Wounded British Soldiers Angrily Condem US Cowboy Pilots

[B00ne]

Well I am not saying that he should be lynched but he should be tried, but the US wont be doing that as they think their ppl can kill anything as long as it is not American - as evidenced by dropping charges on the pilot dropping bombs on a canadian unit or by dropping charges on pilots killing 20 cvillians in Italy because they wanted to be cool and have a brag story (by flying under the cable of a cable car).

And btw I think if pilots cannot positively indentify a target before shooting they shouldnt be shooting at all. it's not that hard - just dont pull the trigger.

 

[AAjax]

Its interesting to see how this dicusion is divided and to note the respective countries the participants are from

 

[rickon66]

If I was a trained pilot and had combat experience, I would probably be critical of these actions. I am not a trained pilot and do not have combat experience, so I can't really make a VALID criticism.

 

[UltraQuiet]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
It looks really easy from the cheap seats doesn't it girls.

So those British soldiers were in the cheap seats? I think they are qualified to make their opinion known. They were there, they got fired at.

Yeah, that's who I was talking about, the soldiers.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

Originally posted by: Leon

It's the very last line of the article.

Of course.

They did report it. I remember reading it elsewhere on that very paper.

No offence, but I'm kinda tired of any criticism of the US being called "anti-american". Sometimes people need to be criticized. It's the only way they get better. Those guys are on the frontline, we aren't. They are more qualified to make any statements about that pilot than we are.

It's not like we've never seen trigger happy pilots before. History is full of them.

whenever you print 50 criticizing articles on page 1 and bury a pro article 5 links in you tend to get called what you are....anti-american. The Guardian is nothing more than the Al Jazeera in english

 

[desertdweller]

Originally posted by: B00ne
Well I am not saying that he should be lynched but he should be tried, but the US wont be doing that as they think their ppl can kill anything as long as it is not American - as evidenced by dropping charges on the pilot dropping bombs on a canadian unit or by dropping charges on pilots killing 20 cvillians in Italy because they wanted to be cool and have a brag story (by flying under the cable of a cable car).

And btw I think if pilots cannot positively indentify a target before shooting they shouldnt be shooting at all. it's not that hard - just dont pull the trigger.

I wonder, how many people are calling for the winner's heads of the Brit on Brit tank match??


DD

 

[Fencer128]

whenever you print 50 criticizing articles on page 1 and bury a pro article 5 links in you tend to get called what you are....anti-american. The Guardian is nothing more than the Al Jazeera in english

Forgetting everything else that was said above, this one comment strikes me as a little unsound (having read the guardian).

Andy

 

[TheCorm]

At the end of the day, everyone must be held responsible for their actions...people in the military forces even more so...

My opinion of this would be the same whether it was US friendly fire or UK friendly fire hitting either US or UK troops.

Corm

 

[exp]

I don't know the particulars of this specific incident, but obviously FF in general is nothing new. Iraqis kill Americans, Brits, and Iraqis. Americans kill Iraqis, Americans kill Americans, and yes, if British troops are in the vicinity Americans kill Brits. Brits kill Iraqis and Brits. Notice the pattern here? In a war zone everyone kills everyone...that's just the nature of armed conflict. At some point in time members of every warring faction will kill members of every other faction present. Frankly it's only a matter of time before Brits kill Americans, and I would hope that when that happens Americans here would have the good sense to recognize an accident as such (though unfortunately I highly doubt it). Friendly fire is sad but inevitable.

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: MadRat
If they don't start punishing some of these pilots for their mistakes then its going to keep happening.

This makes no sense.

If it was a *mistake*, then the pilot did not know that he was doing something wrong. If he did know that he was doing something wrong, then it wasn't a mistake.

Punishing people for making mistakes does not stop them from making mistakes. Since a mistake entails not knowing you are doing something wrong, the threat of punishment won't enlighten them anyhow.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: B00ne
One can only hope that such a-holes as this pilot will be put away for good.

I also read, the firing started when the A-10 was only 500m away and just in 50m Altitude, the cars also had the markings and a flag and there was also a number of civilians standing by - and whoever says here FF can happen - maybe, but then u dont swing around for a second time to kill some more of your 'allies' - but maybe the pilot just thaught the Union Jack is the flag of Iraq



I rather think was probably the same type of guy like the ones that killed ca. 20 ppl in the italian Alps when they thought they are cool by flying underneath the wire of a cable car - cutting it...

B00ne's grasp of facts is once again proven nonexistent.

 

[Jimbo]

This incident does highlight a need for a ground-based IFF program.
At the speeds and altitudes that these type of engagements occur, it is ofter difficult to rectify mistakes before it is too late.

I don't blame the Brits for being pissed; I would be too. I also think a 12" X 18" Union Jack does not cut it either. I don't blame them for that, as I am sure they just used what they were handed.

Keep in mind that a similar incident involving two Challenger II tanks (both British) happened just a few days ago. To pretend that this is an American problem ignores the obvious.

 

[blahblah]

What if British Troop opened fire on American Marines and killed 100 of them, what would you say then?

Is Friendly fire still accpetable?

If you take a look at the numbers, you'd see that there is more troop lost to Friendly Fire incident than to actual Combat. Does this not scare you?

I'd think that with all these advance tech, there would be less incident like this.

 

[Jimbo]

Originally posted by: blahblah
What if British Troop opened fire on American Marines and killed 100 of them, what would you say then?

Is Friendly fire still accpetable?

If you take a look at the numbers, you'd see that there is more troop lost to Friendly Fire incident than to actual Combat. Does this not scare you?

I'd think that with all these advance tech, there would be less incident like this.

Who said it was acceptable? Nobody.

 

[blahblah]

Originally posted by: Jimbo
Who said it was acceptable? Nobody.

if it is not acceptable, then why not punish those who are responsible? After All, how can we stress the severity of this issues.

If all you can say is it' s an accident and no one is responsible, then the message you are sending out is that Friendly fire is acceptable and should just be accepted.

As the British who is often on the receiving end, I'd be pretty upset if nothing is done about it.

 

[Fencer128]

We'll just have to wait and see which of the following occured:

Negligence.

Genuine human error.

Once this has been established this arguement can move forwards. I hope that the military make a fair go of this and don't whitewash all friendly fire issues as "human error" in order to keep the PR lookng good.

Andy

 

[LP29]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: MadRat
If they don't start punishing some of these pilots for their mistakes then its going to keep happening.

This makes no sense.

If it was a *mistake*, then the pilot did not know that he was doing something wrong. If he did know that he was doing something wrong, then it wasn't a mistake.

Punishing people for making mistakes does not stop them from making mistakes. Since a mistake entails not knowing you are doing something wrong, the threat of punishment won't enlighten them anyhow.

huh

If thats what you think then people who are in jail because they killed a person accidentally by hitting them with his car should be set free!

Even if it is a mistake, you still have to pay for your actions!

 

[Marshallj]

Originally posted by: LP29

huh

If thats what you think then people who are in jail because they killed a person accidentally by hitting them with his car should be set free!

Even if it is a mistake, you still have to pay for your actions!

Most people who mistakenly kill someone in an auto accident do not go to jail. Usually only when they have been proven to be excessively reckless (such as driving while drunk or speeding way over the speed limit) do they get punished.

That kind of kills the point of your post, doesn't it?

 

[shiner]

I just saw an interview done by Sky News with one of the wounded British soldiers. He didn't sound anything like what the article in The Guardian said. Basically he said that the pilot came overhead and unloaded into them and then turned and made a second pass. He also said that at the time they were just outside of an Iraqi village where there had been some heavy fighting going on and that there were enemy units nearby. He said he believed it to just be a "muck up" and the type of unfortunate thing that happens in war.

 

[HappyNic]

Originally posted by: Marshallj

Originally posted by: LP29

huh

If thats what you think then people who are in jail because they killed a person accidentally by hitting them with his car should be set free!

Even if it is a mistake, you still have to pay for your actions!

Most people who mistakenly kill someone in an auto accident do not go to jail. Usually only when they have been proven to be excessively reckless (such as driving while drunk or speeding way over the speed limit) do they get punished.

That kind of kills the point of your post, doesn't it?

I think what "LP29" means is if a person accidently though you were someone else, took aim and shot you once , wait for a sec then shot you once more with a gun, he wound get in some kind of trouble no matter what.,
If it was base on car accident then the A-10 would be a big truck that notice 5 people walking across the street and accident though they some pigents or something, then descided to ram them over, do a U turn and ram them again. After the incident 4 injure and death, If that's wouldn't get you introuble I don't know what would.

 

[AndrewR]

People seem to wonder why more Brits die at the hands of Americans than Americans die from their own. The reason? The Brits are not fully compatible with communications equipment and have their own command structure. So, while most American vehicles have locators which can broadcast to command nets to monitor their location (was reading about it the other day in Washington Post or something like that), the Brits have nothing of the sort and are thus much more likely to be mistaken for the enemy.

The problem is that while before a plane strafing a tank wouldn't do much and a dropped bomb might destroy the tank, modern weapons are going to kill with one shot.