WoW PVP rant

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: Markbnj
Calling anything in WoW PvP is sort of like calling the soapbox derby racing, when all you're really doing is rolling downhill.

so if wow pvp isn't pvp then what is?

 

[skace]

Originally posted by: rh71
about the AFK people, I find it hilarious in AV that you can now throw snowballs at them and zone them out...

except people spending time doing that aren't quite contributing either. 😀

rofl 🙂 snowballs are awesome. My friend was throwing snowballs at his own teamates at the bridge and someone called him an Alliance Assassin. Oh man. Lucky I've got 400 snowballs in my bank and 500 on me.

Oh and hungfarover, he was probably comparing it to FPS pvp, such as Quake or Halo. But, I have to admit, WoW WSG Battlegrounds is about as skilled as an MMORPG will ever be in PVP. Warsung Gulch is just completely insanely competitve. Mainly because the loser doesn't get anything more than a freaking measely token.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: skace
rofl 🙂 snowballs are awesome. My friend was throwing snowballs at his own teamates at the bridge and someone called him an Alliance Assassin. Oh man. Lucky I've got 400 snowballs in my bank and 500 on me.

Dude, some guy in AV the other day was cruisin' for a bruisin' if he threw one more snowball at me. I'm sitting there solo'n f'n Lieutenant Grummus on my rogue and the bastard keeps snowballing me! Believe it or not, I kinda try to not get hit and the 1s stun doesn't really help.

Originally posted by: skace
Oh and hungfarover, he was probably comparing it to FPS pvp, such as Quake or Halo. But, I have to admit, WoW WSG Battlegrounds is about as skilled as an MMORPG will ever be in PVP. Warsung Gulch is just completely insanely competitve. Mainly because the loser doesn't get anything more than a freaking measely token.

Nah, as long as you cap at least 1 flag, you still get bonus honor 🙂. Although it is true that in all BG spankin's (2000-0 AB 5-caps and 3-0 WSG wins) that you get no honor. WSG is also practically just like all FPS CTF games, except not all players are created equal. There's also healing, which I don't recall ever existing in any FPS CTFs that I've ever played (sans Tribes... such a good game).

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: CKent
I do think the recent buffs to rogues and hunters were part of a low-key approach to making the alliance more powerful, since they have a higher percentage of these classes. The alliance has a longstanding complaint about losing AB/WSG, usually blaming horde racials and/or shamans for it. In reality it's because they suck, but the developers need to keep them happy to keep the $$$ rolling in.

I don't know if I can agree with this... I still kill just as fast as I did 31/8/12 as I do 41/2/8. Rogues are still very easily killable by someone who knows what they're doing. As long as you can catch us out of stealth, we're usually killable.

You need to talk to my druid friend and see how fast she can beat my rogue in a duel. About 4 fricken moves and I'm dead. I only ever caught her in stealth once (4/5 MoD + Shadowmeld vs her 5/5 Feral Instincts + Shadowmeld + Stealth enchant) and I still lost that duel. I literally said to her after the first duel, "what the hell did you do!?", because I looked at my combat log and I saw nothing that showed where all the damage came from, because literally after the initial attacks and a moonfire, I had like 1200 hp left out of my 3900! Then, she'll just drop to bear and has 12000 armor, which makes my attacks utterly useless (bar using warrior-esque kiting techniques). Then you have the recent nerf to Vanish as it cannot be used to remove Snares when Faerie Fired (before it just removed the snare, but since you had FF, you couldn't stealth).

Admittedly I was talking more about hunters. The rogue "buff" is more a result of the decursive nerf and what it's done to my chances vs. rogues as a shaman. Pre-1.12, I didn't even need my rank 2 trinket. With the addition of vile poisons in the 1.12 review, rogues had a fair chance against me if they had dual-crippling. Now, without decursive, I stand no chance. Shamans have no escape abilities; we can't blink, fearbomb or DC you... we're the only class with zilch for stuns/CC. We can no longer make good on those microsecond breaks in the stunlock to get some distance.

 

[Aikouka]

I don't have CCWatch anymore or Vile Poisons 😛. What you need to do, is if you know a rogue is near you and you can't stop him.. just throw a sword-n-board (not really a sword since you can't wield them!) on and take the extra damage. Then when you get the chance, War Stomp it up (if you're a Tauren). Rogues aren't always lucky enough to crit a lot and if we don't... well, we'll have a harder time killing things.

And Hunters have always had quite the imba-ness against 'em. Although, there aren't many hunters that play their class well enough to show it. You wouldn't believe how many hunters I could easily beat before the patch on my priest, and I shouldn't have been able to! Simply Viper Stinging a priest kills their mana with ease and makes em a sittin' duck. But most hunters don't Viper Sting. Now their new Silencing Shot will make them a bit more annoying if I ever go back to my priest.

Talking about priests... I still need to decide on a spec: Healbot or PVP god?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: Aikouka

Originally posted by: pontifex
who only had what gear? i'm a lvl 29 shaman.

Weren't you the guy with the twink who only had twink gear but not the uber enchants that was posting in the other thread? I can't remember :x

i have fiery enchant on my axe, the max +stam enchants on bracers and boots, +9 agility(i think its 9) on gloves, and +100 hp on BP.

not sure if i left anything out. if someone can tell me what i can use to see my character on a website, i'll post it for you.

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Aikouka
I don't have CCWatch anymore or Vile Poisons 😛. What you need to do, is if you know a rogue is near you and you can't stop him.. just throw a sword-n-board (not really a sword since you can't wield them!) on and take the extra damage. Then when you get the chance, War Stomp it up (if you're a Tauren). Rogues aren't always lucky enough to crit a lot and if we don't... well, we'll have a harder time killing things.

And Hunters have always had quite the imba-ness against 'em. Although, there aren't many hunters that play their class well enough to show it. You wouldn't believe how many hunters I could easily beat before the patch on my priest, and I shouldn't have been able to! Simply Viper Stinging a priest kills their mana with ease and makes em a sittin' duck. But most hunters don't Viper Sting. Now their new Silencing Shot will make them a bit more annoying if I ever go back to my priest.

Talking about priests... I still need to decide on a spec: Healbot or PVP god?

I always have my shield on, I'm elemental. My rogue strategy requires distance. Due to the shock cooldown and the rarity of breaks in the stunlock, I'd be dead before I shocked one to death, and I do virtually no melee damage. I'm a troll, no warstomp or stun resist, but berserking means faster cast times which is a big help for my spec. Another major part of the "rogue buff" is indirect as well - every rogue has a rank 14 mainhand now. The margin for error is much smaller.

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: skace

Originally posted by: rh71
about the AFK people, I find it hilarious in AV that you can now throw snowballs at them and zone them out...

except people spending time doing that aren't quite contributing either. 😀

rofl 🙂 snowballs are awesome. My friend was throwing snowballs at his own teamates at the bridge and someone called him an Alliance Assassin. Oh man. Lucky I've got 400 snowballs in my bank and 500 on me.

Oh and hungfarover, he was probably comparing it to FPS pvp, such as Quake or Halo. But, I have to admit, WoW WSG Battlegrounds is about as skilled as an MMORPG will ever be in PVP. Warsung Gulch is just completely insanely competitve. Mainly because the loser doesn't get anything more than a freaking measely token.

I figured as much, and I play those games too, but in terms of RPG's, WoW does PvP very very well IMO.

We run guild pvp premades every night on vent. Last night we were doing premade 40-mans in AV with the help of a mod called "stinky queue". Nothing like seeing 40 people all from the same server when you zone into AV. 🙂

If the alliance play defense wins can take as long as 20-25 minutes but if they race we've won in as little as 8 minutes before.

I personally prefer WSG but we have too much interest from guildies that don't normally PvP, and we want to include everyone, so we've been doing AV lately.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: skace


Oh and level 60 tier3'd gear is about as broken in battlegrounds as level 29 twinks. .

pfft im not broken

unless you mean killing everyone i see is broken

😛

when i want to i can roll with 5300 unbuffed HP and ~1100 AP, fun times as a hemo rogue

 

[wheresmybacon]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: skace


Oh and level 60 tier3'd gear is about as broken in battlegrounds as level 29 twinks. .

pfft im not broken

unless you mean killing everyone i see is broken

😛

when i want to i can roll with 5300 unbuffed HP and ~1100 AP, fun times as a hemo rogue

That's just nuts for a rogue. Do you wield Servo Arms? Hemo + T3 + dual Servo Arms = win*awesome

We ran into a T3 guild in WSG (we're mostly tier1 + BG/Rank epics) and let's just say trying to bring down their protection specced warrior who was in full Dreadnaught was comical. Add to that they have healers that never run out of mana, paladins that can seemingly survive being sucked through a black hole, and 2 rogues with Kingsfall (no more needs to be said there). It took them 30 minutes to beat us but they finally did.

Good times. Mucho laughing on vent at how tough they were.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: hungfarover

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: skace


Oh and level 60 tier3'd gear is about as broken in battlegrounds as level 29 twinks. .

pfft im not broken

unless you mean killing everyone i see is broken

😛

when i want to i can roll with 5300 unbuffed HP and ~1100 AP, fun times as a hemo rogue

That's just nuts for a rogue. Do you wield Servo Arms? Hemo + T3 + dual Servo Arms = win*awesome

We ran into a T3 guild in WSG (we're mostly tier1 + BG/Rank epics) and let's just say trying to bring down their protection specced warrior who was in full Dreadnaught was comical. Add to that they have healers that never run out of mana, paladins that can seemingly survive being sucked through a black hole, and 2 rogues with Kingsfall (no more needs to be said there). It took them 30 minutes to beat us but they finally did.

Good times. Mucho laughing on vent at how tough they were.

nah we havent had a servo drop in a while, possibily tonight, i use teh GM weps, i hit GMN a long ass time ago and they have been pretty pimp for me, ill get a servo or gressel soon enough

 

[Aikouka]

Ohhh last night I had a load of fun. I helped my brother and friend in Zul'Farrak on my mage (I had the mallet where both of them didn't). Then, my brother was all "WSG is fast, I'll queue for that!", so I told him to group queue it in case the queue was short.

Now, ... number one... Alliance and short queue never belong in the same sentence without a sort of negation 😉. But I spent awhile messing with my bags anyway, so I lasted long enough to get into WSG and AB on my mage.

Now, I should say that my mage hit 60 and never really got any great gear at that point. I kind of got tired of playing him every single day and once 2.01 came out, I switched back to my long-forgotten Rogue and began to PVP on him. So, the only PVP my mage ever saw was AV and that was mainly to do the AV quests.

Wow, I can tell you that I got owned pretty hardcore on the mage 😛. Having only 2400 hp, having a fire spec and trying to kill a warrior that charged me... not gunna work, Charlie! I did actually do pretty decent overall, but this leads me to a conundrum. Who do I want to play as?

AV weekend is coming up (a time where Alliance can get decent honor) and I've been pondering getting a second GM Dagger for my rogue. Although, I'm not sure it's really worthwhile as off-hand damage is halved anyway and all it provides stat-wise over Fang of the Faceless is +7 stamina. I'd have to run the numbers, but I predict I'd only see maybe 600 crits vs 500 crits... not sure that's worth the week to two weeks of play just to get another GM dagger. The only other PVP items I was going to get on my rogue are the AB cape ( Cloak of the Honor Guard ) which is really only a minor improvement, but I could use the stam and Don Julio's Ring (I never really PVP'd on my rogue so he never got past friendly in AV).

My mage, however, has some really bad gear. He still uses Robe of Power, Staff of Jordan and Dreamweave Gloves. He does have the Eye of Flame (+150 mana) and Abyssal Cloth leggings (+150 mana). I was planning on getting the crit belt and crit gloves (I have a lot of the mats to get them), but now the AB belt may be a better choice as it's easier to get than it used to be.

Hmm I think I've almost convinced myself to finish out my rogue (cloak + ring + mount) and then get my mage some nice gear 🙂. Any thoughts?

 

[pontifex]

got another rant now...

the alliance in the 20-29 WSG just sit and camp their flag. they don't even bother trying to take the horde flag, or if they do, its a really piss poor attempt. Apparently they are doing this to farm honor. fvcking bs.

 

[Aikouka]

Originally posted by: pontifex
got another rant now...

the alliance in the 20-29 WSG just sit and camp their flag. they don't even bother trying to take the horde flag, or if they do, its a really piss poor attempt. Apparently they are doing this to farm honor. fvcking bs.

Yeah, turtling happens a lot, but if you bring a big enough hammer, then you can always crack the shell 😉.

Most the time when Alliance farm honor, they farm it on the battlefield, not in Silverwing Hold. It's actually hard for some classes to easily fight in SH and most people are too succeptable to AoE.

One of the best tactics I can think of is:

Storm the base with 7 people. Send one AoE person (note, positionable AoE such as Blizzard or Rain of Fire, not fixed AoE like Arcane Explosion or Hellfire) to 2nd level above their flag room. Send two mages and a priest in the front ramp. Both mages will head toward the flag, one will attempt to AoE the people standing in front of it (a lot of people tend to stand in front of the flag in the center of the room). The first mage will run up to the flag as a buffer.. he will most likely be frozen by a freezing trap. The second mage will actually grab the flag while the priest should unfreeze (dispel magic) the ice trap'd mage if frozen. You'll want to have a warrior or hunter or something come in through the GY-side door and help to intercept (not literally) anyone that may attempt to follow the mage through the door.

Once the mage gets through the door, you can pass it off to a warrior or something if you'd rather do that. The mage; however, will get around faster with Blink since druids don't have Travel Form until 30... so unless you have a Druid with 2/2 Feline Swiftness, it's not worth worrying about them.

So, essentially you got people attacking from above, you have two mages, one will actually carry the flag and the other AoEs, takes damage from evil Alliance and catches the trap (if it exists).

I'd say to leave rogues in your flag room. They do a good job at keeping things there 😛.

EDIT: I ran some numbers on FOTF vs GM Dirk in the OH.

AVERAGE VALUE DIFFERENCE

FOTF OH Ave: 94.5 / 2 = 47.25
GM OH Ave: 119 / 2 = 59.5
Diff: 12.25

(((damage * Poisoned Mutilate Bonus) * Opportunity Bonus) * (Critical Strike + Lethality Bonus))

(((12.25 * 1.5) * 1.2) * 2.3) = 50

WEAPON LOW AND HIGH DIFFERENCE

FOTF Low/High vs GM Low/High = 29 - 20
Low/High Off-Hand = 14.5 - 10

(((14.5 * 1.5) * 1.2) * 2.3) = 60.03
(((10 * 1.5) * 1.2) * 2.3) = 41.4

WEAPON DAMAGE DIFFERENCE

FOTF: 613.755 + FW = 675.1305
GMD: 664.47 + FW = 730.917

As you can see, I will only see about 50 damage before any mitigation on a crit. 50 damage for 2 weeks worth of work... I don't think that's a very good idea.

 

[Modular]

I drop my gold on your twink-a-link with a DAOC. Mezz to the AE and stun to the disease of the 5-man WoW. I get a T3 level 29 AB/WSG on my level 60 tier 3D gear. I hated it most when the azeroth PUG'd to R10 on my priest and I burnt out, giving up right there. If it weren't for my druid friend I would have to have used my initial attacks and a moonfire. That would be disasterous 😕

 

[Robor]

I read this thread and I can't help but think of the Southpark WoW episode. 😛

 

[CKent]

Originally posted by: Robor
I read this thread and I can't help but think of the Southpark WoW episode. 😛

Which you saw because you were vegging in front of a TV instead of a monitor. Difference? 😉

 

[Aikouka]

Ugh, I sat there watching that episode mentioning the errors in it 😛.

Although, I talked to Tristanmon and he said they tried to keep it as close to accurate as possible 😛. But Matt Stone and Trey Parker don't play WoW, so I guess they did a decent job.