Wow. Bitcoin is almost $1,500

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njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,315
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?

Nobody dictates a value to Bitcoin. A collective global market does, much like Forex really.
Unlike Forex, governments and central banks can't control it. I'm going to use an example outside of Forex: if the central banks couldn't create (out of thin air) 250 ounces of paper silver for every real ounce of silver, you'd probably see the same types of run ups happening on it as well. Because commodities like that are only supposed to hedge inflation, which at the reported 2-3%, is either a blatant lie, or... as in the RE market, we are effected by foreign markets where shit is really broken. Otherwise why create so many paper contracts? In crypto, you cannot do this. Once the rules are in place, they remain in place, so long as the network agrees upon on them. Taking over a major crypto like Bitcoin, or heck... even Dogecoin, is extremely expensive and not guaranteed to work out for the attacking party's own benefit.

I at least had the foresight to see that Bitcoin wouldn't really be pegged against the USD, but against a non-existent free global currency.
 
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Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
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Thought I was crazy when I bought some at a little under 4k, now kicking myself for not buying more at the time.
Crazy like a fox! :) can't dwell on the what-ifs... Just enjoy the (vertical) ride with what you got!

Unlike Forex, governments and central banks can't control it. I'm going to use an example outside of Forex: if the central banks couldn't create (out of thin air) 250 ounces of paper silver for every real ounce of silver, you'd probably see the same types of run ups happening on it as well. Because commodities like that are only supposed to hedge inflation, which at the reported 2-3%, is either a blatant lie, or... as in the RE market, we are effected by foreign markets where shit is really broken. Otherwise why create so many paper contracts? In crypto, you cannot do this. Once the rules are in place, they remain in place, so long as the network agrees upon on them. Taking over a major crypto like Bitcoin, or heck... even Dogecoin, is extremely expensive and not guaranteed to work out for the attacking party's own benefit.

I at least had the foresight to see that Bitcoin wouldn't really be pegged against the USD, but against a non-existent free global currency.
Agree on the central banks controlling Forex, it was their exclusivity to begin with, it was opened to the public, but that wasn't the original intent. I was just trying to compare something similar.

Gold & silver was made inflationary through papers saying they are gold & silver and banks bought in, because it was massively to their advantage to do so. I expect countries where cryptocurrencies go against the wishes of the 1% to have a fiscal battle on their hands and try to make it illegal, although outside those countries the value of their currency will accelerate their drop in value against Bitcoin, and by extension other currencies outside the control of banks within even the Forex cartel.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
66,260
21,970
136
i still don't get it
Bitcoin's value is based on pure speculation and is therefore the Platonic form of the perfect currency. Government or central bank issued currencies are corrupted as central banks manipulate these currencies to support ulterior objectives like keeping the economy from crashing. Since we've had purely fiat currencies for more than four decades now, I don't really understand the attempts to link the values of these currencies back to gold or silver. Unless one is a gold bug, the value of gold is irrelevant to the value of a currency.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I think the key difference here is that gold and silver always had an inherent value attached to them. It moved/moves yes, but not at huge rates in small amounts of time (even way back in the way back). What you have here is a 'currency' that moves one way or the other in such large increments, timing is of the utmost importance if you actually want to use it as currency. Until it is mostly 'flat' it won't be worth any more than speculative except to the extremely shady or the extremely hyped.

Also, when the zombie apocalypse comes and there is no electricity, gold will most likely still be worth something since it is tangible, while bitcoin and the like will be useless. Let's not forget that in this day 'digital' is deemed of value when in reality it gives you nothing, whereas actual tangible items will retain some sort of value no matter what. The key difference here is that sure the dollar is pretty much worthless in reality currently, but it didn't start out that way, it was backed by gold. While not exactly true these days, it is still insured to a degree, which is more than what BTC is which is not backed by anything.

Also, I completely do not believe it isn't exploitable. Give it time.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
109,352
27,033
146
I think the key difference here is that gold and silver always had an inherent value attached to them. It moved/moves yes, but not at huge rates in small amounts of time (even way back in the way back). What you have here is a 'currency' that moves one way or the other in such large increments, timing is of the utmost importance if you actually want to use it as currency. Until it is mostly 'flat' it won't be worth any more than speculative except to the extremely shady or the extremely hyped.

Also, when the zombie apocalypse comes and there is no electricity, gold will most likely still be worth something since it is tangible, while bitcoin and the like will be useless. Let's not forget that in this day 'digital' is deemed of value when in reality it gives you nothing, whereas actual tangible items will retain some sort of value no matter what. The key difference here is that sure the dollar is pretty much worthless in reality currently, but it didn't start out that way, it was backed by gold. While not exactly true these days, it is still insured to a degree, which is more than what BTC is which is not backed by anything.

Also, I completely do not believe it isn't exploitable. Give it time.
why would gold be valuable, if even useful during the zombie/nuclear apocalypse? what can the average person do with gold that will ensure their survival in a world with limited potable water, food, protection, and where the only source of entertainment is the moaning screams of orphans in the distance, exposed and unprotected, as they slowly succumb to starvation, radiation poisoning that flakes their skin away and turns their organs into bloody masses, as their friends eat away at their very limbs? Even today, gold is useful only as a conductor, right? How will that be an essential use and more importantly, how practical would it be to actually smelt, shape, and deploy gold in that use?

how does gold help in that reality? I'd think water, food, bullets would hold actual value. Who is willing to be weighted down by gold when trying to flee the zombies that breach your perimeter? Is your first thought in that situation to carry your gold with you, and to return later and reclaim it when your hovel is now overrun by zombies? I am not sure the gold will serve you well in that situation. :p
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
why would gold be valuable, if even useful during the zombie/nuclear apocalypse? what can the average person do with gold that will ensure their survival in a world with limited potable water, food, protection, and where the only source of entertainment is the moaning screams of orphans in the distance, exposed and unprotected, as they slowly succumb to starvation, radiation poisoning that flakes their skin away and turns their organs into bloody masses, as their friends eat away at their very limbs? Even today, gold is useful only as a conductor, right? How will that be an essential use and more importantly, how practical would it be to actually smelt, shape, and deploy gold in that use?

how does gold help in that reality? I'd think water, food, bullets would hold actual value. Who is willing to be weighted down by gold when trying to flee the zombies that breach your perimeter? Is your first thought in that situation to carry your gold with you, and to return later and reclaim it when your hovel is now overrun by zombies? I am not sure the gold will serve you well in that situation. :p
Zombie Apocalypse was just a generic 'apocalyptic' scenario where things go backwards. Because gold has uses besides 'money'. It's used and would potentially continue to be used. I'm not saying it would be AS valuable, but most likely would still be used in bartering to a degree. You are correct that all those things in the context would most likely be more sought after but keep in mind gold was valuable long before electricity. Bitcoin on the other hand...

Granted, I don't expect any of this to happen in my lifetime so it is most likely a moot point.
 
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Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
273
81
Gold versus Bitcoin usefulness...

... horses have more use than cars if society breaks down and there's no more gas.

People should be buying horses, not cars cause they "could" be more useful? o_O
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
Gold versus Bitcoin usefulness...

... horses have more use than cars if society breaks down and there's no more gas.

People should be buying horses, not cars cause they "could" be more useful? o_O
While I get what you are trying to say, my point was more around tangible goods rather than something that is digital only. Both horses and cars would be valuable for one thing or another in some form because cars can be used for other things even if there is no gas.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
109,352
27,033
146
Gold versus Bitcoin usefulness...

... horses have more use than cars if society breaks down and there's no more gas.

People should be buying horses, not cars cause they "could" be more useful? o_O
how are you going to transfer bitcoins if society breaks down? I mean, the fucking things don't even exist outside of electrons fired over copper wire and a T4 connection.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
how are you going to transfer bitcoins if society breaks down? I mean, the fucking things don't even exist outside of electrons fired over copper wire and a T4 connection.
its pretty insane to me that people are spending so much money on them
The only reason people are doing it is because they dont want to miss the easy money boat.

The IRS is going to have a heyday filing cases against bitcoin earners that failed to report.
 
May 11, 2008
18,359
843
126
I had seen this some time ago.
This guy has in Iceland a mining farm.
He has several walls of graphic cards and one wall has around 10.000 graphic cards.
Combined computation power is according to the youtube movie more than any super computer.
He makes a lot of money it seems , he has to because he has an electric bill of more than 1.000.000 euros (1.189.150 dollars) a month.

 
May 11, 2008
18,359
843
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Those mining operations always makes me wonder if they not secretly use people who mine to decode something that needs to stay a secret.
Like realtime breaking of commonly used encryptions that are deemed save because the calculation power is not available for the regular man.
Hiding it in mining calculations.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,824
54
91
www.bing.com
Those mining operations always makes me wonder if they not secretly use people who mine to decode something that needs to stay a secret.
Like realtime breaking of commonly used encryptions that are deemed save because the calculation power is not available for the regular man.
Hiding it in mining calculations.
It would be really hard to control that. First, BTC is open source. 2nd, the "target" changes with every block. IIRC, a block is just a set number of transactions. 3rd, they aren't actually decoding anything, they are generating hashes that match something with the block being committed, which at this level of difficulty, aren't even full hashes.
 
May 11, 2008
18,359
843
126
It would be really hard to control that. First, BTC is open source. 2nd, the "target" changes with every block. IIRC, a block is just a set number of transactions. 3rd, they aren't actually decoding anything, they are generating hashes that match something with the block being committed, which at this level of difficulty, aren't even full hashes.
It would be a great idea for a movie where a group of mathematicians with an IQ of > 170 would develop a machine learning program that is great at converting encrypted data and adding that data in a non suspicious way into cryptocurrency.
 

Yakk

Golden Member
May 28, 2016
1,574
273
81
how are you going to transfer bitcoins if society breaks down? I mean, the fucking things don't even exist outside of electrons fired over copper wire and a T4 connection.
How would that be different from the stock markets around the world? Back to B&T FTW! (Barter & Trade)

Tax is half a chicken & 3 tomatoes from your cart to let you through the gates.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,824
54
91
www.bing.com
It would be a great idea for a movie where a group of mathematicians with an IQ of > 170 would develop a machine learning program that is great at converting encrypted data and adding that data in a non suspicious way into cryptocurrency.
Imagine trying to signal a message to someone using the closing price of the DOW as the mechanism to seed a hash algorithm. You'd have to buy/sell every day to try and force it to come out to an exact predetermined number. If you were off by a penny, the message is indecipherable. But even if you have billions in reserve, there's no way you could succeed even a small percentage of the time, even a small number of transactions outside of your control would make the effort pointless. That's what it would be like trying to "hijack" the BTC mining network.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,824
54
91
www.bing.com
how are you going to transfer bitcoins if society breaks down? I mean, the fucking things don't even exist outside of electrons fired over copper wire and a T4 connection.
Neither do the vast majority of dollars. In such a breakdown, our USD accounts are worthless too. Along with 401k's IRA, etc.
 
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