WTF is with people and their heat scores?

[FurBurglar]

A 500+ heatware user could also decide to scam the hell out of everyone after years of proper trading, but I'm not exactly worried about that either.

I didn't make it to that scenario yet. How many times have you heard in the news about someone that had everything going for them losing their job and turning to a life of crime? It happens, a lot.

I can use the same reasoning to assume you're going to scam me, so maybe I should never send the money first.

You are exactly right. I have already stated that I think Heat is a good guideline, but either side can decide to go south any time they want to. I base my decisions more on the person's communication than a score on the internet. I never ask anyone to ship first and with larger transactions I will ask for a person's personal info and call them if I need to to feel safer.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: FurBurglar
I understand the concept of Heat scores just like the next guy, but why do some people think that just because they have a higher Heat than can just dictate how things are going to go? I don't mind people asking me to ship first if their Heat is higher than mine, but the answer is always no. It's just not something I believe in doing. That seems to set them off into some ego trip that I am not bowing down to them because they have a higher score than me. If I had the notion and a lot of time on my hands I could have a huge Heat score by simply creating fake identities and padding my score. There are always ways to cheat the system. Overall I think it is a good system to give some idea of a person's character, but it doesn't give you the right to treat others like dirt simply because you have done more online trading than them. What is up with tese people? /insomnia rant off

They have a right to ask you to ship first, you have the right to politely refuse. If they cannot accept that without developing an attitude there is no reason you can't simply decline to turn the deal. I sincerely doubt more than a few with substantial Heat act in this manner though. You don't build a solid, positive trading record by acting like an asshole.

I find it interesting you will never ship first under any circumstances, yet you expect payment first even when you have fewer Heat. Trading is not suited for everyone, perhaps you fall into that category.

 

[FurBurglar]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: FurBurglar
Well let's break that down. To get 500 Heat in one month you would have to be doing about 17 transactions a day. If someone was doing that much business in an online forum that would have to be their full-time job. They would have to monitor their threads, answer all the PMs and emails, setup the payments, and deal with the actual shipping of the items. It would scream one of two things to me: either it is bogus, or they are business using the forums to peddle their wares which if I'm not mistaken is a big no-no on most message boards.

I can understand why dealers aren't allowed, but that doesn't mean I'd be less trusting of them if they were on this site.

As for the bogus heatware, nice and easy to pick up. Like I said, in less than 3 minutes of browsing and going 2 levels deep in your very own heatware, the people that have given you evals have dealt with the likes of purplehippo, John, hans007, Alex00, and a bunch of other traders I recognize or have dealt with. So if they dealt with them, there's a good chance their dealings with you are legit.

I am not arguing that one bit. You are actually using Heat the way it was designed to be used. My original rant was about people that don't use it in that manner and just look at the number rather than the overall picture. I just didn't manage to word it very well I guess.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: FurBurglar

A 500+ heatware user could also decide to scam the hell out of everyone after years of proper trading, but I'm not exactly worried about that either.

I didn't make it to that scenario yet. How many times have you heard in the news about someone that had everything going for them losing their job and turning to a life of crime? It happens, a lot.

:thumbsdown:

Fail.

 

[FurBurglar]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: FurBurglar
I understand the concept of Heat scores just like the next guy, but why do some people think that just because they have a higher Heat than can just dictate how things are going to go? I don't mind people asking me to ship first if their Heat is higher than mine, but the answer is always no. It's just not something I believe in doing. That seems to set them off into some ego trip that I am not bowing down to them because they have a higher score than me. If I had the notion and a lot of time on my hands I could have a huge Heat score by simply creating fake identities and padding my score. There are always ways to cheat the system. Overall I think it is a good system to give some idea of a person's character, but it doesn't give you the right to treat others like dirt simply because you have done more online trading than them. What is up with tese people? /insomnia rant off

They have a right to ask you to ship first, you have the right to politely refuse. If they cannot accept that without developing an attitude there is no reason you can't simply decline to turn the deal. I sincerely doubt more than a few with substantial Heat act in this manner though. You don't build a solid, positive trading record by acting like an asshole.

I find it interesting you will never ship first under any circumstances, yet you expect payment first even when you have fewer Heat. Trading is not suited for everyone, perhaps you fall into that category.

But when you politely refuse and they respond with an argumentative PM then follow that up with another PM that starts "And one other thing...." continuing to treat you like a lower person because they have a higher score is wrong.

I have done plenty of transactions on message boards dating back to before there was a thing called Heatware. I just believe in doing things the way we did back then, communicate, establish some kind of rapport, then if you feel comfortable you make a transaction. Not just blindly following some score posted on the internet. I think I'm ok with trading, I guess I'm just a little old school.

 

[FurBurglar]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: FurBurglar

A 500+ heatware user could also decide to scam the hell out of everyone after years of proper trading, but I'm not exactly worried about that either.

I didn't make it to that scenario yet. How many times have you heard in the news about someone that had everything going for them losing their job and turning to a life of crime? It happens, a lot.

:thumbsdown:

Fail.

Care to expound on that? It could go one of two ways.

 

[Fayd]

i have like 7 heat, and i still dont trust people enough for me to ship first.

sorry.... unless i can deck you irl, items dont go out before at least some money arrives.

(however, i do pay first, generally. i know it doesnt seem like much of a difference, but it is to me)

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: FurBurglar

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: FurBurglar

A 500+ heatware user could also decide to scam the hell out of everyone after years of proper trading, but I'm not exactly worried about that either.

I didn't make it to that scenario yet. How many times have you heard in the news about someone that had everything going for them losing their job and turning to a life of crime? It happens, a lot.

:thumbsdown:

Fail.

Care to expound on that? It could go one of two ways.

The likelihood of that happening with a respected and veteran trader is so ridiculously rare that it's stupid to even get worked up over.

Comparing the FS/FT to events you hear on the news is just ridiculous. Short of major fraud by big execs, you don't hear much about it. And we're not talking about Joe Nobody here. If we were talking about Joe Nobody losing his job and turning to a life of crime, we'd have to analyze how many people in the 20-50 range of Heatware have decided to scam. And I bet that number is actually pretty high (relatively).

Since we're comparing this to the news now, care to tell me offhand how many highly trusted people with ridiculous amounts of heatware have gone rogue in the past year?

 

[FurBurglar]

Originally posted by: Fayd
i have like 7 heat, and i still dont trust people enough for me to ship first.

sorry.... unless i can deck you irl, items dont go out before at least some money arrives.

(however, i do pay first, generally. i know it doesnt seem like much of a difference, but it is to me)

You're right, there is no difference in the two. You are exposing yourself either way. That is exactly why I revert to the way things have been done since before the internet was around *gasp* For the record when I am the buyer I have never, and will never ask for an item to be shipped first. It's just not the way things should be done.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: FurBurglar

Originally posted by: Fayd
i have like 7 heat, and i still dont trust people enough for me to ship first.

sorry.... unless i can deck you irl, items dont go out before at least some money arrives.

(however, i do pay first, generally. i know it doesnt seem like much of a difference, but it is to me)

You're right, there is no difference in the two. You are exposing yourself either way. That is exactly why I revert to the way things have been done since before the internet was around *gasp* For the record when I am the buyer I have never, and will never ask for an item to be shipped first. It's just not the way things should be done.

There's actually a huge difference.

If you pay first with a CC (CC Paypal) you're very well protected by the card's chargeback ability. So if Paypal doesn't side with you, there's still your card issuer to deal with.

When physical merchandise is lost, it's gone for good.

 

[FurBurglar]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: FurBurglar

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: FurBurglar

A 500+ heatware user could also decide to scam the hell out of everyone after years of proper trading, but I'm not exactly worried about that either.

I didn't make it to that scenario yet. How many times have you heard in the news about someone that had everything going for them losing their job and turning to a life of crime? It happens, a lot.

:thumbsdown:

Fail.

Care to expound on that? It could go one of two ways.

The likelihood of that happening with a respected and veteran trader is so ridiculously rare that it's stupid to even get worked up over.

Comparing the FS/FT to events you hear on the news is just ridiculous. Short of major fraud by big execs, you don't hear much about it. And we're not talking about Joe Nobody here. If we were talking about Joe Nobody losing his job and turning to a life of crime, we'd have to analyze how many people in the 20-50 range of Heatware have decided to scam. And I bet that number is actually pretty high (relatively).

Since we're comparing this to the news now, care to tell me offhand how many highly trusted people with ridiculous amounts of heatware have gone rogue in the past year?

No I can't tell you that. Is there a place where they compile that data? (note: turn on sarcasm sensor) I bet there are more than you think.

 

[FurBurglar]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: FurBurglar

Originally posted by: Fayd
i have like 7 heat, and i still dont trust people enough for me to ship first.

sorry.... unless i can deck you irl, items dont go out before at least some money arrives.

(however, i do pay first, generally. i know it doesnt seem like much of a difference, but it is to me)

You're right, there is no difference in the two. You are exposing yourself either way. That is exactly why I revert to the way things have been done since before the internet was around *gasp* For the record when I am the buyer I have never, and will never ask for an item to be shipped first. It's just not the way things should be done.

There's actually a huge difference.

If you pay first with a CC (CC Paypal) you're very well protected by the card's chargeback ability. So if Paypal doesn't side with you, there's still your card issuer to deal with.

When physical merchandise is lost, it's gone for good.

Have you failed to notice the number of people that state "non-CC Paypal only" in their FS/T threads? It grows by the day.

BTW, your statement is very PRO pay first, ship second.

 

[imported_Mike]

The value of Heat, although still high in my opinion, has diminished over the past few years. This is mainly due to trolls. Trolls are not a new bread of scum, there have always been trolls and there always will be. People are scared to trade sometimes, and AT doesn't help parading the bad deals stickied at the top of the thread. I don't have the numbers with me, but I know that there are a very small percehntage of bad deals compared with all the deals that do take place. Back in the day, Heat was a right of passage..something you earned. I started my Heat by shipping first/cross shipping with respected traders and built mine into something respectable itself. I have by no means "alot" of Heat and the saying; "A traders Heat is only as good as their last eval" rings true even more so today. At the end of the day, you have to do what you feel is right. If that means you will never ship first, so be it, but also understand where some of the respected traders are coming from. This by NO means grants them a free pass to bitch-fit, but I think it does grant them some push if it's used in a respectful manner.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: FurBurglar

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: FurBurglar
I understand the concept of Heat scores just like the next guy, but why do some people think that just because they have a higher Heat than can just dictate how things are going to go? I don't mind people asking me to ship first if their Heat is higher than mine, but the answer is always no. It's just not something I believe in doing. That seems to set them off into some ego trip that I am not bowing down to them because they have a higher score than me. If I had the notion and a lot of time on my hands I could have a huge Heat score by simply creating fake identities and padding my score. There are always ways to cheat the system. Overall I think it is a good system to give some idea of a person's character, but it doesn't give you the right to treat others like dirt simply because you have done more online trading than them. What is up with tese people? /insomnia rant off

They have a right to ask you to ship first, you have the right to politely refuse. If they cannot accept that without developing an attitude there is no reason you can't simply decline to turn the deal. I sincerely doubt more than a few with substantial Heat act in this manner though. You don't build a solid, positive trading record by acting like an asshole.

I find it interesting you will never ship first under any circumstances, yet you expect payment first even when you have fewer Heat. Trading is not suited for everyone, perhaps you fall into that category.

But when you politely refuse and they respond with an argumentative PM then follow that up with another PM that starts "And one other thing...." continuing to treat you like a lower person because they have a higher score is wrong.

I have done plenty of transactions on message boards dating back to before there was a thing called Heatware. I just believe in doing things the way we did back then, communicate, establish some kind of rapport, then if you feel comfortable you make a transaction. Not just blindly following some score posted on the internet. I think I'm ok with trading, I guess I'm just a little old school.

That is how trades are still handled, Heat is just a reference system. If you were old school you would understand there is nothing wrong with shipping first to someone with an established record.

I think there was more that went on that is not being disclosed by the OP. I just find it very difficult to believe anyone would build a good trading record acting in that manner. Next time add that person to your DNT list and forget about them. You have already been added to mine for a variety of reasons. If you feel as if they harassed you via PM bring to the attention of the mods.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: FurBurglar
Have you failed to notice the number of people that state "non-CC Paypal only" in their FS/T threads? It grows by the day.

BTW, your statement is very PRO pay first, ship second.

Sure I have. Doesn't change the fact that people still will take it sometimes. Non-CC paypal also has a lot to do with the structure of Paypal's fees and last I checked, if you had an account that took CC Paypal, you got hit for fees even on non-CC transactions. When I was more active, people were much more accepting of CC Paypal if you mentioned you'd be willing to pay the fees.

As for the second statement:
Absolutely it is. I've never said I was for or against having to pay first. When I sell merchandise, I feel much better if I have the money in my hands first. That's why for a long time when I traded, I only accepted USPS MO. There's no going back once that puppy is cashed.

That doesn't mean for certain people I didn't make an exception and ship first. Most commonly it was because of the high number of heatware.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: Mike
The value of Heat, although still high in my opinion, has diminished over the past few years. This is mainly due to trolls. Trolls are not a new bread of scum, there have always been trolls and there always will be. People are scared to trade sometimes, and AT doesn't help parading the bad deals stickied at the top of the thread. I don't have the numbers with me, but I know that there are a very small percehntage of bad deals compared with all the deals that do take place. Back in the day, Heat was a right of passage..something you earned. I started my Heat by shipping first/cross shipping with respected traders and built mine into something respectable itself. I have by no means "alot" of Heat and the saying; "A traders Heat is only as good as their last eval" rings true even more so today. At the end of the day, you have to do what you feel is right. If that means you will never ship first, so be it, but also understand where some of the respected traders are coming from. This by NO means grants them a free pass to bitch-fit, but I think it does grant them some push if it's used in a respectful manner.

Absofrigginlutely. I think on my first dozen or so deals, I was either shipping/paying first or cross-shipping. I didn't even think about getting my side of the deal first until I had at least 20 under my belt. And even then, if someone's heat dwarfed mine, they got the courtesy, no questions asked.

 

[BigJ]

Speaking of which, heat23, I'm locked out of my account! Halp!

 

[FurBurglar]

That is how trades are still handled, Heat is just a reference system. If you were old school you would understand there is nothing wrong with shipping first to someone with an established record.

I think there was more that went on that is not being disclosed by the OP. I just find it very difficult to believe anyone would build a good trading record acting in that manner. Next time add that person to your DNT list and forget about them. You have already been added to mine for a variety of reasons. If you feel as if they harassed you via PM bring to the attention of the mods.

You have put me on your DNT list "for various reasons"? I would be curious to know what those are since we have never even spoken, much less carried out a transaction.

And by old school I am talking Knight Rider and The A-team old school, not Saved by the Bell old school. Nobody shipped first when there wasn't someone keeping score. That has only come about in the past few years.

 

[FurBurglar]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: FurBurglar
Have you failed to notice the number of people that state "non-CC Paypal only" in their FS/T threads? It grows by the day.

BTW, your statement is very PRO pay first, ship second.

Sure I have. Doesn't change the fact that people still will take it sometimes. Non-CC paypal also has a lot to do with the structure of Paypal's fees and last I checked, if you had an account that took CC Paypal, you got hit for fees even on non-CC transactions. When I was more active, people were much more accepting of CC Paypal if you mentioned you'd be willing to pay the fees.

As for the second statement:
Absolutely it is. I've never said I was for or against having to pay first. When I sell merchandise, I feel much better if I have the money in my hands first. That's why for a long time when I traded, I only accepted USPS MO. There's no going back once that puppy is cashed.

That doesn't mean for certain people I didn't make an exception and ship first. Most commonly it was because of the high number of heatware.

Money orders used to be the only way of doing things. When PayPal first started it was a great system. Then they royally screwed it up and have never been able to right the ship. I was screwed by PP one time simply because a guy shipped me a box with a blank VCR tape in it. He had a tracking number, it showed delivered, that's all PayPal needed to side with him. Luckily I had paid with a CC so I had the CC company reverse the charges. I still use PayPal to pay and accept it as payment. It is just too convenient to give up. I just approach it the same way I do the rest of the transaction with some caution and common sense.

 

[BabaBooey]

If you do not like it ,do not do it if you dislike their way of doing this,simple.


Anyone can turn bad,deal with it and learn how to conduct a deal online like this or newegg is that way ------------------------>


Most of online ripoffs is poor judgement or the uncontrolable will for that oh so awesome deal like the guy in FS forum thought he was going to get a "new ?" sony $1500 laptop for $500 ....



Hell I did damn near same thing few years ago but only gave up $250 ( half down ) and never saw him again and this guy had been at the site since 1999 but low heat and a too good to be true laptop deal...heat / common sense has worked for me ever since.




So to sum it all up....your rant is weak.

 

[chuckywang]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: jagec
I think he's talking about when a person with 300 heat won't trust a person with 100 heat, and always asks them to ship first.

I doubt it.

He makes it sound more like he has no HEAT and people with 100 HEAT tell him "Ship first or no deal"

I then also lose faith in his trading character at lines like this..

"If I had the notion and a lot of time on my hands I could have a huge Heat score by simply creating fake identities and padding my score. There are always ways to cheat the system."

Hard to put faith in someone who says that.

Moreover it's stupid, because people can tell by the reviews own HEAT scores if they are padding or not.

He has 21 Heat.

 

[FurBurglar]

Originally posted by: bababooey
If you do not like it ,do not do it if you dislike their way of doing this,simple.


Anyone can turn bad,deal with it and learn how to conduct a deal online like this or newegg is that way ------------------------>


Most of online ripoffs is poor judgement or the uncontrolable will for that oh so awesome deal like the guy in FS forum thought he was going to get a "new ?" sony $1500 laptop for $500 ....



Hell I did damn near same thing few years ago but only gave up $250 ( half down ) and never saw him again and this guy had been at the site since 1999 but low heat and a too good to be true laptop deal...heat / common sense has worked for me ever since.




So to sum it all up....your rant is weak.

Apparently something is lost in translation. I just went back and reread my OP to make sure I hadn't said something I didn't mean to. My rant was about the certain people that treat their Heat score like it gives them the right to look down on other people. It was not bashing Heat. It was not bashing everyone that has good Heat. It was aimed squarely at the people who think their Heat gives them a right to tell you how the transaction is going to go and when you politely say no they give you snide comments and in not so many words tell you you will never amount to anything as a trader if you don't do it their way. I love the fact that I have been attacked and accused of holding information only telling my version of the story. I will offer some cliff notes here but if anyone wants I will provide them a full transcript.

I have a FS thread. I am asking $35 for an item. Potential buyer contacts me via PM with an offer.

Him - If you are willing to ship first and take $32 consider the deal done.
Me - I won't ship first. I think my feedback is strong enough to support me. I will do $32 though.

It could have been left at that, but it wasn't.

Him - Well my HEAT is far higher I won't pay first so if you don't sell it and change your mind let me know.

I already know his Heat is higher than mine. I have already given my stance but I feel I must offer a rebuttal.

Me - Not trying to be an ass but I don't buy into that "my Heat is higher so you ship first" line of reasoning.

I'm sure I could have worded it differently, but I don't feel that is anywhere near being argumentative. Once again I felt we had each stated our side and it was over. I was wrong again.

Him - It is really more about respecting long standing community members and I frankly have risked more times in the past and established more online trades then you through anandtech. That is fine if you dont buy into it but I have a whole lot more heat then you so I at least have the right to ask. Thanks anyway.

I respect people for being long standing members of any community, but I don't really feel like that means I owe them anything. The number of times he has put himself at risk has no bearing on me putting myself at risk this time. He still feels the need to point out to me once again that he has more Heat than me giving him the right to ask. We all have the right to ask, but I don't need to keep hearing about your Heat. Then he follows it up with this gem. Not immediately mind you, but a few minutes later so he had time to think about it and really wanted to get a dig in.

Him - One last thing, not to be an ass but you do have 1 negative on your ebay record and I think that is reason enough with my rep to ask for you to ship first. On the flip side after reading some reviews and evaluation my game taste I think I am better off with COD4 and just bought that via steam...thanks for being uncooperative I will be better off |-:

Wow. That was nice. And totally called for. (please sense sarcasm) Just for total disclosure this was my response.

Me - Uncooperative? You are asking me to put myself at a risk that you won't take yourself. As far as my Ebay feeback goes, I think all my positives FAR outweigh the one bad feedback from a guy that didn't bother to mention in his auction that he was going to be out of town for two weeks and expected you to mail him a money order and pray. I'll take a negative feedback for exercising some common sense. You can march on with your holier than thou attitude because you have some magical number beside your name on a website. I have always refused to ship first even when I had zero heat and I have never had a problem selling my items here or anywhere else.

Sorry for the length. I figured I would go ahead and put the whole thing up here just easier that way. If I am completely missing something here and deserved that then please let me know. Don't attack me, just offer some constructive criticism. I'm also sorry for all the him, he, and any other male reference, for all I know this person could be female.

 

[BigJ]

Reading the conversation, he nudged you a little bit with the "far higher" line and you definitely goaded him with the response. You definitely came off the wrong way when you said "Not trying to be an ass."

He wasn't that out of line though. Definitely didn't treat you like dirt.

 

[FurBurglar]

Maybe treating like dirt is a little strong, but he definitely took the stance of "I have higher Heat than you so I am better. Do it my way or you are being uncooperative." I admitted to lowering my level with my "Not to be an ass" response but at that point I didn't even know why we were having the conversation besides for him to tell me how much better he was.

 

[akshatp]

Originally posted by: FurBurglar
... but he definitely took the stance of "I have higher Heat than you ...

He does