WTF? 14.5M settlement to metal bat manufacturer.

[rudder]

Someone at my office was talking about this very thing.. Apparently his son plays in some little league where each bat has to be certified to not exceed a certain power, and these bats were very well-known to be "hot".. Somehow the manufacturer paid off the certification people, or something along those lines. From what he claims, they dramatically overpriced the bat because of this... Enough to where other teams would only use this one bat and trade it off between players.

He's one of the bs'ers, so I didn't really put much validity into it... Just throwing that out there. IF this company did pay off the certification people then they deserve to be sued.

Close, but I don't think this is entirely true. There is a maximum rating specification for bats. The figue is 1.15 BPF. The problem was that composite bats would exceed this rating after they were thoroughly broken in. Prior to this season.. may leagues banned composite bats unless they had the new 2012 USSSA 1.15 BPF stamp. Some older composite bats are still allowed (2 1/4" bats) but they will not be able to be used past 2013. Some bats like the Easton Stealth (prior to the 2012 model) are still banned.

 

[Crusty]

Fun fact: I took a line drive to the eye socket while pitching in little league. I was maybe 13 at the time. I had a black eye for a week or two, otherwise I was fine.

 

[Jeeebus]

nobody expects them to work for free. but 1/3 of a settlement is insane. no he does not deserve $4.8 million for it.

why not? I'm assuming whatever amount he is getting paid is pursuant to a contract signed between him and the plaintiff - she was free to go elsewhere or pay an hourly fee for the attorney's time, but agreed instead to a contingency.

Most reputable lawyers won't touch a contingency case unless the prospect of a multimillion dollar judgment/settlement is out there, because otherwise the case is not worth the risk to the law firm. My time is money. When I work on an hourly rate, I expect to be paid for the hours I put in.

If I take a case on contingency, I better damn well win/get a settlement, because otherwise, my firm could be out hundreds of thousands of dollars in hard costs in addition to the time lost that I otherwise could be billing paying clients.

In big products liability/securities class action cases, you're talking about hiring numerous experts (which will cost the firm anywhere from $20,000 - $50,000 each), paying for dozens of depositions, document review, etc.

For a lot of firms, the gamble on contingency simply isn't worth it because they cannot survive if the case does not pan out.

 

[rasczak]

why not? I'm assuming whatever amount he is getting paid is pursuant to a contract signed between him and the plaintiff - she was free to go elsewhere or pay an hourly fee for the attorney's time, but agreed instead to a contingency.

Most reputable lawyers won't touch a contingency case unless the prospect of a multimillion dollar judgment/settlement is out there, because otherwise the case is not worth the risk to the law firm. My time is money. When I work on an hourly rate, I expect to be paid for the hours I put in.

If I take a case on contingency, I better damn well win/get a settlement, because otherwise, my firm could be out hundreds of thousands of dollars in hard costs in addition to the time lost that I otherwise could be billing paying clients.

In big products liability/securities class action cases, you're talking about hiring numerous experts (which will cost the firm anywhere from $20,000 - $50,000 each), paying for dozens of depositions, document review, etc.

For a lot of firms, the gamble on contingency simply isn't worth it because they cannot survive if the case does not pan out.

But how do you justify taking 1/3 of the settlement? Who pays for those expert witnesses in the end? Usually the client, correct? The depositions? Don't those usually come out of the pockets of the clients?

 

[Ns1]

But how do you justify taking 1/3 of the settlement? Who pays for those expert witnesses in the end? Usually the client, correct? The depositions? Don't those usually come out of the pockets of the clients?

If the client is paying the lawyer on an hourly basis then yes, all that comes out of the client's pocket but the client gets the entire share

if the lawyer is doing it on a contingency, then the lawyer is paying all the bills in order to get the 33% share of the settlement.

 

[destrekor]

Have you ever hit with a wood bat before? Unless you are pro, or very used to a wood bat, the ball travels much shorter and with less velocity.

Which is a major problem: without metal bats, youth leagues would be boring as shit for all parties involved.

 

[SearchMaster]

Which is a major problem: without metal bats, youth leagues would be boring as shit for all parties involved.

It's more than just boredom or bigger hits. The newest standard for metal bats is BBCOR, and the elasticity of the bats is regulated to be the same as wooden bats. So youth leagues, at least after 2013, will effectively be using wooden bats. Every league that my 3 sons played in 2012 required BBCOR bats.

The appeal to me, at least, of metal bats is the durability. I have a 13 year old son who plays baseball year round. This summer he played in wood bat leagues and tournaments and broke every wood bat I bought him. They run $75-$100 each.

The enjoyability of the games didn't diminish with the wood bats. The team he played for in the beginning of the season (14U) averaged 2 HRs per game, on high school fields with 335-375 foot fences.

As to the comment early in the thread about the illegal "hot" bats: I've seen a couple of times this year where kids had illegal bats (not BPF 1.15 or BBCOR) but they had a BBCOR stamp. There are people who are selling BBCOR or BPF stickers to put on older models of bats. It's a shame that people are teaching their kids such tactics but that might be what his office BS'er was rambling about. I am not aware of manufacturers "paying off" certification authorities and one of my kid's coaches is VERY knowledgeable in this area. He can spot an illegal bat from 100 feet away and pissed off many a coach this year by calling out their bats.

[edit]After posting this I did a quick Google search - there are companies who are modifying previously legal bats to make them perform better - I bet that's what your guy had. http://www.batrolling4u.com/shaved_rolled_bbcor_baseball_bats.html
[/edit]

 

[Darwin333]

Someone at my office was talking about this very thing.. Apparently his son plays in some little league where each bat has to be certified to not exceed a certain power, and these bats were very well-known to be "hot".. Somehow the manufacturer paid off the certification people, or something along those lines. From what he claims, they dramatically overpriced the bat because of this... Enough to where other teams would only use this one bat and trade it off between players.

He's one of the bs'ers, so I didn't really put much validity into it... Just throwing that out there. IF this company did pay off the certification people then they deserve to be sued.

I don't know anything about baseball but my daughter does play on 3 softball teams including a travel team that took 8th in the USFA World Series so I pay quite a bit for softball lol. I have personally purchased 3 bats that have a msrp of $300-400 each. The thing about these new bats is the composite metal becomes "hotter" the more that it is broken in. I think this has changed but bats used to be tested brand new, as in not broken in. The bat passes right at regulation which for softball is 98 mph exit speed and a 1.20 Bat Performance Factor (the "bounciness" of the bat or how much of a trampoline effect the ball will have off the bat).

These new composite bats meet those requirements when they are brand new but some of them tend to get hotter or "bouncier" as they get broken in. I think they just made this illegal but you used to be able to get a bat "rolled" where they take the bat and literally roll it between two big metal rollers. Basically they instantly break the bat in and while it looks beat to hell it performs significantly better than brand new.

I doubt anyone is getting "paid off" because they get tested by multiple different leagues but they could have had some influence in the testing rules/procedures.

 

[Darwin333]

Close, but I don't think this is entirely true. There is a maximum rating specification for bats. The figue is 1.15 BPF. The problem was that composite bats would exceed this rating after they were thoroughly broken in. Prior to this season.. may leagues banned composite bats unless they had the new 2012 USSSA 1.15 BPF stamp. Some older composite bats are still allowed (2 1/4" bats) but they will not be able to be used past 2013. Some bats like the Easton Stealth (prior to the 2012 model) are still banned.

My daughters current bat is an Easton Stealth Fast Pitch bat and as of last year once it was properly broken in it was the hottest bat around. Softball regs usually lag behind baseballs (and I haven't had time to check out the new ones coming up) but I am betting I will be buying her another bat when the 2013 rules go into effect. Friggen softball costs me more than my damn house note but she is turning into one hell of a breaking ball pitcher.

 

[Darwin333]

+1. I mean.. how hard/far do you really need to hit the ball??

As far and as hard as possible with legal equipment.

If it becomes a problem, then move the fences in, or maybe teach kids to hit line drives instead of trying to hit bombs everytime?

Every single hitting coach I have ever seen in my life teaches line drives. You have a few "sluggers" but you damn sure don't want a bunch of them on your lineup because most of the time the player with the most home runs is also the player with the most strike outs.

Then again, if this happened companies like Easton would cause a huge stink because they'd lose a piss ton of money from people who buy a new bat for their spoiled brat of a kid every year to have the latest and greatest.

Actually those composite bats usually last a few seasons, especially as they get older and stop growing so fast. Matter of fact, those expensive bats actually get better as they get broken in. OTOH, my friends son uses a wooden bat and he has to buy a few every year.

 

[alkemyst]

so the lawyers will get 1/3 of the settlement.

actually much more since they are now allowed to also be reimbursed for their costs outside that cut. Figure 50% at least they will get.

 

[TraumaRN]

For all those in disbelief about the lawsuit and large settlement amount....believe me when I say you can be served with a civil lawsuit on just about anything in the USA. If any of you have followed my divorce thread in L&R then you'll know exactly what I mean.

If you haven't read that thread the short version is I'm getting sued by my ex wife cuz she says I gave her an STD(I didn't, always safe and tested negative, never cheated) but she managed to file it anyways because she said I gave it to her and that was enough to file a lawsuit. She needed no other proof and now I've gotta defend myself in court. Seriously messed up legal system when you can file a lawsuit based on hearsay and almost zero physical proof.

I feel bad for the kid but seriously accidents happen. Outcome could have been exactly the same with a wood bat. Then what??

 

[Darwin333]

actually much more since they are now allowed to also be reimbursed for their costs outside that cut. Figure 50% at least they will get.

So they get to charge there 1/3rd as pure profit with all costs incurred (including their time?) being additional?

 

[alkemyst]

So they get to charge there 1/3rd as pure profit with all costs incurred (including their time?) being additional?

yes, this is the way it now works. Add that to the fact that they can fluff the bill with everything made in 25-50 copies at $0.25/each and the like and it's easy to have 50% of a settlement going to the law firm.

I don't think the actual lawyer's time is ever part of this, however; staff time is.

 

[Jeeebus]

yes, this is the way it now works. Add that to the fact that they can fluff the bill with everything made in 25-50 copies at $0.25/each and the like and it's easy to have 50% of a settlement going to the law firm.

I don't think the actual lawyer's time is ever part of this, however; staff time is.

Interesting. I wasn't aware that you were also a party to this lawsuit in New Jersey state court, and therefore aware of the specific terms of the settlement agreement.

 

[alkemyst]

Interesting. I wasn't aware that you were also a party to this lawsuit in New Jersey state court, and therefore aware of the specific terms of the settlement agreement.

ummm you know you could ummm elaborate.

AFAIK, nationally what I had stated was standard practice now. I don't have experience in all states, but I know Florida is indeed like this and my relatives have commented likewise that live out-of-state.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I suppose I could see the possibility for liability here. If the bat manufacturer claimed that the bat was legal to use in all children's leagues when in fact it exceeded little league specifications they should be liable. If the store pushed the bat as a little league bat when they knew it exceeded little league specifications they would also have some liability, although that seems harder to nail down.

The only way the parents could possibly have a case is if the above was true, or if that specific bat was an anomaly with higher performance than others of the same model. In the latter instance they could make the case that the manufacturer was negligent in their quality control.

 

[Imp]

Have you ever hit with a wood bat before? Unless you are pro, or very used to a wood bat, the ball travels much shorter and with less velocity.

Honestly, I have never used a wooden bat before. We (family) bought an aluminum bat when I was a kid, and throughout school up to highschool, it was all aluminum and softballs.

I had no clue why we didn't use wood. Thought it had something to do with breakage.


So... I'm assuming the league itself in OP's story got sued too, but due to the "deep pockets" rule, the corporations/businesses were the only ones that had to pay out?

 

[Homerboy]

There's a lot of talking out of asses here.
LL changed bat rules as of 2012

http://www.littleleague.org/media/n...ec/LLAnnouncesBatRuleChangesfor2012Season.htm

most non-LL affiliated leagues follow these same rules. Every HS league/conference has rules in place limiting bats. If manufacturer want to make any money (ie: actually sell bats) they follow these rules and get their bats certified. They DO check bats at games/tournaments. All bats are stamped with what they are approved for as well.

I personally am in the market right now for a new composite for my 11yr old. The 2013s come out in November. The difference between the pop/power on a full composite over an alloy is a joke.

 

[Darwin333]

There's a lot of talking out of asses here.
LL changed bat rules as of 2012

http://www.littleleague.org/media/n...ec/LLAnnouncesBatRuleChangesfor2012Season.htm

most non-LL affiliated leagues follow these same rules. Every HS league/conference has rules in place limiting bats. If manufacturer want to make any money (ie: actually sell bats) they follow these rules and get their bats certified. They DO check bats at games/tournaments. All bats are stamped with what they are approved for as well.

I personally am in the market right now for a new composite for my 11yr old. The 2013s come out in November. The difference between the pop/power on a full composite over an alloy is a joke.

Licensed composite-barreled bats (2 1/4 inch barrels) that meet the Bat Peformance Factor (BPF) standard, and the Accelerated Break In (ABI) procedure, are listed below.

I see that baseball has went to an "accelerated break in test" in order to eliminate some of what I was talking about but to date the 2011 bat rules are still in effect for softball. So in softball right now, even though a bat is approved and has the sticker on it a composite bat that has been broken in can exceed the testing criteria.

Due to this, at least in softball, the difference in pop/power is not what I would call a "joke".

 

[Homerboy]

w000p! Just got word the local shop for the 2013 Eastons in today. I'll be heading there to check them out with my boy and swing some demos in the batting cage!

2012s heavily discounted too... tempting...

 

[Majes]

I remember in Little League about 15 years ago there were new bats out that made an incredible ping noise when you hit the ball with them. Little kids were hitting the ball a mile with these and I always wanted one... The regulations now on baseball bats are much more stringent. This being said I played baseball for 20 years of my life and I was a pitcher for all of it. I took a couple of bad hops off of my legs, but never had one hit back that I was scared I couldn't react to. You have to teach your young pitchers how to land in a ready position when they throw the ball.

Also, sad to say this, but if a line drive is rocketed back at you then you most likely threw an awful pitch...

Feel bad for the kid though... Terrible luck...

 

[Tommy2000GT]

I think some people have kids and hope they get killed so there will be a big pay off.