Wow. Bitcoin is almost $1,500

Page 89 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
100,007
3,033
126
Crypto is bad enough for the environment when mined on asics and gpus. Just imagine when people mindlessly click an opt in to allow it from their browser, or worse.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,031
4,978
126
The problem is that you can't really get a meaningful amount of crypto profits with just CPU mining, and GPU mining from a browser is likely going to cause problems for people with outdated video drivers.
Well, "meaningful crypto profits" in this scenario, would be on the order of cents, not dollars, but yeah, unless the coin in question was worth a quite a bit, a few minutes of CPU mining might not amount to much. (Though, for the website operator, if they did pool-mining with all of their visitors, maybe it would amount to something tangible?)

And I do agree with you about out-dated / non-compute-oriented video drivers, especially on OEM rigs, and laptops... gee, I didn't really consider the thermal issues with laptops with my proposal, just thinking of my super-powerful dual-GPU desktop.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,706
324
126
If it isn't Coinbase Pro, Binance, or maybe Poloniex, I don't touch them.
I was like, what the hell is Coinbase Pro? Then I searched and found that's the rebranded GDAX. Yeah, I'd agree.

Binance I feel is legit, but I'm not 100% on the security. A) I'm not exactly trustful of Chinese companies - not by default, but for a lot of security products especially, I try to avoid. This is entirely due to the fear of State Sponsored activity, not that the companies themselves are untrustworthy.

And don't forget that just recently Binance had a breach. That said, I'd largely agree here in the end when the real worry is safety of your overall investments. I didn't follow up on the recent breach but I'd suspect Binance to make customers right in the end if the funds aren't recovered. And otherwise I don't see likelihood of there being a long con or scam here.

Poloniex - agreed.


One to add: Gemini
But it isn't so much a fully featured exchange as it is a reputable entry and exit point. I've largely done my actual cashing or buying in there, then transfer out tokens. I don't have any kind of banking linked at any other exchange. Though I might still have Coinbase linked. I never ended up doing anything with GDAX/Coinbase Pro, at the time I preferred other platforms.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
15,738
4,699
136
The problem is that you can't really get a meaningful amount of crypto profits with just CPU mining, and GPU mining from a browser is likely going to cause problems for people with outdated video drivers.
Stuff like XMR is CPU-mineable. Rome would be an XMR beast. Heck 16c Zen2 would be beastly.

Binance I feel is legit, but I'm not 100% on the security.
They did suffer a breach, and I'm a bit bothered by that. Apparently it was a hot wallet or something. Anyway a few people lost a few million in crypto, and Binance said they'll cover the losses. So that's good. Compare that to when Bitfinex got hacked. Ha ha.

One to add: Gemini
I'm not so sure about them sometimes. I found them to be a pain in the arse to use. With GDAX/Coinbase Pro being out there, I didn't much see the point. Some folks like them, some folks don't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: destrekor

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,031
4,978
126
Stuff like XMR is CPU-mineable. Rome would be an XMR beast. Heck 16c Zen2 would be beastly.
So, in a near-future world out there, where the "entry-level" CPU is a Ryzen-family 6C/12T or i5-8400/9400(F), then CPU-mining might still be worth-while, if web-site operators had that option. I wasn't so wrong.

Edit: Of course, the numbers, if I get $0.10-$0.11 per 24hr period "mining" CNR or CN8 on my 6C/12T CPU (only really using 4 threads to mine, due to cache limitations and size), then what portion of that would a web-site operator get, if I only have the web site open for 5-10 minutes? (Of course, you know that Facebook is going to be all over this idea, when it's implemented, given the amount of time that people spend on Facebook.)
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
22,145
830
126
I'm also not sure if I want to give the Winklevoss twins even more money than they already have. They already made enough from suing Facebook, no?
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
22,145
830
126
mindlessly click an opt in to allow it from their browser
Sadly, most sites wouldn't even bother offering an opt-in. They would just start the mining engine in the background automatically.

Mining using something like Javascript in the browser is super inefficient, too. The Nimiq guys tried it, and found that it only mines crypto about 1/4th as quickly as a dedicated mining software program.
 
Last edited:

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,031
4,978
126
Mining using something like Javascript in the browser is super inefficient, too. The Nimiq guys tried it, and found that it only mines crypto about 1/4th as quickly as a dedicated mining software program.
That's why I proposed using the Netscape Plug-In API to map certain "crypto URLs" to plug-ins, and then the mining could happen in native code. (Yes, I know the eventual goal is to eliminate most plug-ins, due to security risk issues, but for now, it would work.)
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
15,738
4,699
136
Sadly, most sites wouldn't even bother offering an opt-in. They would just start the mining engine in the background automatically.
This has already happened, has it not?

Mining using something like Javascript in the browser is super inefficient, too. The Nimiq guys tried it, and found that it only mines crypto about 1/4th as quickly as a dedicated mining software program.
The trick would be to use WASM.
 

JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
26,072
588
126
Sadly, most sites wouldn't even bother offering an opt-in. They would just start the mining engine in the background automatically.

Mining using something like Javascript in the browser is super inefficient, too. The Nimiq guys tried it, and found that it only mines crypto about 1/4th as quickly as a dedicated mining software program.
would an antivirus program catch it and/or stop that?
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,706
324
126
would an antivirus program catch it and/or stop that?
Some have/do stop it, but I'm not sure how widespread that kind of built-in defense for AV suites truly is.

It may have become quite well developed in the past year or so, because I used to hear all about the browser mining but haven't seen much about it as of late. AV providers and ad-block software may have stepped up as they caught on to the trend and methods.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,706
324
126
I'm not so sure about them sometimes. I found them to be a pain in the arse to use. With GDAX/Coinbase Pro being out there, I didn't much see the point. Some folks like them, some folks don't.
I'm not sure how it is today, but I think it used to be the case that actual pricing transparency was a little off, essentially in a way that may have allowed Coinbase to skim more off the top like a Market Maker on steroids. They always priced fees and their own little profit into the main Coinbase exchange rates, and at the time I recall that carrying over to GDAX as well. So depending on your own personal volume and price targets, you might see significant-enough differences in exchange rates between GDAX, or USDT-based prices (that may have only been at other exchanges...), which would all differ from other places with strict USD rates based on the fiat dollar and not on the dollar peg. It always seemed that Gemini had consistent and favorable rates.

I'm also not sure if I want to give the Winklevoss twins even more money than they already have. They already made enough from suing Facebook, no?
Yeah I'm not really concerned about that angle. If they have a solid product, solid banking partnerships, and appear to have quality security practices, and above all is based in the USA, I'm happy with that. Yes Poloniex is American as well, and one of the big reasons I like them too.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
22,145
830
126
would an antivirus program catch it and/or stop that?
Some of the ad blockers already block crypto mining plugins, as does some antivirus software.

Hell... I had to tell Microsoft AV that my Ethereum desktop miner was legit years ago.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
22,145
830
126
I noticed that Coinbase is bribing people $10 to watch some videos about Stellar Lumens. I have no idea if they will catch on, but hey.... $10 is $10 :)
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
55,931
7,487
126
www.uovalor.com
I hate the fact that browsers even allow sites to just run arbitrary code like that. If they can mine crypto and have full access to your GPU(s) imagine what else they could do if they really wanted to. Actually I'm surprised the malicious crypto ones don't just load a Windows service on your machine so it keeps mining even once you get off the site.

That said, I could see some neat applications for web based mining if done with consent.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
48,031
4,978
126
You can be absolutely sure of getting a guaranteed profit and full return on your investment.
They are trusted and legit. I have made a lot of bitcoin from them.
Yeah, yeah, sure buddy. No legitimate investment opportunity would say that you are "sure" of "guaranteed profit", that I know of, anyways. Pretty-much any investment that I know of, involves SOME sort of risk, and no legitimate investment offering, would fail to mention that in a disclaimer.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,688
8
81
www.bing.com
I hate the fact that browsers even allow sites to just run arbitrary code like that. If they can mine crypto and have full access to your GPU(s) imagine what else they could do if they really wanted to. Actually I'm surprised the malicious crypto ones don't just load a Windows service on your machine so it keeps mining even once you get off the site.

That said, I could see some neat applications for web based mining if done with consent.
All javascript is "arbitrary code", and always has been. Browser sandboxing has been a thing for a long time. No, "arbitrary code" is not going to install a windows service.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
55,931
7,487
126
www.uovalor.com
All javascript is "arbitrary code", and always has been. Browser sandboxing has been a thing for a long time. No, "arbitrary code" is not going to install a windows service.
Never been a fan of the idea of javascript either, because of the fact that it's arbitrary code. Would not be so bad if it was strictly only to run stuff within the web page and only really affect formatting, but it's not. Clearly the sandboxing can be bypassed if they can access your GPU(s) to run code on it. I'm sure someone who knows what they're doing could easily do more malicious stuff. Kind of like when you land on a bad site and it starts loading crap in your machine and you get extra icons on your desktop.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
22,145
830
126
I noticed that Hexel shut down, so I lost my complimentary storefront for Coolcoin. I guess that you'll need to order your laser kitty t-shirts from me the old fashioned way via PM once you accumulate 1,000 of them :)
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,688
8
81
www.bing.com
....
Clearly the sandboxing can be bypassed if they can access your GPU(s) to run code on it.
...
It's called WebGL, and gave JavaScript access to the GPU. It is still very much sandboxed. You can disable WebGL if you really want to, in any browser.

Kind of like when you land on a bad site and it starts loading crap in your machine and you get extra icons on your desktop.
Sounds like you have much bigger problems than browser js.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY