WTF Now CHINA WANTS WAR!!!!

[Witling]

Kage, my reference to March was to the saying "March comes in like a lamb and goes out like a lion." or "March comes in like a lion and goes out like a lamb." Baaaaaa. You don't have to wait until March for an apology, you get your apology now -- for what it's worth.

Executive Summary: Yes, I did incorrectly attribute material to Kage that was not only not his, but which he opposed. Kage, I apologize for my mistake -- and you were right. I did ignore a previous post in which you tried to tell me that I was making incorrect attributions, thus adding insult to your injury. Long threads are a shortcoming of mine. I don't go back as far and thoroughly as I should.

The Pissing Contest: Kage, I have an exhaustive analysis of this problem as a Word document. No one but you would possibly be interested in it and I doubt that you would be interested in it. Two things though, both concerning quotes. I'd recommend an attribution and an actual cut and paste for a complicated quote structure rather than relying on Anandtech's quote function. I found your post of 11/20 at 1:37 p.m. confusing. Now, I admit that confusion is my problem, not yours. But your post is a series of unattributed quotes. At least four separate quotes interspersed with what by what may, or may not be your comments or the quotes of others quoting material. Are the quotes from the same thread? From the same person? I don't know by reading your posts. Maybe this is par for the course in this board but I find it confusing. Second, your entire post for 11/21, 7:45 a.m., lock, stock and barrel (but skipping the signature) is:

Post starts

?"yes, that's because israel has one of world best army.
and several larger Arab countries is all talk.
so far only arab county that put their words in action when fighting with enemy is parkistan"

*waits patiently for Whitling to criticize more views on history*

Post Ends

No attribution, no nothing. Gee, you might see how I got confused here. I thought you said the stuff in your post was your stuff.

To end my part of the pissing contest, Kage, you're right. But think a little about your use of quotes. Some of us have trouble keeping up. I do acknowledge that the problem of keeping up is mine, not yours. If the board in general finds your posts worth responding too, maybe I have a problem I need to deal with. Anybody know of a newsgroup 12 step program?

 

[kage69]

See, I knew it was just a misunderstanding of sorts on both of our parts. And yes I'm a dumbass for not realizing the lamb/lion thing *slaps head*
Part of this problem can be explained by this forums quote system I believe. Many times (in this thread as well) I've tried to enter a quote only to have a small tidbit of it actually displayed - I guess I lost patience with it, hence the haphazard methods - and for that I apologize.

Good on ya Whitling, no harm, no foul.

 

[Witling]

Thank god my apology is burried so deep no one will see it.

But, on a more serious note. I think that most of the people on this board are of good faith -- regardless of which side they're on. I value the board and I value your input. OK, enought crying and apolgizing. Thank god no one will . . . .

 

[CanOWorms]

are you guys married to each other or something?

 

[Witling]

No, but even before you wrote, Can, I thought "If this goes any further, we're going to have to get married."

Not many people distort facts on this board. Some are ignorant. Some are wrong. HeySus, when you're wrong, just admit it. Of course, it was Kage's fault that I was wrong. But, in the final analysis, I was wrong.

Boy, what particularly bothered me was missing his previous "Hey Butthead" message, in which he tried to alert me (he was a little more indirect) (once again, his fault, not mine)).

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
are you guys married to each other or something?

Only in Mass

Yes, it was a bit stirring to see them come to terms instead of STFU's

 

[Witling]

I've probably got the "FU" part of "STFU," but there a lot of abbreviations I don't understand. This is one. Hey, people, remember, I wasn't born yesterday, I was born last century. BTW In the last century I would have said "Hey, guys . . ."

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: Whitling
I've probably got the "FU" part of "STFU," but there a lot of abbreviations I don't understand. This is one. Hey, people, remember, I wasn't born yesterday, I was born last century. BTW In the last century I would have said "Hey, guys . . ."

I don't think you have the FU. The U is Up and the ST is Shut The.

 

[Witling]

Miguel 1 - Whitling 0

 

[kage69]

..actually we've agreed on Hawaii. Just as legal, and let's face it, way prettier.


lol

 

[Witling]

Alchemize (I hope) WTF do you mean "come to terms instead of STFU's." I just had to crawl on my belly like a reptile because Kage was right and I was wrong. That brings a whole new meaning to "come to terms." We came to terms like Custer came to terms with the Indians at the Little Bighorn.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: kitkit201

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
besides, we have fought them before and won.

When did China ever come fought with the US? You it got it wrong man..

hehe i forgot about this thread.



The Korean War

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: Czar

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK
china does have a HUGE army, but they have to get them over here first, and when it comes to the war in the air and sea, china stands no chance.

besides, we have fought them before and won.

dont know if you have been following the news lately but the thing is China wants Taiwan back, US wants to back up Taiwan while mantaining positive relations with china so in all this hoppla I dont see anything relating to china invading the US

i am sorry, i thought by the title of the thread and it's opening posts the "war" being refered to and discussed was a sino-american war over taiwan.

 

[LongCoolMother]

this is definately the end. it all lies in taiwan's hands now. whether they want to destroy the world or no. they declare independence, china goes to war. overruns and overwhelms taiwan. US (supposedly) jumps in to retaliate. full scale war breaks out. NK falls in, SK goes. when all the chaos couldnt seem to get worse, on comes the nukes. its over.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
this is definately the end. it all lies in taiwan's hands now. whether they want to destroy the world or no. they declare independence, china goes to war. overruns and overwhelms taiwan. US (supposedly) jumps in to retaliate. full scale war breaks out. NK falls in, SK goes. when all the chaos couldnt seem to get worse, on comes the nukes. its over.

it probobly will not play out that simply, mainly china wants the high tech facilities in taiwan, nuking would be extremely counterproductive for either side.

also there are many miles of water china has to cross to get to taiwan. the R.O.C. and the U.S. are not simply going to let them hop in thier boats and come on over. that involves masing many troops, and we have a great number of B-1b, B-52 and B-2 bombers that can annihilate them before they even get across, not to mention submarines, and missile destroyers that are in the area.

 

[chuckieland]

"kage69
1.you really been brian wash by the extreme independist
so far no nation in the world know there is a nation call TAIWAN
Even Taiwanese people call themself ROC which stand for Republic of China
only about 20-30% extreme independist think there is a nation call Taiwan.
china national name: People republic of China
taiwan national name: Republic of China
they all Call themself China, that is why USA has a 1 China policy. and Taiwan is part of China.
the way i look at it
People Republic of China claim to have Taiwan island
Taiwan (republic of China) used to claim to have entire mainland include mogolia.
2.if my history are correct, Japan take Taiwan from China before WW2, then after WW2 Japan return Taiwan to China. where is this Nation of Taiwan come from?
3. Check USA history Civilwar. it's not just about Free african american, it's also about some states wanting to seperate from USA. which lead to War "


1. Please, pardon my brian being washed. No one is debating the pissing contest China and Taiwan have been involved in the last 50 odd years over who is the legitimate goverment of China. The subsequent bickering over labels and semantics might be a concern for you, but the fact is Taiwan has been on it's own for almost 60 years and doesn't consider itself under Communist rule. Let me guess, you probebly believe North Korea is a Democracy, for the People, and a Republic, right? Maybe too much State run media has affected YOUR brian.

Taiwan has been on it's own for almost 60 years, that is because the civil war never end.
when there is civil war, that mean it's used to be one.
Taiwan at best consider to be under military seperation.
if you insist on two nation term, then it's PROC and ROC. There never is republic of Taiwan, which is not even recongize by people in Taiwan. (only about 20-30% seperatist like Kage69 that think differently then everyone else)



2. Probably around the same time the Taiwanese created their own functioning government, laws, school systems, economy, military, etc. A better question would be, if a country has all of these attributes that were self-imposed, and continued to operate independently for over half a century, why would that not be considered a seperate nation? They appear to be in all but name, and even then only under the threat of an overwhelming attack.

WRONG, Mislead information
Remember it's Republic of China that built taiwan.
last time i check. ROC write the Laws, provide school systems, make the strong Economy.
the Military is belone to Republic of China. even Taiwan's airline is call CHINA AIRLINE.
of course Taiwanese play a big part in this, because Republic of China only has Taiwan left.
so that mean anybody with ROC passport can be call themself Chinese or Taiwanese at their choice.
but don't deny the credit for ROC government. seperatist has not done anything but screwup the economy, killing taiwan's creditibility....etc (current president is from seperatist party)
maybe thing would be better, if seperatist government focus on economic, and what's best for the people. then their silly little believe.




3. I've already stated how your US analogy doesn't apply, perhaps if you knew anything about the US Civil War you'd realize that. Just because you want to compare apples to oranges, it doesn't mean the rest of us have to.[/quote]

let me check, How did you stated us analogy doesn't apply?
one words. QUOTE KAGE69: "Wrong"
why don't you explain with more then 1 words, enlighten us

 

[SONYFX]

China 'will wait for Taiwan polls before making move'
TAIPEI - President Chen Shui-bian's rhetoric about independence for Taiwan has escalated tensions with China but analysts say Beijing is unlikely to opt for a military response until at least after the island's presidential election in March.

China last week reiterated its threats of war against Taiwan, which it considers part of its territory, saying Mr Chen and his ruling Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) were steering the island towards independence.

Advertisement

Mr Chen has been pushing for the right of the island to hold its own referendums on various issues and has pledged to adopt a new Constitution in 2008, through public vote, if he wins re-election to a second four-year term.

'Chen is pushing Beijing to the limit of its tolerance, assuming Washington supports what he calls his democratisation efforts,' said political science professor Hu Fo of the National Taiwan University.

'It is a campaign strategy aimed to win votes, but at the expense of domestic and cross-strait stability,' he said.

Prof Hu expected cross-strait tensions to intensify after the main opposition Kuomintang (KMT), which has promoted an eventual reunification of Taiwan with China, has begun to echo the DPP in calling for a law allowing people to vote on any controversial issues, including reunification or independence.

'No one can deprive the people's right to hold referendums to decide their destiny. But it does not mean we support independence,' KMT chairman Lien Chan said last week.

Mr Lien's KMT, which is seen as less confrontational towards Beijing than the DPP, also proposed amending the Constitution instead of creating a new one.

Prof Hu said: 'Chaos in local politics and greater confrontation with the mainland are unavoidable as the presidential election draws closer.

'But I think Beijing, despite its war threats, would wait to see the poll results to make its next moves.'

Prof Chen Yuchen of American and mainland studies at Chinese Culture University agreed.

'China will observe the election process and wait for the decision of the Taiwanese people.

'If the people choose the status quo... cross-strait stability will be maintained. If the people choose independence, it is the beginning of real conflicts,' the professor said. -- AFP

 

[kage69]

Chuckie, no, YOU enlighten us. You seem to believe the current situation with Taiwan can somehow be compared with the US Civil War. Please, could you let us all know which history books you've been consulting that have led you to believe this?


A couple reasons why I said your analogy is simply worng:


-Taiwan has not attacked the mainland in a drive for independence.

-Taiwan is not a member of a Confederacy, representing an economic faction unhappy with 'Union' price gouging over raw materials.

-The Confederacy did not exist for six decades and enjoy prosperous trade with the Union and the rest of the world, practically being a seperate country in all but name.

-The role played by human rights in the Taiwan situation is directly opposite than that of the role it played in the Civil War (China, with it's horrible record on human rights, is analogous to the South and it's endorsement of slavery).

-China has not allowed Taiwan a say in it's future the way the US did with Puerto Rico.


I'm sure I could think of more, these are just the ones readily apparent.

 

[chuckieland]

Originally posted by: kage69
Chuckie, no, YOU enlighten us. You seem to believe the current situation with Taiwan can somehow be compared with the US Civil War. Please, could you let us all know which history books you've been consulting that have led you to believe this?


A couple reasons why I said your analogy is simply worng:


-Taiwan has not attacked the mainland in a drive for independence.

-Taiwan is not a member of a Confederacy, representing an economic faction unhappy with 'Union' price gouging over raw materials.

-The Confederacy did not exist for six decades and enjoy prosperous trade with the Union and the rest of the world, practically being a seperate country in all but name.

-The role played by human rights in the Taiwan situation is directly opposite than that of the role it played in the Civil War (China, with it's horrible record on human rights, is analogous to the South and it's endorsement of slavery).

-China has not allowed Taiwan a say in it's future the way the US did with Puerto Rico.


I'm sure I could think of more, these are just the ones readily apparent.

Kage69
i'm waiting for your rebutt statement for 1,2
as for number 3. you can stop the bs.
the only difference between US civil war and China Civil War, is Chinese Civil war never ended.
half of the States want to seperate from USA to form it's own nation, with majority of people that support them.
USA say no, you can't seperate, so they go to war
and USA won the war, so USA stay as one.

Everybody knows that the situation with China and Taiwan is an unfinish civil war.
now, both side can have a choice, to talk instead of continue the civil war.
i personally favorite them to stay the at where their are right now.
it's people like Kage69 with lies that make the situation worse.
Kage69, i see you have nothing to say about 1,2 (where i correct your lies)
i'm from Taiwan too, I don't favorite rejoin, but i hate seperatist even more.
because all their believe is base on lies. i consider them sissy too. They don't even have guts to tell the truth. but try to twisting history like Kage 69 to brainwash the uneducated.
answer this
Why is Abien's son doesn't have to go to military trainning like every other young male in Taiwan???
Answer: seperatists are sissy, and we all know that if war start by the seperatist, seperatists will be the first ones to flee out of Taiwan.
all other ROC president's son go to military trainning like every taiwanese male, no special treatment there.
why is the seperatist president's son be so Special????

 

[kage69]

In your first post to this thread, you state - and I quote:

USA may have the freedom, but it would never allow one of it's state(s) to seperate from mother USA too, and i would series image usa us military action too.( and they did, check your history book) in this issue
China is no different then USA

Puerto Rico proves you wrong, yet you continue to ignore it. Less time arguing history you don't know about, and more time learning English (since you insist on posting in an English forum) if you please.

1.you really been brian wash by the extreme independist
so far no nation in the world know there is a nation call TAIWAN
Even Taiwanese people call themself ROC which stand for Republic of China
only about 20-30% extreme independist think there is a nation call Taiwan.
china national name: People republic of China
taiwan national name: Republic of China
they all Call themself China, that is why USA has a 1 China policy. and Taiwan is part of China.
the way i look at it
People Republic of China claim to have Taiwan island
Taiwan (republic of China) used to claim to have entire mainland include mogolia.

Sorry, I try to make it a habit in not responding to null content. Since you seem to require me to address it anyway, fine. I'm aware Taiwan is not officially recognized - this is not being contested, therefore irrelevent. I'm aware of the full names of both parties involved - this is irrelevent. We are all aware that both parties contest being the rightful ruling party of 'China' - this is irrelevent. The way you view the ownership claims of both parties is purely personal conjecture and while fine and dandy, is not a question. Your desire for me to 'answer' a statement, is, you guessed it! - irrelevent.

2.if my history are correct, Japan take Taiwan from China before WW2, then after WW2 Japan return Taiwan to China. where is this Nation of Taiwan come from?

Does your goverment answer to Beijing? Is your military a branch of the PRC military? Are Taiwan's tax revenues sent to Beijing? Do the laws of the PRC apply to residents of Taiwan? Does Beijing decide on the curriculum taught in Taiwanese schools? You'll just have to excuse me if I don't place as much importance on the formality of a founding as you do. I've already stated Taiwan was not a nation in name, but in substance it certainly appears to be. It operates on it's own, and so far the war part of this civil war has consisted of decades of saber-rattling and not much else (unless you want to count all the economic cooperation - oddly enough quite similar to that enjoyed by full fledged sovereign neighbors, go figure).

3. Check USA history Civilwar. it's not just about Free african american, it's also about some states wanting to seperate from USA. which lead to War "

as for number 3. you can stop the bs.the only difference between US civil war and China Civil War, is Chinese Civil war never ended. half of the States want to seperate from USA to form it's own nation, with majority of people that support them.
USA say no, you can't seperate, so they go to war and USA won the war, so USA stay as one

First of all, I never implied anywhere that slavery was the cause of the Civil War, but since we're here it shows what you know about the American Civil War: very little. It's nice to know you see no difference between the bloodiest war in American history and decades of passive Chinese threats. You sir, are a disrespectful and ignorant moron. Congratulations.

it's people like Kage69 with lies that make the situation worse.

So far you're the one obsessed with either irrelevent material or blatant disinformation, yet somehow I'm the one making something worse? Pray tell, what exactly am I making worse? You make it seem like I'm handing out propaganda pamphlets on the streets of Taipei...

answer this Why is Abien's son doesn't have to go to military trainning like every other young male in Taiwan???
Answer: seperatists are sissy, and we all know that if war start by the seperatist, seperatists will be the first ones to flee out of Taiwan. all other ROC president's son go to military trainning like every taiwanese male, no special treatment there.
why is the seperatist president's son be so Special????

This has nothing to do with the subject at hand, but since it's quite obvious (and funny) that you have an axe to grind with the Seperatists (in particular the current president) I'll indulge you. I believe the term 'airs of aristocracy' fits here. A ruling official using his or her position to shelter, or in many cases advance, the standing of family members is nothing exclusive to Taiwan, I can assure you. Bush joined the Air National Guard to keep his sorry ass out of Viet Nam. Al Gore, who's father was a Senator as I recall, was able to land a cushy position as a reporter which kept him out of the trenches, and he even had full-time bodyguards while in active duty. These are just examples, but in no way are the norm for the sons of leaders. It's unfortunate you hold that much rancor for your fellow countrymen - I'd like to think the vast majority would stand up to an attack by China as no one in their right mind would want to subject themselves to the rule of Beijing (sorry, but they're oppressive assh0les). As you yourself noted, all the previous Presidential sons fulfilled their military obligations...



We both might have different views on whether or not Taiwan should declare independence, or who is the rightful 'owner' of Taiwan, but you can't compare this ongoing crisis with the American Civil War, I'm sorry, it just doesn't fit no matter how much you try to generalize it. The economic, military, and social factors leading to both disputes are too dissimilar for any of your ill-informed comparisons to work. So please, break out those textbooks you mentioned earlier, you need them. I'm not so sure I'll be responding to anymore of your babble though - trying to quote your painfully disjointed and haphazard posts has already contributed to a misunderstanding with Whitling which I regret. He and I might not agree all the time, but at least I can decipher what he types.

 

[chuckieland]

Originally posted by: kage69
In your first post to this thread, you state - and I quote:

USA may have the freedom, but it would never allow one of it's state(s) to seperate from mother USA too, and i would series image usa us military action too.( and they did, check your history book) in this issue
China is no different then USA

Puerto Rico proves you wrong, yet you continue to ignore it. Less time arguing history you don't know about, and more time learning English (since you insist on posting in an English forum) if you please.

1.you really been brian wash by the extreme independist
so far no nation in the world know there is a nation call TAIWAN
Even Taiwanese people call themself ROC which stand for Republic of China
only about 20-30% extreme independist think there is a nation call Taiwan.
china national name: People republic of China
taiwan national name: Republic of China
they all Call themself China, that is why USA has a 1 China policy. and Taiwan is part of China.
the way i look at it
People Republic of China claim to have Taiwan island
Taiwan (republic of China) used to claim to have entire mainland include mogolia.

Sorry, I try to make it a habit in not responding to null content. Since you seem to require me to address it anyway, fine. I'm aware Taiwan is not officially recognized - this is not being contested, therefore irrelevent. I'm aware of the full names of both parties involved - this is irrelevent. We are all aware that both parties contest being the rightful ruling party of 'China' - this is irrelevent. The way you view the ownership claims of both parties is purely personal conjecture and while fine and dandy, is not a question. Your desire for me to 'answer' a statement, is, you guessed it! - irrelevent.

2.if my history are correct, Japan take Taiwan from China before WW2, then after WW2 Japan return Taiwan to China. where is this Nation of Taiwan come from?

Does your goverment answer to Beijing? Is your military a branch of the PRC military? Are Taiwan's tax revenues sent to Beijing? Do the laws of the PRC apply to residents of Taiwan? Does Beijing decide on the curriculum taught in Taiwanese schools? You'll just have to excuse me if I don't place as much importance on the formality of a founding as you do. I've already stated Taiwan was not a nation in name, but in substance it certainly appears to be. It operates on it's own, and so far the war part of this civil war has consisted of decades of saber-rattling and not much else (unless you want to count all the economic cooperation - oddly enough quite similar to that enjoyed by full fledged sovereign neighbors, go figure).

3. Check USA history Civilwar. it's not just about Free african american, it's also about some states wanting to seperate from USA. which lead to War "

as for number 3. you can stop the bs.the only difference between US civil war and China Civil War, is Chinese Civil war never ended. half of the States want to seperate from USA to form it's own nation, with majority of people that support them.
USA say no, you can't seperate, so they go to war and USA won the war, so USA stay as one

First of all, I never implied anywhere that slavery was the cause of the Civil War, but since we're here it shows what you know about the American Civil War: very little. It's nice to know you see no difference between the bloodiest war in American history and decades of passive Chinese threats. You sir, are a disrespectful and ignorant moron. Congratulations.

it's people like Kage69 with lies that make the situation worse.

So far you're the one obsessed with either irrelevent material or blatant disinformation, yet somehow I'm the one making something worse? Pray tell, what exactly am I making worse? You make it seem like I'm handing out propaganda pamphlets on the streets of Taipei...

answer this Why is Abien's son doesn't have to go to military trainning like every other young male in Taiwan???
Answer: seperatists are sissy, and we all know that if war start by the seperatist, seperatists will be the first ones to flee out of Taiwan. all other ROC president's son go to military trainning like every taiwanese male, no special treatment there.
why is the seperatist president's son be so Special????

This has nothing to do with the subject at hand, but since it's quite obvious (and funny) that you have an axe to grind with the Seperatists (in particular the current president) I'll indulge you. I believe the term 'airs of aristocracy' fits here. A ruling official using his or her position to shelter, or in many cases advance, the standing of family members is nothing exclusive to Taiwan, I can assure you. Bush joined the Air National Guard to keep his sorry ass out of Viet Nam. Al Gore, who's father was a Senator as I recall, was able to land a cushy position as a reporter which kept him out of the trenches, and he even had full-time bodyguards while in active duty. These are just examples, but in no way are the norm for the sons of leaders. It's unfortunate you hold that much rancor for your fellow countrymen - I'd like to think the vast majority would stand up to an attack by China as no one in their right mind would want to subject themselves to the rule of Beijing (sorry, but they're oppressive assh0les). As you yourself noted, all the previous Presidential sons fulfilled their military obligations...



We both might have different views on whether or not Taiwan should declare independence, or who is the rightful 'owner' of Taiwan, but you can't compare this ongoing crisis with the American Civil War, I'm sorry, it just doesn't fit no matter how much you try to generalize it. The economic, military, and social factors leading to both disputes are too dissimilar for any of your ill-informed comparisons to work. So please, break out those textbooks you mentioned earlier, you need them. I'm not so sure I'll be responding to anymore of your babble though - trying to quote your painfully disjointed and haphazard posts has already contributed to a misunderstanding with Whitling which I regret. He and I might not agree all the time, but at least I can decipher what he types.

Kage69
again, using the misleading tactic.
it's easy to say "irrelevent" on stuff you don't want to answer, or clearly point you are wrong.
i can do the same.
but one thing i'll agree with you, that our view on this is too different to come to any agreement or even agurement.
If you really aware "Taiwan is not officially recognized, and if you are all aware that both parties contest being the rightful ruling party of 'China' -Then stop talk like there is another seperate nation call taiwan. there is big difference between independant and Military Seperation.
i find you very funny, point of the fact irrelevent, then input your own personal opinion as facts.
i find conversation with you is like this:
example
Kage69: when you throw an apple up in the air, the apple will never fall down.
Chuckieland: ever heard of the laws of gravity?
Kage69: i'm aware of the laws of Gravity, but that's Irrelevent. then continue talk about how apple will never come down.

As for hit the text book on american history.
do you mind point on which text book that currently in school system that state what you say about Puerto Rico?
Puerto Rico is so irrelevents here.
Here is A FACT on american history
each star on the usa flag represent 1 state
there are 50 star on usa flag, that mean there are 50 states in the USA
DO YOU WANT ME TO NAME ALL 50 STATES
Puerto Rico is not in there. it's not even consider to be part of USA.
People from Puerto Rico don't even get to vote on the USA presidential election.

Puerto Rico is best consider to commonwealth of USA.
of course usa will let them vote on if it's want to government it self or stay within commonwealth of usa.
it's totally irrelevents on this topic
Now if it's one of the 50 states that one to seperate, there will be war like like the american civil war.

I didn't think i need to Point to Puerto Rico facts, I though i have enough facts to destroy you misleading tactic.
but you insist to use irrelevent facts to comparison with my relevent facts.
if you still go words to say, i'd prob not going to reply, because we all know the facts that "you don't know what you are talking about" when you open your mouth, you are just opening your mouth.
you talk about me less history, more english. here is chuckieland's advise for Kage69: "MORE HISTORY, AND MORE ENGLISH" seems like you can't read.

Edit: second thought
I did like to see your Reply on Puerto Rico, so i'll reply when you post on Puerto rico
but knowning you, with the misleading tactic, Puerto rico would prob be the last thing you want to touch.
so here i'm waiting for your VIEW on American history and Puerto Rico.

 

[CanOWorms]

If you don't consider Puerto Rico part of the USA then Taiwan definitely isn't part of anyone.

Also, the vote for Puerto Rico was for their own country, stay as a commonwealth, or become a state.

What's the point of arguing anyways? People that have deep opinions on Taiwan, Kashmir, etc. just don't care and will believe anything they want. It's incredibly hard when the it's hard to communicate with the other person, too.

 

[kage69]

I expect bullsh!t responses, and what do I get? Bullsh!t responses. chuckie, all you're doing is reiterating the same tired old crap, while re-emphasizing how little you know about the US. I'm sorry if trying to stay on topic irritates you, but around here we try to limit the discussion to the pertient material. If I'm being so misleading, please tell us all what exactly you find so misleading. The things I pointed out being irrelevent are indeed, quite irrelevent.

Your "apple example" is hilarious - now I really am convinced your a moron. Please illustrate an example of me presenting opinion as fact.

You saying Puerto Rico is irrelevent is proof you are in denial, as it directly applies to your statement 'in this, China is no different than the US.' Wrong moron! Did the US threaten to attack Puerto Rico when many of it's inhabitants lobbied for independence? No. This is exactly what China had promised to do if Taiwan declares independence. Therefore - YOU ARE WRONG. Just have the balls to admit it instead of making up none-sensical metaphors ok? For China to be no different than the US in this case, Beijing would have to grant Taipei the power to make the decision of joining the PRC, becoming truley independant, or keeping everything as normal.

How many stars there are on the flag has absolutely nothing to do with anything -

THE US GOVERNMENT GAVE PUERTO RICO A VOICE IN IT'S OWN FUTURE - DENY IT ALL YOU WANT, BUT BEIJING HAS NOT DONE THE SAME WITH TAIWAN.

You accusing me of misdirection is just plain comical - look at all your useless allusions and references, talk about misleading...

 

[kage69]

What's the point of arguing anyways? People that have deep opinions on Taiwan, Kashmir, etc. just don't care and will believe anything they want. It's incredibly hard when the it's hard to communicate with the other person, too.

I hold no illusions about trying to convince chuckie here on anything. From the way he speaks about independents in his homeland, he is far too much of an idealogue to bother with.
I do however take exception with his statement "the US is no different than China" - we all know that is completely false. I'm fine with arguing against someone who is clueless. All he can do is bring up issues that don't apply, aren't being contested by anyone, and work in a few hilarious analogies... he cries about misdirection, yet can give no examples *yawn*
It just makes me laugh because he really does seem to have no idea how self-defeating most of his argument is. I love it when that happens.

 

[chuckieland]

Originally posted by: kage69
I expect bullsh!t responses, and what do I get? Bullsh!t responses. chuckie, all you're doing is reiterating the same tired old crap, while re-emphasizing how little you know about the US. I'm sorry if trying to stay on topic irritates you, but around here we try to limit the discussion to the pertient material. If I'm being so misleading, please tell us all what exactly you find so misleading. The things I pointed out being irrelevent are indeed, quite irrelevent.

Your "apple example" is hilarious - now I really am convinced your a moron. Please illustrate an example of me presenting opinion as fact.

You saying Puerto Rico is irrelevent is proof you are in denial, as it directly applies to your statement 'in this, China is no different than the US.' Wrong moron! Did the US threaten to attack Puerto Rico when many of it's inhabitants lobbied for independence? No. This is exactly what China had promised to do if Taiwan declares independence. Therefore - YOU ARE WRONG. Just have the balls to admit it instead of making up none-sensical metaphors ok? For China to be no different than the US in this case, Beijing would have to grant Taipei the power to make the decision of joining the PRC, becoming truley independant, or keeping everything as normal.

How many stars there are on the flag has absolutely nothing to do with anything -

THE US GOVERNMENT GAVE PUERTO RICO A VOICE IN IT'S OWN FUTURE - DENY IT ALL YOU WANT, BUT BEIJING HAS NOT DONE THE SAME WITH TAIWAN.

You accusing me of misdirection is just plain comical - look at all your useless allusions and references, talk about misleading...

Kage69
all you states is opinion with no facts to backup
why i say puerto rico doesn't apply here
because puerto rico issue cannot be compare to taiwan
Taiwan is under Military Seperation, Puerto rico is not.(they are volunteer)
Taiwan is Part of China for thousands of years, puerto rico has been under commonwealth of USA for how long?
Poeple live in Taiwan get to vote on presidential election of Republic of China
while Citizen of Puerto Rico Can't vote on USA presidential election.
Big BIG difference
Puerto Rico ask to join the USA, Commonwealth status is just to test it. now they get to vote to see, if they want to be a states, stay at commonwealth, or go back to their original way (which is not seperation, you has to part of usa, before they can be seperate from it.)
USA really has no saying on what puerto rico decision, since it's not usa's land to begin with.
USA DID FIGHT A CIVIL WAR WHEN SERVAL OF IT'S STATES DOESN'T WANT TO BE RULE BY THE FED GOVN'T, AND TRY TO LEAVE THE USA.
it make no difference then China try to use military force to take taiwan.
if there are difference, there there should be two USA today.
puerto rico is not even a good example for the reason i state above.