We don't know that Tom will badmouth it yet... but yes, he is very harsh on products if they suck.
"doesn't i850 use only rambus?"
i850 is just an i840 with a quad pumped FSB
we will see who is faster (performance wise, not mhz wise) when it comes out.
a deeper pipe allows higher mhz, but does less at each stage in the pipe (however there are more stages overall). this means that when the first instruction exits the pipe, every tick of the clock after that you'll get less instructions out of the pipe PER CLOCK, however the clock will be significantly higher.
The P4 also has a disadvantage when it comes to making bad decisions, it gets a large hit in performance.
mhz-mhz, Athlons and P3's will be faster, but overall I wouldn't be surprised if the P4 has an overall speed higher then the P3 and K7. there are many reasons why I think that. but I won't get into that.
THEN of course, is the RAMBUS issue, which will limit a lot of people here on this BBS.
After that, theres the COST of the P4. it's got a HUGE die size, even at .18. therefor it will be expensive to manufacture, and the costs will be passed down to the consumer somewhat.
i850 is just an i840 with a quad pumped FSB
we will see who is faster (performance wise, not mhz wise) when it comes out.
a deeper pipe allows higher mhz, but does less at each stage in the pipe (however there are more stages overall). this means that when the first instruction exits the pipe, every tick of the clock after that you'll get less instructions out of the pipe PER CLOCK, however the clock will be significantly higher.
The P4 also has a disadvantage when it comes to making bad decisions, it gets a large hit in performance.
mhz-mhz, Athlons and P3's will be faster, but overall I wouldn't be surprised if the P4 has an overall speed higher then the P3 and K7. there are many reasons why I think that. but I won't get into that.
THEN of course, is the RAMBUS issue, which will limit a lot of people here on this BBS.
After that, theres the COST of the P4. it's got a HUGE die size, even at .18. therefor it will be expensive to manufacture, and the costs will be passed down to the consumer somewhat.
It depends on how much the new processor is going to cost. Know Intel it is going to be grossly over priced. The processor is not going to be the only thing that is hard to make, the MB design for the P4 will have to be increadibly intricate, making the prices for the MB skyrocket, plus the requirement of the highly expensive RAMBUS Ram, it's just not a good deal. Unless you're loaded.
No. I've supported AMD for years and will continue to do so. Besides, if/when Intel comes out with a 2GHz CPU it will extremely expensive. (And AMD will probably have a 2.1 or 2.2 chip out for less money!)
No, I am looking more and more at AMD for my next processor.
Reasons, Rambus, hate the companys actions, will not buy their product if given any choice at all in the matter.
P4 initial pinout will be changing sometime next year, why get an obsolete motherboard?
Heat of the initial P4's, The P4 will not be a viable alternative in my opionion until they get it to 13um and copper interconnects. Any idea when that will be?
Cost and value, I'm willing to wait on the benchmarks, but believe the P4s will be to high priced to provide any bang for the buck.
Reasons, Rambus, hate the companys actions, will not buy their product if given any choice at all in the matter.
P4 initial pinout will be changing sometime next year, why get an obsolete motherboard?
Heat of the initial P4's, The P4 will not be a viable alternative in my opionion until they get it to 13um and copper interconnects. Any idea when that will be?
Cost and value, I'm willing to wait on the benchmarks, but believe the P4s will be to high priced to provide any bang for the buck.
Basically 80% of this forums members signed the P4 death warrant before it was born, can you say biased?
LOL!!
HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT THE i850 WILL BE BAD??? besides the Rambus it's JUST FINE.
why? cause the i850 is ONLY an i840 with a Quad Pumped FSB.
HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT THE i850 WILL BE BAD??? besides the Rambus it's JUST FINE.
why? cause the i850 is ONLY an i840 with a Quad Pumped FSB.
Intel will ditch the P4 socket for a new one later on right (forgot the socket #'s)? I remember something like that.
ok I see that I've been somewhat.. snobby.. about that, but seriously, there most likely won't be compatability problems with this chipset, because it's been around for soooo long (in the form of i840) and finally, becuase Intel has the BEST record for compatability. those two things combined lead me to believe they shouldn't have any problems at all. or as close to none as they've ever had.
jmcoreymv - In a way, yes we are biased. I don't think you or a lot of people really understand what being biased means though. Check out This Article if want to know what I mean. It explains the recent change in not just that website, but many peoples opinions on AMD and Intel and why many are liking AMD now.
For this audience that consists mainly of tweakers, overclockers, and those wanting value performance - the P4 is not a very good choice. The P4 is going to be an expensive chip that uses an expensive motherboard and an expensive brand of RAM. That is pretty much a certainty. So why would anyone here that has a 500-1ghz processor want to spend over a thousand dollars at least simply for a cpu/mobo/ram? That doesn't mean there isn't a market out there for these sorts of systems, just that the sort of people that visit the Anandtech BBS and many of the other popular hardware sites aren't going to be interested in that sort of product.
For this audience that consists mainly of tweakers, overclockers, and those wanting value performance - the P4 is not a very good choice. The P4 is going to be an expensive chip that uses an expensive motherboard and an expensive brand of RAM. That is pretty much a certainty. So why would anyone here that has a 500-1ghz processor want to spend over a thousand dollars at least simply for a cpu/mobo/ram? That doesn't mean there isn't a market out there for these sorts of systems, just that the sort of people that visit the Anandtech BBS and many of the other popular hardware sites aren't going to be interested in that sort of product.
PC World article
"The P4 is a more sophisticated processor than the Athlon, Krewell says. But he notes the new P4 design may actually run some of today's applications more slowly than an equivalent PIII. It is designed to excel at tasks such as streaming media, he says."
It looks like Intel had better get that P4 2G out soon.
"The P4 is a more sophisticated processor than the Athlon, Krewell says. But he notes the new P4 design may actually run some of today's applications more slowly than an equivalent PIII. It is designed to excel at tasks such as streaming media, he says."
It looks like Intel had better get that P4 2G out soon.
Bias - To influence in a particular, typically unfair direction; prejudice.
I dont agree with the way that article used the word bias, because IMO a bias is when you prejudge something without knowing all the facts. In regard to the article, you know for a fact that a rolls royce is of higher quality then a civic, however information regarding the p4 is just speculation. Theres a difference.
I dont agree with the way that article used the word bias, because IMO a bias is when you prejudge something without knowing all the facts. In regard to the article, you know for a fact that a rolls royce is of higher quality then a civic, however information regarding the p4 is just speculation. Theres a difference.
It's useless to speculate on the Pentium 4 (and any future product) right now, because we lack the only two pieces of information that really matter as buying crieria: price and performance. If the P4 is truly a better value than its future competition (ie. DDR Athlon, Mustang) then I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to my customers.
However, given Intel's price/performance track record, there's really no reason to believe they'll be willing to offer better value than AMD. In fact, the only time in the past ten years when Intel offered a better price/performance ratio was during the last half of the CeleronA's run. At every other time, AMD chips have offered better bang for your buck, from their 386 clone, to their Am486 to the 586, K5, K6-x, and all the way up to today's Athlon and Duron.
Intel's strategy for the P4 is clever from both a technology and marketting standpoint: design it with inherently high clock speed scalability and captalize on the public's perception that higher MHz equals better performance. Imagine Joe User walking into CompUSA and comparing a $1000, 1.5 GHz AMD system to a $1000, 2.0 GHz Intel system. Joe doesn't read AnandTech or Tom's Hardware, where he would learn that the AMD system is in fact faster. His only source of advice to rely on is the ignorant IT manager at work who only buys Intel, the corrupt editors at PC Magazine, and the commericals that promise a "better Internet experience" with new "Intel NetBurst technology, only on the Pentium 4". Which will he chose?
Modus
However, given Intel's price/performance track record, there's really no reason to believe they'll be willing to offer better value than AMD. In fact, the only time in the past ten years when Intel offered a better price/performance ratio was during the last half of the CeleronA's run. At every other time, AMD chips have offered better bang for your buck, from their 386 clone, to their Am486 to the 586, K5, K6-x, and all the way up to today's Athlon and Duron.
Intel's strategy for the P4 is clever from both a technology and marketting standpoint: design it with inherently high clock speed scalability and captalize on the public's perception that higher MHz equals better performance. Imagine Joe User walking into CompUSA and comparing a $1000, 1.5 GHz AMD system to a $1000, 2.0 GHz Intel system. Joe doesn't read AnandTech or Tom's Hardware, where he would learn that the AMD system is in fact faster. His only source of advice to rely on is the ignorant IT manager at work who only buys Intel, the corrupt editors at PC Magazine, and the commericals that promise a "better Internet experience" with new "Intel NetBurst technology, only on the Pentium 4". Which will he chose?
Modus
Modus is right, I know a dumb a** at work that will buy nothing but intel because AMD is not as good. I have a Athlon 750 and it is not as good as his PentiumII 450! You think he is the only one??????? Sad but true!
<< Go net-burst!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This means better cyber-sex experience for all of us! >>
Do u have to pay for this?
<< i highly doubt a p4 would be a good value. >>
Actually, the word is that the initial pricing for the 1.4GHz will be $695 ... I think the 1.5 was an additional $100.
It all depends on the benchmarks, reviews, and cost. If it performs well and is worth the cost it's good enough for me.
M. R. -
You also got to take into account that the P4 will use an expensive (if the i840 is anything to go by) motherboard, and expensive memory.
You also got to take into account that the P4 will use an expensive (if the i840 is anything to go by) motherboard, and expensive memory.
Hamburgerpimp
Diamond Member
- Aug 15, 2000
- 7,464
- 1
- 76
One very good reason, well two, as to why I would buy AMD day and night. Intel develops products they think will dominate and lead the market like 64bit processing that does not work backworks with 32bit. AMD on the other hand develops products that the Comsumer needs. Compatability from 64bit to 32bit, affordable CPU's and products that are not costly for performance, like DDR ram.
It seems the past year especially, AMD has sat back and watched Intel drop the ball more than the San Diego Chargers! 1 million mobo recalls and the entire Rambus debacle, who in there right minds would want to be on the Intel boat right now?
It seems the past year especially, AMD has sat back and watched Intel drop the ball more than the San Diego Chargers! 1 million mobo recalls and the entire Rambus debacle, who in there right minds would want to be on the Intel boat right now?
<< It would depend.. If it was a good value and it was significantly faster then I wouldn't hesitate. Brand Loyalty is foolish. The only one you have to be loyal too when it come to purchasing anything is yourself. >>
Great principle.
My, we are all quite "touchy" on this subject aren't we???
Intel has had a disastrous year, wrought with failure after failure... the i-820 chipset fiasco....... the MTH (memory translator hub) fiasco, inability to supply the demand for it's CPU's, the recent 1.13 GHz "flop chip" (that's NOT a typo for flip-chip), etc... However, Intel isn't out of the ballgame yet. I believe they are really putting effort into the Willamette and its supporting chipset.
Time will tell if they succeed in producing a realiable and high-performance product.
AMD has had a banner year, despite all the efforts of Intel to thwart them, their chipset suppliers not being "prepared" for the initial release of the Athlon July/Aug 1999, their own
"irongate" chipset "issues", hardware incompatibilities with their "irongate" and VIA's KX-133 chipsets, etc...
The architecture of the AMD Athlon\T-Bird is clearly superior to the Intel PIII. If they only had someone who could produce a chipset\RAM combination that could really let the CPU strutt it's stuff. Maybe the AMD 760 will be the answer. When DDR SDRAM becomes available for use
with chipsets\mobos that support the AMD T-Bird, will the bird soar even higher?
There are a lot of questions yet unanswered. I'll wait and let things settle down, if they ever do.
My guess is AMD is here to STAY. Intel will REALLY have to get it's act together if it wants
to re-establish its lost credibility.
Stay Tuned..... to Anandtech.com
Intel has had a disastrous year, wrought with failure after failure... the i-820 chipset fiasco....... the MTH (memory translator hub) fiasco, inability to supply the demand for it's CPU's, the recent 1.13 GHz "flop chip" (that's NOT a typo for flip-chip), etc... However, Intel isn't out of the ballgame yet. I believe they are really putting effort into the Willamette and its supporting chipset.
Time will tell if they succeed in producing a realiable and high-performance product.
AMD has had a banner year, despite all the efforts of Intel to thwart them, their chipset suppliers not being "prepared" for the initial release of the Athlon July/Aug 1999, their own
"irongate" chipset "issues", hardware incompatibilities with their "irongate" and VIA's KX-133 chipsets, etc...
The architecture of the AMD Athlon\T-Bird is clearly superior to the Intel PIII. If they only had someone who could produce a chipset\RAM combination that could really let the CPU strutt it's stuff. Maybe the AMD 760 will be the answer. When DDR SDRAM becomes available for use
with chipsets\mobos that support the AMD T-Bird, will the bird soar even higher?
There are a lot of questions yet unanswered. I'll wait and let things settle down, if they ever do.
My guess is AMD is here to STAY. Intel will REALLY have to get it's act together if it wants
to re-establish its lost credibility.
Stay Tuned..... to Anandtech.com
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