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Wouldn't Trump's tax returns help Mueller get to the bottom of things?

C

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
So, pondering this; If Trump is actually under investigation, it would seem that one of the first things Mueller would have on his subpoena list, would be Trump's tax returns. Why hasn't he requested those documents? Seems that they would be easy for him to obtain. I've read that Trump has been told he isn't personally under investigation. I'm not sure if this is true, but it would seem the tax returns would have been a 1st target, if he was. Is Mueller leaving stones not yet rolled for some kind of finale'?
 
I believe he did go after his records at deutsch bank but besides that I think hes trying to keep trump at arms length as he builds his case. He doesn't want to go too hard too fast on trump and get kicked off the case before he has one.
 
Good question and I’m not sure. I’m speculating that Trump mentioned that as a red line (which seems a pretty odd thing to say) last year. Guessing again maybe it’s in the plan but toward the end.
 
It may have already happened but we wouldn't know if Mueller is doing his job properly. Any leak regarding this would result in another round of hearings and Trumps team being tipped off. But would it help Mueller? I don't know as the Feds have access to banking records and other financial information as well as witnesses who can provide more detailed information than any 1040.

IMO The refusal to release tax records is more to isolate Trump from public scrutiny than that of law enforcement access
 
compuwiz1 said:
So, pondering this; If Trump is actually under investigation, it would seem that one of the first things Mueller would have on his subpoena list, would be Trump's tax returns. Why hasn't he requested those documents? Seems that they would be easy for him to obtain. I've read that Trump has been told he isn't personally under investigation. I'm not sure if this is true, but it would seem the tax returns would have been a 1st target, if he was. Is Mueller leaving stones not yet rolled for some kind of finale'?
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To borrow from The Wire: when you come at the king, you best not miss.

The very millisecond Mueller goes for the jugular like that, Trump will go berserk. He will try to obstruct justice in whatever way he can; he will run a smear campaign that makes his tired "Witch Hunt" shtick seem modest. Mueller needs an airtight case that makes it clear Trump is trying to hide something, because Trump would not hesitate to dismantle the entire case on the slightest pretext of impropriety... and I wouldn't put it past him to try and ruin Mueller personally.
 
It makes sense that he is holding off on the major stuff that will set Trump into full insanity mode. I think the nuclear move is going to come when they arrest Jr. and Kushner, both of whom seem to have broken the law, with ample evidence of conspiring with Russian agents in Trump tower. As well as lying about it.
 
compuwiz1 said:
So, pondering this; If Trump is actually under investigation, it would seem that one of the first things Mueller would have on his subpoena list, would be Trump's tax returns. Why hasn't he requested those documents? Seems that they would be easy for him to obtain. I've read that Trump has been told he isn't personally under investigation. I'm not sure if this is true, but it would seem the tax returns would have been a 1st target, if he was. Is Mueller leaving stones not yet rolled for some kind of finale'?
Click to expand...

If Mueller had requested his tax returns we probably wouldn’t know it. I find it very likely he already has.
 
fskimospy said:
If Mueller had requested his tax returns we probably wouldn’t know it. I find it very likely he already has.
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The problem is someone leaking this to Nunes or the like. Then the Reps have to wait for the proper moment to strike (and they'll make it some big invasion of privacy) and feed FOX what it wishes.

Speaking of Fox, this opinion piece popped up and for once I looked. http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018...-reactions-to-trump-since-election-night.html


Yes, unbelievably, the newest charge against President Trump was treason.

Treason, by the way, is defined in the Merriam-Webster dictionary as: “the offense of attempting by overt acts to overthrow the government of the state to which the offender owes allegiance or to kill or personally injure the sovereign or the sovereign's family.”

So President Trump was trying to overthrow the government he leads or trying to kill or injure himself or his family?
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Unfortunately for our opponents that definition is irrelevant as it is the Constitution and how it defines treason which applies, not a Game of Thrones scenario.

The state-run news agency is desperate
 
You can't go on a fishing expedition. You have to have evidence suggesting you are likely to find something of value before obtaining a search warrant for something. You could subpoena it, but that could be contested. All that said, Mueller may have such evidence and choose not to go after his tax returns at this time. I personally think that the way he has progressed indicates a strong desire to keep direct evidence against Trump and associates out of public view for as long as possible. The charges/plea deals thus far aren't directly implicating Trump/campaign in collusion or obstruction, yet lots of things of relevance to those possibilities have surfaced in the media. If course Trump and cronies use this to say that Mueller should stop the witch hunt because he hasn't found anything. That's not very sensical.
 
interchange said:
You can't go on a fishing expedition. You have to have evidence suggesting you are likely to find something of value before obtaining a search warrant for something. You could subpoena it, but that could be contested. All that said, Mueller may have such evidence and choose not to go after his tax returns at this time. I personally think that the way he has progressed indicates a strong desire to keep direct evidence against Trump and associates out of public view for as long as possible. The charges/plea deals thus far aren't directly implicating Trump/campaign in collusion or obstruction, yet lots of things of relevance to those possibilities have surfaced in the media. If course Trump and cronies use this to say that Mueller should stop the witch hunt because he hasn't found anything. That's not very sensical.
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Mueller has probably already requested and gotten the tax returns. Likely more than a year ago IMO.

There’s already way, way more than enough evidence available that implicates Trump for Mueller to have requested them from the IRS.
 
I think the only possible value the tax returns might have would be to show if Trump lied on his tax returns. I wouldn't expect them to contain a smoking gun of any sort with respect to his collusion with Russia. Then again, this is "stupid Watergate" so maybe they do.

Line 117b:
$130,000 - Payment to silence porn star
$47,000 - Business expenses associated with hosting Russian intelligence operatives at Trump Tower for campaign strategy planning
 
fskimospy said:
Mueller has probably already requested and gotten the tax returns. Likely more than a year ago IMO.

There’s already way, way more than enough evidence available that implicates Trump for Mueller to have requested them from the IRS.
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Likely true but there's no way to tell. Mueller runs a tight ship. When & if he ever goes after Trump directly it will be a full broadside.
 
IronWing said:
I think the only possible value the tax returns might have would be to show if Trump lied on his tax returns. I wouldn't expect them to contain a smoking gun of any sort with respect to his collusion with Russia. Then again, this is "stupid Watergate" so maybe they do.

Line 117b:
$130,000 - Payment to silence porn star
$47,000 - Business expenses associated with hosting Russian intelligence operatives at Trump Tower for campaign strategy planning
Click to expand...

They won’t contain a smoking gun directly, no. They will contain information on his zillions of LLC’s though, so after that you start looking into them. The tax returns are just one step in what would be a huge undertaking.
 
I have a feeling he already has all the tax documents he needs. Remember when Trump got all panicky? "Looking into my family's finances is a red line to cross" is a great way to signal to an investigator that something of relevance is there. If I had to guess I'd say Trump is hoping a Gordian Knot of LLCs and other entities will provide enough of a barrier to protect him from having to answer about being a Russian money launderer since the 90s. That plus his multiple attempts at obstruction of justice anyway.
 
compuwiz1 said:
So, pondering this; If Trump is actually under investigation, it would seem that one of the first things Mueller would have on his subpoena list, would be Trump's tax returns. Why hasn't he requested those documents? Seems that they would be easy for him to obtain. I've read that Trump has been told he isn't personally under investigation. I'm not sure if this is true, but it would seem the tax returns would have been a 1st target, if he was. Is Mueller leaving stones not yet rolled for some kind of finale'?
Click to expand...
I'm sure he already has them.
 
I for one will be glad when Mueller winds up this either way so we can all get on with our lives either with President Trump or President Pence.

Maybe the left can heal from all the hate they have inside.
 
Jhhnn said:
Likely true but there's no way to tell. Mueller runs a tight ship. When & if he ever goes after Trump directly it will be a full broadside.
Click to expand...
Yea, I agree with this, Muller has run a remarkably leak-free investigation so far and if he does go for Trump it will be nothing or as you said, a full broadside. Keep this in mind though, the indictment of the 12 Russian hackers just as Trump was heading into his travel to Helsinki was no accident, IMO Muller wanted to put Trump on the "hot seat" before that summit and it worked splendidly. All of a sudden talk of impeaching Rosenstein have disappeared.
 
pcgeek11 said:
I for one will be glad when Mueller winds up this either way so we can all get on with our lives either with President Trump or President Pence.

Maybe the left can heal from all the hate they have inside.
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Perhaps you confuse hate with the refusal to abide iniquity:

The Parable of the Persistent Widow

And he told them a parable to the effect that they ought always to pray and not lose heart. He said, “In a certain city there was a judge who neither feared God nor respected man. And there was a widow in that city who kept coming to him and saying, ‘Give me justice against my adversary.’ For a while he refused, but afterward he said to himself, ‘Though I neither fear God nor respect man, yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will give her justice, so that she will not beat me down by her continual coming.’ ” And the Lord said, “Hear what the unrighteous judge says. And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? I tell you, he will give justice to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?”

So I say unto you, by brother, "Woe unto he who casts his stinking corpse into a tank full of justice loving piranhas, especially if they neither fear God nor respect assholes.
 
BUTCH1 said:
Yea, I agree with this, Muller has run a remarkably leak-free investigation so far and if he does go for Trump it will be nothing or as you said, a full broadside. Keep this in mind though, the indictment of the 12 Russian hackers just as Trump was heading into his travel to Helsinki was no accident, IMO Muller wanted to put Trump on the "hot seat" before that summit and it worked splendidly. All of a sudden talk of impeaching Rosenstein have disappeared.
Click to expand...
The decision to indict and announce on the twelve Russians wasn’t Muellers. As I understand it that was Rosenstwin. The DOJ was the ones processing and handling those charges.
 
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