Wounded British Soldiers Angrily Condem US Cowboy Pilots

[justint]

From the Guardian

 

[shiner]

Sad, but friendly fire happens. Those guys can be angry, but there is no reason to bring charges.

As for....

On the back of one of the engineers' vehicles there was a Union Jack.

"It's about 18 inches wide by about 12 inches. For him to fire his weapons I believe he had to look through his magnified optics. How he could not see that Union Jack I don't know."

They don't aim for the back of vehicles....especially ones with turrets.....they aim for the area where the turret meets the main body of the vehicle because that is the weakest point.

 

[SykoFreak]

Friendly fire is an unfortunate, inevitable part of war. I doubt it was as malicious as those soldiers made it out to be.

 

[HappyPuppy]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Sad, but friendly fire happens. Those guys can be angry, but there is no reason to bring charges.

As for....

On the back of one of the engineers' vehicles there was a Union Jack.

"It's about 18 inches wide by about 12 inches. For him to fire his weapons I believe he had to look through his magnified optics. How he could not see that Union Jack I don't know."

They don't aim for the back of vehicles....especially ones with turrets.....they aim for the area where the turret meets the main body of the vehicle because that is the weakest point.

Yes, it's sad but we need to quit killing ourselves.

 

[Morph]

Maliciousness, no. Incompetence, yes.

 

[Leon]

Friendly fire happens. Couple days ago, British troops killed their own in tank FF accident. But given that it's a Guardian with it's extreme anti-US views, I am not surprised that they didn't report it.

Leon

 

[Thraxen]

Couple days ago, British troops killed their own in tank FF accident. But given that it's a Guardian with it's extreme anti-US views, I am not surprised that they didn't report it.

Actually, they did. It's the very last line of the article.

 

[Leon]

It's the very last line of the article.

Of course.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: Leon

It's the very last line of the article.

Of course.

They did report it. I remember reading it elsewhere on that very paper.

No offence, but I'm kinda tired of any criticism of the US being called "anti-american". Sometimes people need to be criticized. It's the only way they get better. Those guys are on the frontline, we aren't. They are more qualified to make any statements about that pilot than we are.

It's not like we've never seen trigger happy pilots before. History is full of them.

 

[zer0burn]

if they didnt prosecute the american pilots for disobeying direct orders and dropping 500lb bombs on the Canadian forces in a known training area at a known scheduled time I doubt theyll be charged this time.

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: SykoFreak
Friendly fire is an unfortunate, inevitable part of war. I doubt it was as malicious as those soldiers made it out to be.

I don't think they thought it was malicious - I just think that they can't see anyway in which the pilot could have failed to see them as friendly - unless in their opinion he was incompetent or reckless.

Andy

 

[HappyNic]

Lance Corporal of Horse Steven Gerrard, speaking from his bed on the RFA Argus in the Gulf, said: "I can command my vehicle. I can keep it from being attacked. What I have not been trained to do is look over my shoulder to see whether an American is shooting at me."

He has every right to be piss as the pilot of the A-10, I know I would be too,, If the person the Pilot killed was a very close friend of mines, I would do everything in my power to make him sorry.

 

[TheCorm]

Originally posted by: HappyNic

Lance Corporal of Horse Steven Gerrard, speaking from his bed on the RFA Argus in the Gulf, said: "I can command my vehicle. I can keep it from being attacked. What I have not been trained to do is look over my shoulder to see whether an American is shooting at me."

He has every right to be piss as the pilot of the A-10, I know I would be too,, If the person the Pilot killed was a very close friend of mines, I would do everything in my power to make him sorry.

I second that, this seems to be happening a bit too much...

 

[TheCorm]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Sad, but friendly fire happens. Those guys can be angry, but there is no reason to bring charges.

As for....

On the back of one of the engineers' vehicles there was a Union Jack.

"It's about 18 inches wide by about 12 inches. For him to fire his weapons I believe he had to look through his magnified optics. How he could not see that Union Jack I don't know."

They don't aim for the back of vehicles....especially ones with turrets.....they aim for the area where the turret meets the main body of the vehicle because that is the weakest point.

Well they should be looking if they are to determine who to shoot at and who not to....

 

[B00ne]

One can only hope that such a-holes as this pilot will be put away for good.

I also read, the firing started when the A-10 was only 500m away and just in 50m Altitude, the cars also had the markings and a flag and there was also a number of civilians standing by - and whoever says here FF can happen - maybe, but then u dont swing around for a second time to kill some more of your 'allies' - but maybe the pilot just thaught the Union Jack is the flag of Iraq



I rather think was probably the same type of guy like the ones that killed ca. 20 ppl in the italian Alps when they thought they are cool by flying underneath the wire of a cable car - cutting it...

 

[MadRat]

If they don't start punishing some of these pilots for their mistakes then its going to keep happening. The military treats its pilots with kiddy gloves and this has led to repeated problems. The punishment for such actions always seems to end up in some type of extended paid leave for the pilot and then total dismissal of the charges after a lengthy inquiry. Often enough the pilot then retires with half pay due to some stress related ailment.

When is the last time a pilot actually was truly reprimanded for his mistake?

 

[UltraQuiet]

It looks really easy from the cheap seats doesn't it girls.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
It looks really easy from the cheap seats doesn't it girls.

Totally agree...

 

[Richdog]

I think the U.S. makes the pilots watch "Independance Day" just before they fly...

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
It looks really easy from the cheap seats doesn't it girls.

Well, maybe that is it, but somehow it is also true that US pilots are known for ruthless behavior (maybe that is because the US is the only country with bases all over the world and therefoe only they have the chance to be known for that) and that makes it easy to jump to conclusions such as the Cowboy one - which I believe is not far fetched

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
It looks really easy from the cheap seats doesn't it girls.

Well, maybe that is it, but somehow it is also true that US pilots are known for ruthless behavior (maybe that is because the US is the only country with bases all over the world and therefoe only they have the chance to be known for that) and that makes it easy to jump to conclusions such as the Cowboy one - which I believe is not far fetched

So when was the last time any of you armchair pilots was flying 50m off the ground in a hostile fire zone traveling in excess of several hundred miles an hour while simultaneously focusing on your instruments, potential targets, and potential threats? That goes for the British troops on the ground who have absolutely ZERO idea what the pilots are doing or seeing.

"Smart" weapons and increased accuracy do nothing to eliminate friendly fire -- they just make misindentification more deadly.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: TheCorm

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Sad, but friendly fire happens. Those guys can be angry, but there is no reason to bring charges.

As for....

On the back of one of the engineers' vehicles there was a Union Jack.

"It's about 18 inches wide by about 12 inches. For him to fire his weapons I believe he had to look through his magnified optics. How he could not see that Union Jack I don't know."

They don't aim for the back of vehicles....especially ones with turrets.....they aim for the area where the turret meets the main body of the vehicle because that is the weakest point.

Well they should be looking if they are to determine who to shoot at and who not to....

That's easy to say when you're not the one in the air having to make a split second decision. IT's unfortunate that things like this happen but it is not unexpected.

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: AndrewR

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
It looks really easy from the cheap seats doesn't it girls.

Well, maybe that is it, but somehow it is also true that US pilots are known for ruthless behavior (maybe that is because the US is the only country with bases all over the world and therefoe only they have the chance to be known for that) and that makes it easy to jump to conclusions such as the Cowboy one - which I believe is not far fetched

So when was the last time any of you armchair pilots was flying 50m off the ground in a hostile fire zone traveling in excess of several hundred miles an hour while simultaneously focusing on your instruments, potential targets, and potential threats? That goes for the British troops on the ground who have absolutely ZERO idea what the pilots are doing or seeing.

"Smart" weapons and increased accuracy do nothing to eliminate friendly fire -- they just make misindentification more deadly.

Actually I dont care if I will ever fly at several hundred mph @50m above the ground - if the pilot is incapable of discerning friend from foe he is simply in the wrong seat - it is just as simple as that. I dont say that mistakes cant happen, but such mistakes must not happen or the pilot should face responsibility. When I go out hunting and I kill a fellow hunter I cant just say: "Oh, my bad just a mistake I thought he was the deer" No, I will have to go to court and take responsibility for my action
And besides this particular guys even turned around to have another shooting run at them - either he was blind or trigger happy - and why was he away from his group - for some extra credit?

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
It looks really easy from the cheap seats doesn't it girls.

So those British soldiers were in the cheap seats? I think they are qualified to make their opinion known. They were there, they got fired at.

 

[rahvin]

Boone,

If I throw a baseball at you and it has a logo painted identifying wether it is a hostile or friendly baseball on it the size of a dime would you be capable of deciding if it's a friendly baseball or a hostile baseball? That is how long a pilot has to identify a vehicle and at that speed all of the vehicles look the same.

Friendly fire is part of war, troops fight at such distance these days that identifying troops is extremely difficult. Coallition forces are supposed to have an identifying equipment that sends friend/foe messages out to minimize these incidents. Without them there would be 5 times the number of casualties already suffered.

Personally I do want pilots that are proved to have been negligent in their duty punished. On the other hand I'm not going to get the rope and lynch a guy for what could have been an honest mistake. The news media and even the guy that got shot are NOT reliable sources of information on wether the pilot followed protocol.