ArchAngel777
Diamond Member
We were having a nice intelligent conversation until South decided to troll in our thread. Ok, so back on topic...
OP: Anything new? Thanks again for the information you have provided thus far.
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X1800XL v 7800GTX: My personal review
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We were having a nice intelligent conversation until South decided to troll in our thread. Ok, so back on topic...
OP: Anything new? Thanks again for the information you have provided thus far.
Hi, finally home after a full day.
I will run the X1800 one more time playing WoW and try to make a screenshot. I will them mark this screenshot with comments and see later how can I host it.
Meanwhile, Ackmed mentioned that BF2 shimmers also. I am willing to run the demo before I remove the card.
Any ideas what I should look for?
I will run the X1800 one more time playing WoW and try to make a screenshot. I will them mark this screenshot with comments and see later how can I host it.
Meanwhile, Ackmed mentioned that BF2 shimmers also. I am willing to run the demo before I remove the card.
Any ideas what I should look for?
imported_Rampage
Senior member
Let me know anytime you want to debate any tech again. 😉 Be happy to embarass you.
I played last night BF2 and Fear (both the demos) using the X1800XL
I had AL OFF, AA4 AA8, High Quality everything, Adaptative AA.
There is some shimmering on those games also.
On BF2 you can see it on vegetation (trees), some walls and surfaces that are wavy like potato chips.
On Fear, you can see it on some windows, some walls and brick walls. The potato chip surface too.
Now I am leaving for work, when I come back I will swap the GTX in and look at those games.
At this moment, I think shimmering is not a purchasing parameter anymore. It is there, for both cards. We will have to pick one based on other factors.
I had AL OFF, AA4 AA8, High Quality everything, Adaptative AA.
There is some shimmering on those games also.
On BF2 you can see it on vegetation (trees), some walls and surfaces that are wavy like potato chips.
On Fear, you can see it on some windows, some walls and brick walls. The potato chip surface too.
Now I am leaving for work, when I come back I will swap the GTX in and look at those games.
At this moment, I think shimmering is not a purchasing parameter anymore. It is there, for both cards. We will have to pick one based on other factors.
imported_Rampage
Senior member
Well. He had a snide remark for me so. Someone starts with elementary, I'll return with elementary.
Be courteous and cordial and I'll be the same in return. Fair enough I think.
Good morning folks. I had to go to the hospital yesterday, couldn't post anything. Everything is well now.
As a remark, all gameplay was run with HQ and Clamp for the 7800 (78.03) and HQ and AI OFF for the X1800 (Cat. 5.10a). 1600x1200 AA4 AF8.
AA transparency (Nvidia) seems to be better than AA Adaptive (ATI). This makes a lot of difference on the IQ for vegetation, trees and chain fences.
On the other hand, ATI X1800 seems to provide better IQ to display textures on the floors, walls and here it shimmers equal or less than the 7800 (except for foliage/trees/fences).
If you are going to use Transp. AA, I would say that the trend is the 7800 will provide a bit better experience.
But that depends on the game type - you don't see fences at World of Warcraft. But there are lots of trees.......
At World of Warcraft, the 7800 will give you better IQ while visiting forests, savannahs (mostly because of Transp. AA). There is some shimmering on the 7800 while looking at road paths and ground textures.
The X1800 will provide better experience at desertic areas or underwater. The ground (without considering the grass) and road paths look better also at the ATI.
It is really hard to say which one provides the best experience. I would like to have the road like ATI and the trees like Nvidia.....😉
I played a little bit with the Fear Demo, it seems both cards have shimmering issues there. It is the same, I can't say which one is better.
I also played BF2. Here things complicate a bit. As with WoW, AA transparency (Nvidia) helps with the vegetation, trees and chain fences. But the 7800 shimmers more on the buildings walls and shadows. It shimmers also on some patches (bigger areas), which makes it very noticeable.
The ATI also shimmers, but it is less noticeable. Most of ATI shimmering happens on the vegetation and trees. You can see that on buildings also, but it is less critical than the 7800.
Here I would say the ATI is a bit better - but be warned it is not perfect. It is just a bit better.
This is my opinion, so it is totally dependent on my experience and it is subjective. It isn't a scientific experiment.
I think I will wrap things up here, as I will drive to the store and return the X1800XL in a few minutes:
1) The X1800XL is definetely a noisy product under load.
2) The temperature stays under 80C, contrary to what some people say. If you have one going to 90C, RMA it or check yourself the heatsink/thermal paste, I've had cards before badly assembled.
3) The X1800 will not provide you a shimmer free experience. It seems better than the 7800 in some cases, but it misses the good Transp. AA from the 7800.
On the other hand, the X1800's driver is just at the beginning and it is already at the 7800's level (78.03). Hopefully there is a chance that ATI will improve it even more, like Nvidia did at the 78.03.
4) If you have a 7800 like me, the differences in IQ do not justify switching to the X1800. You have to consider the loss (by selling the 7800) and the current premium for the X1800.
If you do that without test driving the X1800, you could end the day disappointed. The 7800 is also more silent than the X1800, which is a factor to consider - specially because the X1800XL is a slower card than the 7800GTX => slower and louder?
Of course the X1800XT will have a better colling solution and will be less noisy than the XL, but it is a dual slot solution.
5) If you have none of the cards, that would be really a different matter. I would pick the ATI X1800XT (not XL) over the 7800GTX if it had the same price (or less).
If the 7800GTX is cheaper and you have a SLI mainboard, stay with the 7800.
What will I do?
I had a X800 before and never noticed shimmering. I bought a Dell 2405 and had to get a better card, I wanted very much the X1800XT but only the 7800 was available.
I got very disappointed with the shimmering, I was complaining all over the AT Video Forums about it. Some of the Nvidia Fans didn't agree with that.
After this "test drive", I will keep the 7800GTX until something new comes to the market, ATI releases a driver that gets rid of the shimmering or there are substantial price drops.
Remember that price drops will happen for both companies, it might push me also into getting a second 7800 card. I might sell my GTX and get 2 7800 GTs. A 7800 GT SLI setup is roughly 250$ cheaper for me than the GTX SLI.
With new games pushing the cards to the limit, it might be a nice move. Going crossfire will cost me a mainboard also, it might be better to save this money and help it finance the second 7800.
As a remark, all gameplay was run with HQ and Clamp for the 7800 (78.03) and HQ and AI OFF for the X1800 (Cat. 5.10a). 1600x1200 AA4 AF8.
AA transparency (Nvidia) seems to be better than AA Adaptive (ATI). This makes a lot of difference on the IQ for vegetation, trees and chain fences.
On the other hand, ATI X1800 seems to provide better IQ to display textures on the floors, walls and here it shimmers equal or less than the 7800 (except for foliage/trees/fences).
If you are going to use Transp. AA, I would say that the trend is the 7800 will provide a bit better experience.
But that depends on the game type - you don't see fences at World of Warcraft. But there are lots of trees.......
At World of Warcraft, the 7800 will give you better IQ while visiting forests, savannahs (mostly because of Transp. AA). There is some shimmering on the 7800 while looking at road paths and ground textures.
The X1800 will provide better experience at desertic areas or underwater. The ground (without considering the grass) and road paths look better also at the ATI.
It is really hard to say which one provides the best experience. I would like to have the road like ATI and the trees like Nvidia.....😉
I played a little bit with the Fear Demo, it seems both cards have shimmering issues there. It is the same, I can't say which one is better.
I also played BF2. Here things complicate a bit. As with WoW, AA transparency (Nvidia) helps with the vegetation, trees and chain fences. But the 7800 shimmers more on the buildings walls and shadows. It shimmers also on some patches (bigger areas), which makes it very noticeable.
The ATI also shimmers, but it is less noticeable. Most of ATI shimmering happens on the vegetation and trees. You can see that on buildings also, but it is less critical than the 7800.
Here I would say the ATI is a bit better - but be warned it is not perfect. It is just a bit better.
This is my opinion, so it is totally dependent on my experience and it is subjective. It isn't a scientific experiment.
I think I will wrap things up here, as I will drive to the store and return the X1800XL in a few minutes:
1) The X1800XL is definetely a noisy product under load.
2) The temperature stays under 80C, contrary to what some people say. If you have one going to 90C, RMA it or check yourself the heatsink/thermal paste, I've had cards before badly assembled.
3) The X1800 will not provide you a shimmer free experience. It seems better than the 7800 in some cases, but it misses the good Transp. AA from the 7800.
On the other hand, the X1800's driver is just at the beginning and it is already at the 7800's level (78.03). Hopefully there is a chance that ATI will improve it even more, like Nvidia did at the 78.03.
4) If you have a 7800 like me, the differences in IQ do not justify switching to the X1800. You have to consider the loss (by selling the 7800) and the current premium for the X1800.
If you do that without test driving the X1800, you could end the day disappointed. The 7800 is also more silent than the X1800, which is a factor to consider - specially because the X1800XL is a slower card than the 7800GTX => slower and louder?
Of course the X1800XT will have a better colling solution and will be less noisy than the XL, but it is a dual slot solution.
5) If you have none of the cards, that would be really a different matter. I would pick the ATI X1800XT (not XL) over the 7800GTX if it had the same price (or less).
If the 7800GTX is cheaper and you have a SLI mainboard, stay with the 7800.
What will I do?
I had a X800 before and never noticed shimmering. I bought a Dell 2405 and had to get a better card, I wanted very much the X1800XT but only the 7800 was available.
I got very disappointed with the shimmering, I was complaining all over the AT Video Forums about it. Some of the Nvidia Fans didn't agree with that.
After this "test drive", I will keep the 7800GTX until something new comes to the market, ATI releases a driver that gets rid of the shimmering or there are substantial price drops.
Remember that price drops will happen for both companies, it might push me also into getting a second 7800 card. I might sell my GTX and get 2 7800 GTs. A 7800 GT SLI setup is roughly 250$ cheaper for me than the GTX SLI.
With new games pushing the cards to the limit, it might be a nice move. Going crossfire will cost me a mainboard also, it might be better to save this money and help it finance the second 7800.
Zstream
Diamond Member
Until you post a screenie I do not belive you, I have 2 x1800Xl's and experience nothing of what you have. I have posted numerous screenshots and video's on several forums and I get no shimmering or any other effect at all. The IQ also beats my GTX and x850pro.
Once again post a screenie or video and post your driver setup.
Once again post a screenie or video and post your driver setup.
BlingBlingArsch
Golden Member
and u pls post links to ur own threads, id like to read them too.
I think this is the 3rd time someone has to tell you this:
YOU CAN'T SEE SHIMMERING WITH A SCREENSHOT.
AND PLEASE READ WHAT I WROTE. I POSTED THE DRIVER SETUP ABOVE. All other things were left at default settings.
If you you don't believe me, that's fine.
If you don't see shimmering on your 2 X1800XL, that's good for you.
If you don't belive me, don't waste your time reading my thread. This post is about my experience, it is indeed subjective.
I had a hell of week with family sickness (wife+kids with flu, fever, vomits, etc). I spent the few hours I had free running the games and writing my thoughts and experience on this thread. This is not a Court of Justice, I don't need to produce forensic evidence. And I will not waste my time anymore.
The card was returned this morning. If you feel some clarification is needed, please run your own tests, start your thread and post your screenshots.
I would love to be the guy to come here and say the 7800 sucks and the X1800 wins, but that is not the case. Both are great products and it is up to everyone pick the one you like more.
My intention was to check myself if the X1800 would be worth dumping my 7800 - because I hate shimmering.
Unfortunately, the X1800 has it also - causing me to lose my purchasing argument.
This is my final answer to you. I will not reply to you anymore. Take it or leave...
CPlusPlusGeek
Banned
Why didnt u use 81.85 drivers? 78.03 are old.
Zstream
Diamond Member
Yet once again you refuse to post screenshots of anything, refuse to take a video of the shimmering and host it, refuse to pose a screenshot of your driver setup. I think if you want to make a review you should have to do that and not use subjective arguments as a review. My post are on the futuremark forum, do a search for yourself and you can find it.
Im sorry but your review gets a big thumbs down!
BlingBlingArsch
Golden Member
thumbs down for not providing me with direct links to ur own oh so much better reviews..
ArchAngel777
Diamond Member
New user... Signed up just a few days ago. 16 posts... I smell a troll, one that already got banned and is coming back. Regardless, whether or not you believe him, you have been fairly poor when it comes to manners in this forum. Don't expect others to side with you on anything.
Zstream
Diamond Member
The point is I do not belive him and several others do not. It is like saying I saw a ghost and you have no proof, do I belive you? of course not. Will others believe you? No only those that hate ATI. Sorry but put up or dont post reviews, and to BlingBling I am at work so I cannot view my post. Go to www.futuremark.com and do a search for Zstream
Do I want you to be on my side? I dont care but to post information but can NEVER back it up seems pretty bad. I thought the quality of post at this forum were getting better but as I can tell have not.
I thought the same. But 2 things came to my mind:
1) In the Release Notes 81.85 there is no comments about the shimmering;
2) I tried the 81.85 and had the impression that shimmering was bad like the 77.77 (before the 78.03).
When I removed the X1800XL from the system this morning and installed the GTX back, I used the 81.85 again. I did a quick check on WoW and it was definitely worse.
I decided to stick with the 78.03, as it is working for me now.
Did any of you experienced something similar?
I actually made somescreenshots to paint and mark where someone could go into the game and check the same things I saw.
I have yet to check if my ISP provide any hosting space. In case that's not possible, does someone know a website that hosts things like this for free?
Is it something that Yahoo, Google or other websites have?
A friend told me to create a Yahoo group and store the files there, but that would require people here registering in the group I guess. This doesn't sound pratical.
Any other ideas?
I have yet to check if my ISP provide any hosting space. In case that's not possible, does someone know a website that hosts things like this for free?
Is it something that Yahoo, Google or other websites have?
A friend told me to create a Yahoo group and store the files there, but that would require people here registering in the group I guess. This doesn't sound pratical.
Any other ideas?
fierydemise
Platinum Member
Madellga if you can would you post Screens of Transparency vs. Adaptive AA I'm an IQ junky and some comparison shots from a real user would be nice.
imported_Rampage
Senior member
I have webspace that will host the video (I think). I'll try at least if someone has a video they need hosted, can't be anything large (>20MB)
Zstream
Diamond Member
I can host anything under 3gb if it is higher then that it requires to much time to upload. If you want send email to zstream@sbcglobal.net
Madellga, thanks again. If you don't take up one of the offers here, try ImageShack. I don't think it requires registration.
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