GT for $100 less and having SLI capabilities.

Riiiiight.
And the fact that you will need 2 6600GT's to match the X800XL?
And the motherboard which costs more?
I would rather spend the extra $100 on card, save $50 on mobo, and have the performance NOW rather than when I get a second card.
TBH, 6600GT with SLI isn't worth it when it's more expensive and performs at less than the level of a 6800GT in most cases.
(More expensive than a 6800GT and an X800XL)

Good points. Two 6600GT's are actually slower than one 6800GT in most cases - meaning they will be slower than a X800XL, while costing more and creating more heat/noise. SLI Motherboards look like they will come at a premium - I know ASUS's model has a MSRP of $200; you can get a good non-SLI board for about $100.

If ATI gets the cards out in sufficient quantities, the consumer will win. Nvidia will have to lower the price of the 6800GT, 6800, and 6600GT to compete; that would be great for consumers.

 

[gobucks]

to be clear, i think the review is wrong. When the X850 was "launched" a few weeks ago, the price breakdown was as follows:
X850XTPE - $550
X850XT - $500
X850 Pro - $450
X800XL - $350
X800 Pro - $300
X800 - $250.

As for prices, even if MSRP is $299, you probably won't get one for less than a 6800GT for quite a while. After all, X800XT's are like $600, which is $150 more than MSRP (cause they aren't PE parts), and the 6800GT is around $500, $100 over MSRP, so the X800XL won't be any different, especially if the availability that's plagued ATI is as bad as it was with the X800XT.

Oh, well, this is looking pretty bad for ATI. nvidia hasn't been great lately for release dates, but it's an angel compared to how ATI has been misbehaving lately. After all, availability of nvidia's 2 little darlings, the 6600GT and 6800GT, are fantastic; in fact, 6600GT AGP cards were available the day they were announced. Throw in the fact that nvidia's feature set is better, and you have lots of problems for ATI.

But, to be fair, the X800XL is a great part at either the $299 or $349 price points, as long as they han hit those prices and supply the cards; i just doubt they can do either.

 

[RealityTime]

Originally posted by: futuristicmonkey
And it's 299 in Canadian dollars! lol, j/k

But serisously, prices here are insane. 9800 Pros are still like ~310, and an X800XT is like ~740, while a 6800GT (made by nVidia - an American company!) is ~730

true. video cards and computer parts in general are VERY expensive in Canada. It sucks. I paid 600 for my 6800gt with tax of course (i am in ontario) it came to $700. which is about oh $575 american

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: RealityTime

Originally posted by: futuristicmonkey
And it's 299 in Canadian dollars! lol, j/k

But serisously, prices here are insane. 9800 Pros are still like ~310, and an X800XT is like ~740, while a 6800GT (made by nVidia - an American company!) is ~730

true. video cards and computer parts in general are VERY expensive in Canada. It sucks. I paid 600 for my 6800gt with tax of course (i am in ontario) it came to $700. which is about oh $575 american

I've relied heavily on FS/FT for my videocards. Everything else here seems just as cheap as stuff in the US though. I don't know why we pay such a premium on graphics cards. What really gets me is that ATi's HQs are just north of Toronto...shouldn't we pay LESS?

I find that the ATi cards are always significantly cheaper than the nVidia ones too for whatever reason.

I always have trouble justifying expensive graphics cards, especially if they will be 90% used for gaming. Six months to a year later their value drops in half; it's insane.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: gobucks
to be clear, i think the review is wrong. When the X850 was "launched" a few weeks ago, the price breakdown was as follows:
X850XTPE - $550
X850XT - $500
X850 Pro - $450
X800XL - $350
X800 Pro - $300
X800 - $250.

As for prices, even if MSRP is $299, you probably won't get one for less than a 6800GT for quite a while. After all, X800XT's are like $600, which is $150 more than MSRP (cause they aren't PE parts), and the 6800GT is around $500, $100 over MSRP, so the X800XL won't be any different, especially if the availability that's plagued ATI is as bad as it was with the X800XT.

Oh, well, this is looking pretty bad for ATI. nvidia hasn't been great lately for release dates, but it's an angel compared to how ATI has been misbehaving lately. After all, availability of nvidia's 2 little darlings, the 6600GT and 6800GT, are fantastic; in fact, 6600GT AGP cards were available the day they were announced. Throw in the fact that nvidia's feature set is better, and you have lots of problems for ATI.

But, to be fair, the X800XL is a great part at either the $299 or $349 price points, as long as they han hit those prices and supply the cards; i just doubt they can do either.

To be fair, the 6800GT/X800XT prices in PCI-e form are driven up because of their scarcity in comparison to the AGP types.

The PCI-e only cards (ie the 6600GT) have hit and gone below the MSRP, and there's no reason not to believe that ATI's new series of cards will retail above MSRP.

If ATI announces an AGP X800XL though, I wouldn't bet on that going below MSRP any time soon...

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: malak
This just in: ATI is launching an x900 XT with twice the pipelines of the x800, 3x the performance of the 6800U, and for only $199. Coming soon in 2010.

My fave post in this thread :laugh:

There has always been a significant delay for hardware releases in Canada, but now it's just getting ridiculous.

This X800XL looks like a killer deal, but as has been said, by the time we can actually buy them, the 6800 GTs will cost the same likely.

This round is a lost cause for ATI, & they seem to think throwing more [unavailable] cards around will somehow fix this.
I am very excited to see what R520 (or whatever it's codenamed) will be like, but till then, the 6800 GT will remain the best price/performance card out there i think.

 

[ronnn]

Personally I think the pci e versions of this card will be retail soon and in numbers. The resulting price war should make pci e the only way to go for new systems. :beer: