WtF? WHAT? WTF? Oklahoma Legislators and the Minimum Wage

[Matt1970]

Do you understand that we've tried all your ideas and they have all failed miserably?

So raising minimum wage is a new idea? Maybe this time it won't cause inflation and will keep people out of poverty?

 

[QuantumPion]

LOL @ Rethuglican "no Big Government" arguments,... you guys sure drop that pretty quickly when it comes to exploiting the workers, huh?

Government mandating what wages workers must be paid is a conservative/libertarian policy now because it is a city government implementing it instead of the federal government? You people have the most moronic ideas I've ever read.

 

[QuantumPion]

What answers do you want? Do I think all conservatives are cartoon villains? I suppose, if you count mindless minions in that category. Don't worry, I don't blame all of you for being stupid and easily manipulated. I know it isn't your fault. Feel better now?

Thank you. Now that you have confirmed that you honestly believe conservatives are evil cartoon villains that want people to be poor and miserable, I can safely put you on my ignore list as a troll and don't have to bother with your nonsense any further.

 

[fskimospy]

You and other progressives have already used the federal government to trump the ability of state and local governments to set their own lower limit on minimum wage, so you really can't complain too much if a state turns around and sets an upper limit you don't agree with.

Of course I can, I think it's both bad policy and bad economics. What isn't to understand here? I am simply for policies I think are good, I don't care at what level they are enacted.

Conservatives claim they do care: that local governance is superior. This is a direct attack on local governance.

 

[fskimospy]

lol ok let me dumb it down for you. Just because conservatives want government to be local does not mean we have to agree with and support everything local governments do. Just like just because you are a socialist doesn't mean you agree with and support everything Hitler did. Got it?

This isn't disagreeing with a particular minimum wage or a particular policy, this is a blanket revocation of a major portion of economic autonomy for regions.

Of course you don't have to agree with everything local governments do. Just because you're a fascist doesn't mean you agree with and support everything Hitler did. Got it? (isn't that a stupid thing to say?)

 

[dank69]

Thank you. Now that you have confirmed that you honestly believe conservatives are evil cartoon villains that want people to be poor and miserable, I can safely put you on my ignore list as a troll and don't have to bother with your nonsense any further.

Ignore lists are for weak-minded individuals so I'm not surprised you need to use it.

 

[QuantumPion]

edit - sigh nevermind, just realized I've been feeding a troll all long.

 

[momeNt]

Damn it feels good to never be wrong!

Government fucking up again.

 

[fskimospy]

Do you really not understand the distinction between preferring local governments in general and supporting specific policies in particular? By your reasoning, must conservatives be in favor of any policy a local government comes up with? Including rent control, gun bans, etc?

Do you really not understand this? Of course you don't have to be in favor of all rent control or gun bans, but saying that local governments were barred from enacting any rent or gun regulations would be a pretty serious breach of local government autonomy.

 

[Jhhnn]

Second of all, for a liberal you sure are a bigoted racist. Everyone knows that minimum wage laws hurt minority employment the most. Why do you hate black people and immigrants so much?

Assumes facts not in evidence- it's a leap of faith.

 

[momeNt]

Do you really not understand this? Of course you don't have to be in favor of all rent control or gun bans, but saying that local governments were barred from enacting any rent or gun regulations would be a pretty serious breach of local government autonomy.

Considering liberal states do this already by enforcing their liberal agenda at the state level, this really isn't any different. If New York has a gun ban, Buffalo cannot have local laws that allow whatever the New York law bans.

If a city government wanted to lower the minimum wage below the state level, would you be in favor of allowing them to do so?

 

[fskimospy]

Considering liberal states do this already by enforcing their liberal agenda at the state level, this really isn't any different. If New York has a gun ban, Buffalo cannot have local laws that allow whatever the New York law bans.

If a city government wanted to lower the minimum wage below the state level, would you be in favor of allowing them to do so?

Of course not. THEN AGAIN I DON'T ASCRIBE TO THE DOCTRINE THAT EMPHASIZES LOCAL CONTROL.

What is the confusion here? I am saying that this action by an (ostensibly) conservative government is acting against conservative ideals. You guys then keep asking me why liberals can do things like that and stay consistent. My answer is "because they aren't conservatives".

 

[glenn1]

Do you really not understand this? Of course you don't have to be in favor of all rent control or gun bans, but saying that local governments were barred from enacting any rent or gun regulations would be a pretty serious breach of local government autonomy.

You should really stop raising this issue since you've already stated that local autonomy is a flag of convenience that you only support when beneficial to get your favored policies implemented. You support local governments when they do something you like; want the feds or state to overrule them when they do something you don't.

 

[Jhhnn]

Just like just because you are a socialist doesn't mean you agree with and support everything Hitler did. Got it?

Hitler was not a socialist, but rather an extreme right wing authoritarian, a militarist.

He just put on socialist trappings to acquire power, much as our own authoritarians don the trappings of Libertarianism.

 

[glenn1]

Of course not. THEN AGAIN I DON'T ASCRIBE TO THE DOCTRINE THAT EMPHASIZES LOCAL CONTROL.

What is the confusion here? I am saying that this action by an (ostensibly) conservative government is acting against conservative ideals. You guys then keep asking me why liberals can do things like that and stay consistent. My answer is "because they aren't conservatives".

Oh, so you have a truly sincere complaint that conservatives aren't staying true to principles. How cute. And here I thought you were just being politically opportunistic.

 

[Oldgamer]

Wages are so low in some US states that European companies are sending manufacturing to the US to exploit the US labor force. In Sweden I can make $16 an hour working at McDonalds. In the US they can get people to build cars for $7 per hour.

Didn't Sweden just pass legislation recently to increase their minimum wage to something like 22.00 dollars? Damn, can't remember if it was them or some other country.

Yea, I think it is silly what was done there in the OP. It doesn't seem that it would stand a legal challenge. The whole nonsense about losing jobs to a slight wage increase has already been proven wrong by many economists. All this bill does is hurt their economy in that state. But you can't reason with some of these idiots you really can't. Minnesota just raised their minimum wage to 10.10 and 5-6 other states have to.

 

[fskimospy]

Oh, so you have a truly sincere complaint that conservatives aren't staying true to principles. How cute. And here I thought you were just being politically opportunistic.

As I said in my first post, they seem to be ok with local government so long as it is doing what they want. I find that silly.

 

[glenn1]

As I said in my first post, they seem to be ok with local government so long as it is doing what they want. I find that silly.

You find silly what you just said is your very position a few posts back? Why, because you expect intellectual consistency from them that you don't demand of yourself?

 

[Jaskalas]

Two words for anyone who confuses the Republican Party with small government.

President Bush.

Was he not lesson enough for everyone? Republicans claim Libertarian values to steal our votes. Then once in power they screw us every chance they get.

 

[fskimospy]

You find silly what you just said is your very position a few posts back? Why, because you expect intellectual consistency from them that you don't demand of yourself?

What on earth are you talking about? You quoted my post, did you not understand it?

 

[Oldgamer]

Here are a few links to some very recent economists reports talking about how increasing min wage actually helps the economy and doesn't really hurt businesses the way some in politics have tried to lead people to believe.

The Economist article here

Apparently we are below international standards on wages in this country.

Washington Post economist Arin Dube on raising minimum wage good thing.

Economic Policy Institute on why raising pay/wages helps economy and businesses

 

[Genx87]

As I said in my first post, they seem to be ok with local government so long as it is doing what they want. I find that silly.

That whole states rights thing was a poorly framed idea. Like many from conservative talk show hosts and the Republican party itself. They pigeonholed themselves into stupidity with that cause.

Being on a more local level has some benefits but also some drawbacks. What the conservatives should had done was champion more limited govt. But, I suspect doing that would had exposed their own unwillingness to cut pork at the federal level. So they yell about states rights. Well a state or local law can be just as terrible and oppressive as a federal law.

 

[fskimospy]

That whole states rights thing was a poorly framed idea. Like many from conservative talk show hosts and the Republican party itself. They pigeonholed themselves into stupidity with that cause.

Being on a more local level has some benefits but also some drawbacks. What the conservatives should had done was champion more limited govt. But, I suspect doing that would had exposed their own unwillingness to cut pork at the federal level. So they yell about states rights. Well a state or local law can be just as terrible and oppressive as a federal law.

In many cases state and local laws are more oppressive than federal laws, simply because they are much more likely to impact your day to day life. That's why it's so funny/sad that people care so much more about federal elections when they should be paying attention to their local ones. Not only does the outcome probably affect you more, but you have a vastly greater chance (albeit still a very small one) to influence the outcome.

There really isn't much more to say about this topic from my perspective, I just found it funny that the party of local control is stripping away the rights of localities because they are worried they will use it in a way the state doesn't like.

 

[Jhhnn]

Ignore lists are for weak-minded individuals so I'm not surprised you need to use it.

Rimshot! Bada-boom!

 

[Incorruptible]

Thanks for that useless and incorrect data point.

To begin, a Swedish Mcdonald Value meal is around $10 US. We pay around $6. So while our minimum wage is lower, the buying power is relatively the same.

Next, the entry-level jobs at the big 3 are double what you are quoting. The starting range at Ford is at $14 an hour, and after 10 years your wages double.

So please, don't be an ass. Mcpwned already throws around enough bad data.

Good job. He posts nothing but BS and needed to be called out.

Government has no right to dictate wages. It should be between the employer and employee and government should stay out. Many of the people who want the minimum wage raised don't even own a business.