Wow...12 whole Allies...wow

[BaliBabyDoc]

Poland never purchased F/A-18 aircraft.

My mistake it was 44 F-16C/D, 12 F-16A, and 4 F-16B.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

Poland never purchased F/A-18 aircraft.

My mistake it was 44 F-16C/D, 12 F-16A, and 4 F-16B.

So basically now Canada's airforce could be beaten 10 times over by Poland's.

 

[eakers]

our pm has said hes not going to wait for the un anymore.
i think we are with the us.

 

[UltraQuiet]

1)England - Good friend and ally.
2) Austrailia - Good friend and ally.
3) Italy - Always side with whoever is more powerful (WWI, and WWII) Haven't heard one way or the other
4) Turkey - Is getting 10 billion in aid from us and wants desperately to be considered 'European' The question might be "Do they want our money or entrance into the EU?"
5)Kuwait - Puppet govt. set up by us
6) Canada - Good friend and ally.
7) Iran - Any support would be minimal at best
9) Oman: I'd be surprised, but they are too weak to go against us i guess Troops are already there
10) Qatar: I'd be surprised, but they are too weak to go against us i guess Troops are already there
11 )U.A.E.: I'd be surprised, but they are too weak to go against us i guess Troops are already there
12) Israel: Good friend and ally as long as there interests are served.

You can add Bahrain and Djibouti where we already have troops and Japan , Pakistan and Yemen

 

[XZeroII]

12) Israel: Good friend and ally as long as there interests are served.

How do you get the "as long as their interests are served."?

 

[etech]

Hungary - Statement of Foreign Minister László Kovács on Iraq
Sept. 25, 2002

The worst scenario would be if the whole world just stood by, waiting for the day when Saddam Hussein, armed with weapons of mass destruction, would threaten the world.

According to Minister Kovács this is the least preferable option.

As far as the military solution is concerned, the best course of action would be to have it based on a Security Council resolution, but acting without a UN mandate is still more preferable than simply waiting for the tragic consequences of Saddam Hussein?s military buildup.

If the military action becomes unavoidable, Hungary, committed firmly to the war on terror and also as an ally of the U.S. and a member of NATO will know where to stand.

There has been no decision on military action. As President Bush said in New York to the UN General Assembly, the U.S. is now expecting a new Security Council resolution. Hungarian contribution to a military action against Iraq, therefore, is not on the agenda at this stage in exchanges between Hungarian and U.S. officials at various levels.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: eakers
our pm has said hes not going to wait for the un anymore.
i think we are with the us.

Here's what the old fart PM (prime minister) of Canada has done with all of this (as you can see I didn't vote Liberal last election). US starts sabre rattling, PM says "No way we're going without full UN backing." Some time later PM realizes that, hey, maybe some other countries will help out the US as well, especially England. Well he can't have that now can he? Caught with his pants down while other proactive countries say "UN or UN not we're with the US", and so he jumps on the band wagon like a good little boy.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: XZeroII

12) Israel: Good friend and ally as long as there interests are served.

How do you get the "as long as their interests are served."?

Very simply. They are the biggest "pushers" for this war anywhere outside of DC. They are convinced that Hussein being gone will improve their security. Therefore they support it because it serves their interests. (Good friend). On the other hand if we say something like "You need to disband X settlement or let Arafat go to some mtg. somewhere" ( we have done both) they tell us to stick it because it is not in their self interest. Not so good a friend. My point being is that I think that they look out for number 1 first, more so than any other country. JMO

 

[mboy]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer

Originally posted by: XZeroII

12) Israel: Good friend and ally as long as there interests are served.

How do you get the "as long as their interests are served."?

Very simply. They are the biggest "pushers" for this war anywhere outside of DC. They are convinced that Hussein being gone will improve their security. Therefore they support it because it serves their interests. (Good friend). On the other hand if we say something like "You need to disband X settlement or let Arafat go to some mtg. somewhere" ( we have done both) they tell us to stick it because it is not in their self interest. Not so good a friend. My point being is that I think that they look out for number 1 first, more so than any other country. JMO

They probably have to look out for # 1 first (all countries do anyway), because they are surrounded by countries that want to push them in to the ocean, NOT live side by side in ANY way!

Wel, I really don't see what the big deal is about a useles UN resolution. Their wasnt one when NATO (led by the US of course) Bombed Kosovo adn went after Milosivic. I really didnt see to much repercussions without UN backing there.

Bottom line is most of the other countries like France and Germany are jealous becasue they are not considered superpowers and they would never have the power to be able to do something like take on Hussein (notice I didnt say IRAQ) on their own.
Jealous, Jealous, Jealous is what it amounts too.

 

[MrsHoneybee]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
1)England - Good friend and ally.
2) Austrailia - Good friend and ally.
3) Italy - Always side with whoever is more powerful (WWI, and WWII) Haven't heard one way or the other
4) Turkey - Is getting 10 billion in aid from us and wants desperately to be considered 'European' The question might be "Do they want our money or entrance into the EU?"
5)Kuwait - Puppet govt. set up by us
6) Canada - Good friend and ally.
7) Iran - Any support would be minimal at best
9) Oman: I'd be surprised, but they are too weak to go against us i guess Troops are already there
10) Qatar: I'd be surprised, but they are too weak to go against us i guess Troops are already there
11 )U.A.E.: I'd be surprised, but they are too weak to go against us i guess Troops are already there
12) Israel: Good friend and ally as long as there interests are served.

You can add Bahrain and Djibouti where we already have troops and Japan , Pakistan and Yemen

I think Australia's close neighbour New Zealand may possibly join too.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Very simply. They are the biggest "pushers" for this war anywhere outside of DC. They are convinced that Hussein being gone will improve their security. Therefore they support it because it serves their interests. (Good friend). On the other hand if we say something like "You need to disband X settlement or let Arafat go to some mtg. somewhere" ( we have done both) they tell us to stick it because it is not in their self interest. Not so good a friend. My point being is that I think that they look out for number 1 first, more so than any other country. JMO

Dave is the Man . . . except you should say SHARON . . . not Israel. Israelis are much like most other citizens throughout the world who desire peaceful coexistence with their neighbors and harbor ill will towards few groups of people (at least not without legitimate reason).

They probably have to look out for # 1 first (all countries do anyway), because they are surrounded by countries that want to push them in to the ocean, NOT live side by side in ANY way!

The truth is far more complicated. The majority of Israelis support a Palestinian state and removal of settlements . . . curiously, a majority also supports harsh treatment of Palestinians during the intifada. These points of view are not mutually exclusive but they are impossible to achieve under Sharon (especially with Bush duplicity). The governments of Jordan and Egypt would be much friendlier with Israel if Israel was friendlier to the Palestinians. Syria will never be nice to Israel but most Syrians probably don't care.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Wow up to 12. I remember when we had just one really good friend who had the courage to attack Iran years ago. Yep, good old Rumsfeld himself shook his hand.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Wow up to 12. I remember when we had just one really good friend who had the courage to attack Iran years ago. Yep, good old Rumsfeld himself shook his hand.

Our war allies remind me of the studies/observations of bullying behaviors. People pick sides in conflicts all the time for reasons beyond what's right-or-wrong. France and Germany have not sided with Iraq. Germany is simply saying this is not worth fighting over and France says it's not worth fighting over . . . yet. Turkey isn't going to fight they will just allow US troops to deploy from within . . . for a price. Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman, UAE are not allies. They will not contribute a single soldier to this effort. Furthermore, try coming to America from Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, or UAE . . . I bet you would get a warm welcome. On the flip side, flying the Stars and Bars on many of our allies' home soil will be greeted with a bullet in the arse.

Blair is a good friend and ally to Bush but the Britons are not allies in this conflict. Australia before Bali was identical to the UK. Now I think it's more of a tossup but their citizens do question the quality of association between Iraq and international terrorists like Al Qaeda.

Canadians have a disposition similar to our European antagonists but their PM doesn't want to piss Bush off. Iran is not an ally they just won't shoot at American planes doing a flyover and will return soldiers to the US if they become distressed within its borders.

In the final analysis, we cannot rally support to depose one of the most despicable characters of the past 40 years. Some find it easy to conclude the rest of the world is either jealous or evil. I think the truth is that some are jealous but almost everyone questions the motives and the means. Even US citizens question the motives. Ultimately, we will find support not in the justifiable nature of this conflict but in the ability to force our will on others.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Dave is the Man . . . except you should say SHARON . . . not Israel. Israelis are much like most other citizens throughout the world who desire peaceful coexistence with their neighbors and harbor ill will towards few groups of people (at least not without legitimate reason).

In DaveLingo when you hold fair elections you get referred to as your country i.e. you elected him you live with him. (how many non Americans are saying that several times a day?) If you live in a dictatorship you get referred to by your leaders name (Saddam). This is to differentiate the responsible party.

Ultimately, we will find support not in the justifiable nature of this conflict but in the ability to force our will on others.

That depends on what your definition of justifiable is. There are countries we will have to force our will upon no matter what. Or pay them off.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

In DaveLingo when you hold fair elections you get referred to as your country i.e. you elected him you live with him. (how many non Americans are saying that several times a day?) If you live in a dictatorship you get referred to by your leaders name (Saddam). This is to differentiate the responsible party.

Yet the error in your ways . . . I will ignore fair elections . . . since often they are not . . . and just say in marginally democratic countries your tendency to identify heads of state (Blair/Bush) with the opinions of the people (UK/US) is not appropriate. It is true that we are stuck with Bush for a period no less than 2 years but saddling the American public with policies the majority of which disagree (economics, environment, foreign) does a great disservice to the populace.

An insidious component of armed conflict is the dehumanization of your adversary. Saddam does many bad things but many civilians and members of his military love their country enough to defend it from attack. They are patriots and will die for love of country and fellow citizen. The only way to justify killing such patriots is to associate them with their leader and his depravity.

Children going to school or random people in a Tel Aviv market probably have no sigificant association with the 5000 Israelis settling amongst 1.6 million Arabs in Gaza. They probably don't know those Israelis control 40% of the land and use a comparable amount of water. Regardless, the suicide bomber will strike at pacifist and ultra-radical Zionist alike.

Most surveys of common people in the Arab world show they dissociate US citizens from US policy . . . probably b/c they live in countries where the will of the public is often ignored by the theocrat, dictator, royals, or other form of oligarchy. Yeah we elected a twit and now we're getting what we deserved. It's a shame the rest of the world has to live (or die) with our mistake.

 

[ElFenix]

having the public approve of policies is all well and good until you realize that the average member of the public is an idiot. which of course is the major downfall of democracies.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: TallBill
63% of the people backing the war is a majority. Take that how you'd like it.

63% backing the war ONLY with the full support of the UN. That's different than 63% of Americans backing the war b/c Bush says so.

Actually the polls i have been hear it is phrased. 63% would prefer to have UN backing. I would prefer it as well, but if the UN cant support us, o well.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

having the public approve of policies is all well and good until you realize that the average member of the public is an idiot. which of course is the major downfall of democracies.

I don't think our republic is doing so hot considering the head of state is an idiot . . . voted for by a slim majority (technically an electoral college majority) of the voting population. Personally, I think the public is more ignorant than idiotic. Our system of education sux and we spend much of our capital on entertainment. We need a 100% estate tax and then provide real education (including travel to Asia, Europe, Africa)

 

[UltraQuiet]

I don't think our republic is doing so hot considering the head of state is an idiot . . . voted for by a slim majority (technically an electoral college majority) of the voting population.

Personally, I think the public is more ignorant than idiotic.
Agreed with some noted exceptions in the medical field.

Our system of education sux and we spend much of our capital on entertainment.
and dog food. I agree though. We need to spend less time worrying self esteem and more time on the 3 R's

We need a 100% estate tax and then provide real education (including travel to Asia, Europe, Africa)
Good God! What the hell are you talking about now?

 

[rufruf44]

Being wondering about this, even if US can force the UN to create a resolution to support military action against Iraq, will such resolution stand if China or France or Russia vetoed it? (each of them = permanent member & veto holder of the security council).
If it can't stand, then its pretty much decided there won't be a UN Resolution, regardless of the inspector's report.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
having the public approve of policies is all well and good until you realize that the average member of the public is an idiot. which of course is the major downfall of democracies.

sig worthy

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Chris A
Who cares?? Germany and France are still pissed that we told them we did not need them when we went into Afganistan.. Both of those places are throwing a stink like they are important and matter in world affairs... Hell France cant even pay their own soldiers wages...

Yet Germany has one of the largest military contingents in Afghanistan, weird eh?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Chris A
Who cares?? Germany and France are still pissed that we told them we did not need them when we went into Afganistan.. Both of those places are throwing a stink like they are important and matter in world affairs... Hell France cant even pay their own soldiers wages...

Yet Germany has one of the largest military contingents in Afghanistan, weird eh?

They do? How many are stationed there?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc

having the public approve of policies is all well and good until you realize that the average member of the public is an idiot. which of course is the major downfall of democracies.

I don't think our republic is doing so hot considering the head of state is an idiot . . . voted for by a slim majority (technically an electoral college majority) of the voting population. Personally, I think the public is more ignorant than idiotic. Our system of education sux and we spend much of our capital on entertainment. We need a 100% estate tax and then provide real education (including travel to Asia, Europe, Africa)

WE spend enough on education. WE just need to toss out the disruptors like other normal countries do, rather than try to give everyone a diploma.

 

[TNTrulez]

12v1 woot woot