wow! Fundamentalist Islamic Forums

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: LordSegan
As a side note Moonbeam.

You are clearly a person who is fairly well educated. You are clearly a person with "progressive" views. (From what I have seen).

I value much of what you say. However, you often jump into the middle of a discussion and attempt to take a fairly "practical" discussion and turn it into a convoluted philosophical argument. I urge you to look at your OWN psychological motivations for this. Not ALL things in life have to be difficult and complex.

Certainly a discussion of a Muslim forum can start at some basic level like "I saw a Muslim forum" and eventually turn into a huge theological/political/sociological/philosophical debate.

Sometimes, however, it is enough to say, "Hm cool" or "hmm I don't like that" and just move on...

It is that way with Moonbeam. Everything is simplitically complex to him (if that makes sense ). I wonder if he questions himself as much as he asks others to question themselves?

 

[Deleted member 4644]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: LordSegan
As a side note Moonbeam.

You are clearly a person who is fairly well educated. You are clearly a person with "progressive" views. (From what I have seen).

I value much of what you say. However, you often jump into the middle of a discussion and attempt to take a fairly "practical" discussion and turn it into a convoluted philosophical argument. I urge you to look at your OWN psychological motivations for this. Not ALL things in life have to be difficult and complex.

Certainly a discussion of a Muslim forum can start at some basic level like "I saw a Muslim forum" and eventually turn into a huge theological/political/sociological/philosophical debate.

Sometimes, however, it is enough to say, "Hm cool" or "hmm I don't like that" and just move on...

It is that way with Moonbeam. Everything is simplitically complex to him (if that makes sense ). I wonder if he questions himself as much as he asks others to question themselves?

Oh yea, I know.. I know, Ive been on these forums longer than Moon has.. heh.. sometimes I forget though

 

[Drift3r]

Actually that was quite instresting since not every poster there was a exremist fundi.

 

[Moonbeam]

I am worried about people who say the follow: (I will paraphrase) "Im sad to live in a suburb of American because it makes it hard for me to join my fellow Muslims in the war against the infidels" Or another who said "I have my AK47 ready".

They could be dangerous, no?

You, and I, and every American (and citizen of the world) need protection from people who think like these people do. Im not saying I don't like Muslims. I'm not saying that there is not value in discussing even the most extreme beliefs. I AM saying that I have a huge problem with people who value violence as an option-- a first option even.

Yeah, so looking down your nose and ranting about how stupid they are is going to help? (Early posters in the thread)

These people are violent people, based on what I have seen on their forum. When I say "these people" I mean the twenty or so I read, not all Muslims, or even all the people on the forum.

"Resist not evil"

If you want to defend someone who has his AK47 ready, fine, you do that. I will not.

You're going to make sure that the notion that I'm defending them is going to stick in your craw even though I said it wasn't so, I guess, because it strengthens your moral indignation, right?

I want to make another thing clear, I dont HATE them. I don't even really hate Usama. I feel sorry for them yes. I think they are misguided, yes. I would shoot them if I had to in order to save people I cared about, yes. I understand that IN THEIR VIEW, Americans are hurting people they care about. I understand that they are angry.

You need to ask yourself why you use such language, then, as horrible monsters for people you don't hate. You should know also, that I have a long experience with people reporting feeling one thing and radiating something else entirely. Self knowledge isn't a universal gift. My original comments were directed at people inflating their own egos by putting others down.

I would be happy to get in a room with them and discuss the situation and work toward some sort of agreement.

They have a forum room, right?

But I don't LIKE their views, and I have that right. And, I don't need you to protect me.

Hehe, "Now it's I don't like their views." Do you maybe 'hate' their views. Do they remind you of a part of yourself you don't like, maybe a way you used to act as a kid? And besides, I protect who I want. I'm awful that way.

Lastly, Id like to point out that I am not familiar with the saying "Father forgive them for they know not...." "

"Father forgive them for they know not what they do" Spoken by Jesus to his crucifiers.

Oh and also, I don't believe in Karma. And, as an absolute final note, I am extremely comfortable and aware of my psychological problems, strengths, and state. I'm not perfect, but I'm no bigot and I'm no hater.

Dang, it's bad karma not to believe in Karma. You know how many turns you can make before you can even get far enough along to see that simple fact. Karma's just a term for repetition of unconscious behaviors because they remain unconscious and therefore unavailable to conscious choice. Real strength allows you to be weak, to see how bad you feel. The truth is not as you thought. That doesn't make you bad. I feel your grab for the good and I like it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: LordSegan
As a side note Moonbeam.

You are clearly a person who is fairly well educated. You are clearly a person with "progressive" views. (From what I have seen).

I value much of what you say. However, you often jump into the middle of a discussion and attempt to take a fairly "practical" discussion and turn it into a convoluted philosophical argument. I urge you to look at your OWN psychological motivations for this. Not ALL things in life have to be difficult and complex.

Certainly a discussion of a Muslim forum can start at some basic level like "I saw a Muslim forum" and eventually turn into a huge theological/political/sociological/philosophical debate.

Sometimes, however, it is enough to say, "Hm cool" or "hmm I don't like that" and just move on...

It is that way with Moonbeam. Everything is simplitically complex to him (if that makes sense ). I wonder if he questions himself as much as he asks others to question themselves?

Are you kidding, and drive myself nuts. Yeah right. I ain't seen nothing bad in anybody I ain't seen in myself. I know you by knowing me. I'm the Monster of the Id.

 

[Moonbeam]

Heart Of Gold
I want to live,
I want to give
I've been a miner for a heart of gold.
All these expressions I never give
That keep me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.

I want to live,
I want to give
I've been a miner for a heart of gold.
All these expressions I never give
That keep me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.
Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.

I've been to Hollywood
I've been to Redwood
I crossed the ocean for a heart of gold
I've been in my mind, it's such a fine line
That keeps me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.
Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.

Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
Been a miner for a heart of gold.
Crossed the ocean for a heart of gold
Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.

Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
Been a miner for a heart of gold.
Crossed the ocean for a heart of gold
Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
Been a miner for a heart of gold.
Crossed the ocean for a heart of gold
Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
Been a miner for a heart of gold.
Crossed the ocean for a heart of gold

Keeps me searching for a heart of gold
And I'm getting old.

 

[Brie]

Originally posted by: LordSegan
Moonbeam, normally I agree with you, but this time I have to say that your view on this issue appears to be retarded.

Many of the people on the muslim forum are HORRIBLE monsters who have been perverted by an extreme form of religion.

They are not worthy of your protection.

I do believe that they feel that we are the "HORRIBLE monsters" who have an "extreme form of religion." What makes you right?? Not to mention...who gave you or anyone the right to label one's religion as extreme and thus infer that somehow that is bad??

Did you actually read the posts?? I could identify with many posts and and really dont consider many posters on that forum to be "extreme" by your standard. And i challenge anyone in this forum to cite sources from that forum who make an "extreme" statement that is not even questioned. I would say that the forum in question is not much different than ours...different people same views...

 

[Brie]

My personal favorite post...

Iraqi Wmd Evidence Recovered !, Real deal !!!

Wow how extreme...I can believe those crazy muslems...My neocon instinct tells me that we need to bomb the heck out of these people

 

[LunarRay]

Ah.. the enviornment and the thought... sitting in our bath tub we relax and feel soothed by the water... but, on the ocean... ?

We all see out a lot easier than see in... our eyes ain't made to look in are they... we have to wonder about in and hardly ever wonder about out.. cuz we know... we know we're right because they ain't.. right. Maybe both are right and only one is stronger.. sorta like the USSR... a stalemate of who was right and who was wrong.. we won so we're right. glad for that.. now I feel soothed by the ocean..

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Ah.. the enviornment and the thought... sitting in our bath tub we relax and feel soothed by the water... but, on the ocean... ?

We all see out a lot easier than see in... our eyes ain't made to look in are they... we have to wonder about in and hardly ever wonder about out.. cuz we know... we know we're right because they ain't.. right. Maybe both are right and only one is stronger.. sorta like the USSR... a stalemate of who was right and who was wrong.. we won so we're right. glad for that.. now I feel soothed by the ocean..

LunarRay, eh?

Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Moonbeams child.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Ah.. the enviornment and the thought... sitting in our bath tub we relax and feel soothed by the water... but, on the ocean... ?

We all see out a lot easier than see in... our eyes ain't made to look in are they... we have to wonder about in and hardly ever wonder about out.. cuz we know... we know we're right because they ain't.. right. Maybe both are right and only one is stronger.. sorta like the USSR... a stalemate of who was right and who was wrong.. we won so we're right. glad for that.. now I feel soothed by the ocean..

LunarRay, eh?

Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Moonbeams child.

He used to be HDJ1. But since his head was so far up.......

...in space he had to switch it.

CkG

 

[Moonbeam]

Brie, those bastards were making fun of us.
===========
Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Moonbeams child.

Repost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[LunarRay]

Are you calling me a baby moon? I've not hardly the mass to affect a ripple of ocean let alone the tide in the absence of The Moonbeam.. I'm but a chip off the ole block.. you say... ah... the gravity of the situation has me spinning..

CAD... be nice.. but, well... ok be CAD...

 

[AnImuS]

my favorite statement:

pakmuslim: "When we nuke your ass then maybe you will think differnet......U Coward vultures only attack the people u weaken by sanctions then like a vulture attack the dying carcass....u happy u won against Iraq and Afgahnistan.....We have a Good Navy.....Modern Jets....and Nuclear Missiles.....America will think 20 times before attacking us...

we have our ally China with us......Take North Korea's example the *beep* coward United Snakes doesn;t attack anyone who can fight back.....America has had military sanctions on Pakistan since I dunno how long and we still have Nuclear Bombs.....Medium Range missiles....Modern Jet Fighters...Our own Jet Fighter whose development is almost complete....a good Navy..
In your face America. Your sanctions only make us stronger more determined and self reliant ! "

can you feel the love!

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Are you calling me a baby moon? I've not hardly the mass to affect a ripple of ocean let alone the tide in the absence of The Moonbeam.. I'm but a chip off the ole block.. you say... ah... the gravity of the situation has me spinning..

CAD... be nice.. but, well... ok be CAD...

Come on now. LunarRay...MoonBeam. The resemblance is far to obvious to hide. Perhaps merely admire him so much you took your name after him? But it is tough to deem it a mere coincidence.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: AnImuS
my favorite statement:

pakmuslim: "When we nuke your ass then maybe you will think differnet......U Coward vultures only attack the people u weaken by sanctions then like a vulture attack the dying carcass....u happy u won against Iraq and Afgahnistan.....We have a Good Navy.....Modern Jets....and Nuclear Missiles.....America will think 20 times before attacking us...

we have our ally China with us......Take North Korea's example the *beep* coward United Snakes doesn;t attack anyone who can fight back.....America has had military sanctions on Pakistan since I dunno how long and we still have Nuclear Bombs.....Medium Range missiles....Modern Jet Fighters...Our own Jet Fighter whose development is almost complete....a good Navy..
In your face America. Your sanctions only make us stronger more determined and self reliant ! "

can you feel the love!

Sounds like your typical flag waving zealot.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: datalink7

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Are you calling me a baby moon? I've not hardly the mass to affect a ripple of ocean let alone the tide in the absence of The Moonbeam.. I'm but a chip off the ole block.. you say... ah... the gravity of the situation has me spinning..

CAD... be nice.. but, well... ok be CAD...

Come on now. LunarRay...MoonBeam. The resemblance is far to obvious to hide. Perhaps merely admire him so much you took your name after him? But it is tough to deem it a mere coincidence.

We share the same celestial sphere so to speak. Who is hiding anything... I openly state Moonbeam has the greatest grasp on reality I met since he stole my binky in the crib...

 

[Moonbeam]

But you took my rubber duckies.

 

[Brie]

Originally posted by: AnImuS
my favorite statement:

pakmuslim: "When we nuke your ass then maybe you will think differnet......U Coward vultures only attack the people u weaken by sanctions then like a vulture attack the dying carcass....u happy u won against Iraq and Afgahnistan.....We have a Good Navy.....Modern Jets....and Nuclear Missiles.....America will think 20 times before attacking us...

we have our ally China with us......Take North Korea's example the *beep* coward United Snakes doesn;t attack anyone who can fight back.....America has had military sanctions on Pakistan since I dunno how long and we still have Nuclear Bombs.....Medium Range missiles....Modern Jet Fighters...Our own Jet Fighter whose development is almost complete....a good Navy..
In your face America. Your sanctions only make us stronger more determined and self reliant ! "

can you feel the love!

Ok ill bite...How is this any different than our forum. The only thing that they understimate is our military strength and resolve. I do also believe that another superpower once placed sanctions on us which only made us (America) stronger. We also nuked Japan and they felt differently about us. Whats your point...we have warhawks also... Although, AnImuS, the second post does make a very convincing case for our war in Iraq. The poster claims what I have been arguing for a long time. America has a strong military which could defeat *probably* any nation on earth. What we need is a real CONSISTANT policy in the Middle East. In 200X what is going to happen when we reverse our policy in the Middle East. What are we the military to do...all of the bombs in the world wont solve the problem since we do not understand the problem to begin with.

 

[LunarRay]

Brie,
As you no doubt know, a diplomat assumes the other side has an opinion consistent with their own best interest and philosophy and that the objective is to come to an understanding where each side benefits not fully at the expense of the other side but, in conjunction with the other side. What they and we on this forum don't seem to fully grasp is this notion that other folks are other folks. We only see our own perspective and anything contrary to this vision is foreign and wrong. A dialog along those lines quickly denigrates into a peepee contest of closed minds and polarized views.

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: LordSegan
Moonbeam, normally I agree with you, but this time I have to say that your view on this issue appears to be retarded.

Many of the people on the muslim forum are HORRIBLE monsters who have been perverted by an extreme form of religion.

They are not worthy of your protection.

I am not interested in protecting them, LordSegam. I'm interested in protecting you, from your own arrogance and certainty. Remember somebody saying, Father forgive them for they know not...." Those people were horrible too. Hate is the mind killer, remember? To hate them is to hate that part of yourself that's like them. To hate a part of yourself is to make sure you never see you're that part. To be blind to a part of yourself sticks you to the karmic wheel. Hate nothing so you can forgive yourself.

The Force is strong in this one Obi Wan

 

[Brie]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Brie,
As you no doubt know, a diplomat assumes the other side has an opinion consistent with their own best interest and philosophy and that the objective is to come to an understanding where each side benefits not fully at the expense of the other side but, in conjunction with the other side. What they and we on this forum don't seem to fully grasp is this notion that other folks are other folks. We only see our own perspective and anything contrary to this vision is foreign and wrong. A dialog along those lines quickly denigrates into a peepee contest of closed minds and polarized views.

I think that at least we are working towards a better point. I was delighted to see Nash finally win the Nobel Prize in 94. This signifies to me a new generation of ideas to solve some of the new (mostly old) problems we will face.

Translation for all movie goers: Isreal is not the blonde.

Compromise is defiantly part of the solution but I feel that we can compromise without violating out values and loyalties. But in order to compromise one must at least attempt to understand.

 

[SnowyEnigma]

A little thought I'd like to share with them.

 

[LocutusX]

Originally posted by: SnowyEnigma
A little thought I'd like to share with them.

Why waste your time? It's clear they have more pressing matters on their mind... such as converting the entire populace of Earth to Islam.

 

[BOBDN]

Originally posted by: etech
Looks like some interesting discussion might be had there.

One caveat though, most of the Arab forums I have been on banned anyone that had a dissenting view rather quickly.

If conservative warmongers express themselves the same way on their forums as you do here it's little wonder they ban you.

Oh, and I'd like to see proof you've been banned. Or is it just another lie to add to the ever growing list?