WTF Now CHINA WANTS WAR!!!!

[EXman]

Why do you think of India as a threat?

well a few years back they almost started throwing nukes at each other over Kashmir

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: EXman

Why do you think of India as a threat?

well a few years back they almost started throwing nukes at each other over Kashmir

well yeah, but how is that a threat to us? It's not like they were threatening to throw nukes at us. I thought we had pretty good relations.

 

[Ferocious]

Hahahaha.

Not a damn thing Bush would do if China rolled tanks into Taiwan tomorrow.

Walmart would never give the ok.

 

[rufruf44]

Does anyone ever wonder what China will ever gain by conquering Taiwan? Even as we speaks, Taiwanese business are migrating to China due to low-cost labor and helluva easier law (bribe officials). The PRC politbiro are tyrants, but they're not stupid. Every now and then they trumpet this to their political advantage but there's nothing really to gain for them to conquer Taiwan.
And for those who thinks US will fought China to protect Taiwan, better think again. US won't go against someone that actually has the ability to inflict massive damage back without some serious justification for it, and right now, Taiwan isn't worth that much for the US government (as other has pointed out how big the difference is between the US trade with China and Taiwan). Besides, by the time the 7th fleet can reach Taiwan, Taipei probably already be over-run by the Red Army.

Now if China invades Japan.....gosh, I don't want even to think about it. Maybe by then the Russian bear can be enlisted for assistance.

 

[fwtong]

Bring on China. The war in Iraq has proved that we can easily conquen other nations in only a few days times without help from other nations. Might makes right.

 

[0roo0roo]

waiting for un resolutions against china


*deafening silence*


and Free Tibet!



*deafening silence*

 

[PainTrain]

Originally posted by: fwtong
Bring on China. The war in Iraq has proved that we can easily conquen other nations in only a few days times without help from other nations. Might makes right.

lol

 

[P.O.W.]

Originally posted by: Whitling
The Canadian Prime Minister, Cretian, (spelling) spoke of exactly this case before we invaded Iraq. Hey, China feels "threatened" by Taiwan. Feels that Taiwan might be developing weapons (and they certainly have the capability). Bye Bye Taiwan. Preemptive attack so China can feel safe. It has a precedent. They'll just set up a democratic government there and then leave in about 80 years.

Your comparison would have made sense had Taiwain invaded Honk Kong, been defeated, and placed under sanctions and warned not to develop those weapons.

 

[ManSnake]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: EXman
Actually India and Pakistan and North korea are just as big of threats.

But Tawian does buy a helluva lot of Destroyers subs and other military hardware from us.

man I want to keep tawainese making those great Mobo's for my hardware addiction.

Why do you think of India as a threat? I thought we were growing allies with them. Even Pakistan isn't really a threat... except if they become unstable and the current leader gets replaced by a threat.

India sided with USSR while Pakistan sided with US during the cold war. India is not to be trusted!

 

[kage69]

Not a damn thing Bush would do if China rolled tanks into Taiwan tomorrow.

You are aware the 100 mile wide expanse of water that separates Taiwan from the mainland, right? China has vast numbers of ground forces, but their logistics capability is a joke. I'm sure the Taiwanese Navy would have a problem with the attempt as well.

 

[Miramonti]

We are fools to use our military to stop China from taking control of part of China.

 

[kage69]

Like it or not, Taiwan has become it's own entity quite distinct from that of the mainland. Can you blame them for not wanting to be ruled by such an oppressive regime? I can't. Taiwanese who have a problem with their goverment are free to leave.
Believe it or not, the Dems, Reps, and Indie's all agree that the US would not take military action to interfere.

We are fools to use our military to stop China from taking control of part of China.[/

That hasn't happened. But I'll agree that you're a fool. What we've done so far is empower a people to protect themselves. No different than in Israel, Saudi Arabia, or any other allies who have neighbors to worry about.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: kage69
Like it or not, Taiwan has become it's own entity quite distinct from that of the mainland. Can you blame them for not wanting to be ruled by such an oppressive regime? I can't. Taiwanese who have a problem with their goverment are free to leave.
Believe it or not, the Dems, Reps, and Indie's all agree that the US would not take military action to interfere.

It definately wouldn't be worth it.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: Ultra Quiet
We will ignore China's actions wrt Taiwan in exchange for their influence in North Korea.

I'd have to say I agree, we might condemn them for attacking, but we wouldn't go to war over it esp if they aided in NK.

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: kaizersose

Originally posted by: Whitling
The Canadian Prime Minister, Cretian, (spelling) spoke of exactly this case before we invaded Iraq. Hey, China feels "threatened" by Taiwan. Feels that Taiwan might be developing weapons (and they certainly have the capability). Bye Bye Taiwan. Preemptive attack so China can feel safe. It has a precedent. They'll just set up a democratic government there and then leave in about 80 years.

real accurate comparison.

has taiwan ever invaded foreign countries, sponsored terrorism or been held captive by a brutal totalitarian regime? how can you expect to have a reasonable debate while making comparisons that are so wildly innacurate? the situation of taiwan/china is so vastly different from US/Iraq and should be treated as such. Taiwan is not threatening in its military prowess or agression (it has never been aggressive) but in the idea that it represents: a free society.

Nice try to confuse the issue. The issue is pre-emption which has long been held in violation of international relations, but I mean yeah so long as we feel we are justified right? Same applies here, the worlds premier super-power and sole remaining hegemon began pre-emption, not it is precedent.

 

[Witling]

Zebo, at least one of us is wrong. In your post of 11/19/03 at 6:03 p.m. you petulantly wrote (and it's hard to write petulantly) "I did too [answer the question you posed about why we didn't invade China if they were the worst government going]. Fortunately for us, this seems to be a question of fact. I'm saying you didn't answer my question before the post mentioned above. At least one of us is wrong. Can you correct this poor befudled subscriber in his assertion that you're incorrect in your assertion that you had previously answered? If not, kindly shut up in this thread. (That's a wish, not a command). Show me O Sage, where I ere. I've admitted to errors on this board before.

 

[chuckieland]

China's leader would never allow Taiwan to be seperate from mother China.
if that happen, he would go down in history as the worse leader in China's history ever
besides, i don't know what's all the fuss about
USA may have the freedom, but it would never allow one of it's state(s) to seperate from mother USA too, and i would series image usa us military action too.( and they did, check your history book)

in this issue
China is no different then USA

 

[kage69]

China's leader would never allow Taiwan to be seperate from mother China

Taiwan has been seperate from China for quite some time now, perhaps you haven't heard.

besides, i don't know what's all the fuss about

All the fuss is about Beijing not wanting to lose face, and Taiwan not wanting to be governed by brutal communist arseholes.

USA may have the freedom, but it would never allow one of it's state(s) to seperate from mother USA too, and i would series image usa us military action too.( and they did, check your history book)

Your analogy doesn't work. My history books make no claim to represent any such erroroneous comparison.

in this issue, China is no different than the USA.

Wrong.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: chuckieland
China's leader would never allow Taiwan to be seperate from mother China.
if that happen, he would go down in history as the worse leader in China's history ever
besides, i don't know what's all the fuss about
USA may have the freedom, but it would never allow one of it's state(s) to seperate from mother USA too, and i would series image usa us military action too.( and they did, check your history book)

in this issue
China is no different then USA

I don't think that Taiwan is a state/province of China though.

The US did let Puerto Rico vote for independece, become a state, or stay as a territory.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Zebo
How do you handle a country where if they lost 20 million to a war it would be
immdeiatly offset by the countries birthrate. They would look at that level of
personell loss as if it was a form of birth control (statistically).


In Red Dragon Rising, they talk about what must be done in order to stop Chinas direct challenge and threat to the United States. 1. stop funding them (ie end trade...and "encourage" all others including our new friend russia to do the same 2. Seriously Develop anti-ballistic-missle defense to the tune of 150 billion a year. The roiting in the streets in China cause of loss of dollars and euros could cause governement to collapse or at least implement serious democratic reforms. Or they could crack down even harder if that's possible.. They think this "constuctive engagement" and trade for the last 25 years is a paradox. On one hand you have more leverage over them because thier populus is getting used to the "good" life and we have the capability to influence it..however we are also addicted to cheap products and black balance sheets at the corporate level... on the other we are enableing them to build up, arm others and pose a real threat to our dominance.

Red Dragon Rising sounds like Tom Clancy's book The Bear and the Dragon

And in that book, it argued roughly the same things. But the economic argument was that we can hurt China *a lot* more than they can hurt us. We can always buy lint brushes, Legos, Mr. Potato Heads, and tape dispensers from another country (or produce them ourselves). But who will they sell to if their #1 customer says "no thanks"?

 

[Witling]

But, you know what. China does think of Taiwan as a province. And as for Kage, if we had to depend on your reading of history books to understand history and it's lessons, we'd be in trouble. I found ChuckieLand's statement reasonable and correct -- and well supported as an analogy. Obviously Can O Worms didn't know China considered Taiwan a part of China and from Kage's response, I don't think the old gray wolf understood that either.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Whitling
Zebo, at least one of us is wrong. In your post of 11/19/03 at 6:03 p.m. you petulantly wrote (and it's hard to write petulantly) "I did too [answer the question you posed about why we didn't invade China if they were the worst government going]. Fortunately for us, this seems to be a question of fact. I'm saying you didn't answer my question before the post mentioned above. At least one of us is wrong. Can you correct this poor befudled subscriber in his assertion that you're incorrect in your assertion that you had previously answered? If not, kindly shut up in this thread. (That's a wish, not a command). Show me O Sage, where I ere. I've admitted to errors on this board before.

God knows I do that all the time..not intentional believe me. sorry. I dart between real obligations and my fun here and words get short. Try the post right above where you say:

"Kaizerose, This may suprise you a little, but the Taiwanese weren't all that pleased when Chang Kai Shek (spelling?) came and took over Taiwan. Second you must be naive to the drivelling idiot stage if you think that China can't do this. How about "We're freeing the Taiwanese who have so long been held captive." And Taiwanese do distinguish themselves from the people who came over from mainland China. In terms of never being aggressive, I recognize that Iraq did once invade another piece of arbitrary real estate (boundaries established by Europeans in the 20th century), but as far as being nonagressive, that didn't help Iraq in 2003. Governments make this sh^t up. Yours did. "

Time is different for everyone...depending where you are..

 

[Witling]

Kage, where do you get these gems? "You are aware the 100 mile wide expanse of water that separates Taiwan from the mainland, right? China has vast numbers of ground forces, but their logistics capability is a joke. I'm sure the Taiwanese Navy would have a problem with the attempt as well." If you think the Chinese would have any problem crossing 100 miles of water, think again. Let's assume you've going to use air power to stop the low tech Chinese navy. Where does it fly from? I'm sure you can't mean that the fact that they're separated by 100 miles means something in terms of Taiwan being or not being a part of China (Hint: Think H A W A I I here.)

Kage, you've been reading too much Tom Clancy. It took us months to build up for both Gulf War I and GW II.

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: Whitling
Kage, where do you get these gems? "You are aware the 100 mile wide expanse of water that separates Taiwan from the mainland, right? China has vast numbers of ground forces, but their logistics capability is a joke. I'm sure the Taiwanese Navy would have a problem with the attempt as well." If you think the Chinese would have any problem crossing 100 miles of water, think again. Let's assume you've going to use air power to stop the low tech Chinese navy. Where does it fly from? I'm sure you can't mean that the fact that they're separated by 100 miles means something in terms of Taiwan being or not being a part of China (Hint: Think H A W A I I here.)

Kage, you've been reading too much Tom Clancy. It took us months to build up for both Gulf War I and GW II.

Whitling, you haven't been reading enough Tom Clancy China would have no problem raining down missles and bombs on Taiwan. A combo amphibious/airborne assault of Taiwan would be VERY difficult and costly for China. It probably would eventually succeed, assuming no US intervention, as Taiwan would lose a battle of attrition, even taking 10-1 combat losses.

 

[kage69]

But, you know what. China does think of Taiwan as a province. And as for Kage, if we had to depend on your reading of history books to understand history and it's lessons, we'd be in trouble. I found ChuckieLand's statement reasonable and correct -- and well supported as an analogy. Obviously Can O Worms didn't know China considered Taiwan a part of China and from Kage's response, I don't think the old gray wolf understood that either

I'm sorry you feel that way Whitling. What was it exactly that led you to this opinion on my grasp on history?
I'm well aware that China considers Taiwan a rogue possession, the problem is there are several million Taiwanese that disagree and have a number of things to point to as proof. They have their own military, their own government, a seperate economy, etc. I would say it's your take on history that's wrong if you agree with Chuckielands's analogy, and here's why - there is no equivalent in the US of this situation, i.e. no state has been functioning autonomously for such a long period of time seperate from the Union. And as for the US reacting in a similar way, lobbing threats of forceful compliance, that too doesn't hold up - as CanOWorms said, the US gave Puerto Rico, one of it's possessions, a voice in it's own future, thus proving indeed the US is far different than China.

Old wolf, eh? Don't let the avatar fool ya, I'm 26.

Again, while I think the One China policy is admirable, I can't blame the Taiwanese for not being in a hurry to place themselves under the boot of Beijing - I think we can all agree they haven't got the best track record of taking care of their citizens, and I won't belittle a people who seem to have no qualms about standing up for their own freedom.