Would you buy a phone with no removable battery?

[Ichinisan]

best part of a removable battery is when your phone has some kind of hard freeze. You just yank the battery. Or the extended batteries but we don't need those often now as most last over a day now.

Power/lock with home always seems to successfully force reboot on iPhone.

That said, a system freeze that doesn't simply reload the springboard is incredibly rare for an iOS device.

 

[ponyo]

Eug has tons of problems with his Apple devices. He has constantly harped about RAM issues and such that I've never experienced. I have had an iPhone since they official came off AT&T, and had one early on on TMobile (minus the 3G speed). I have yet had a RAM issue with any of them.

If you never ran into RAM issue on the iPhone, it means you don't do much on your phone. App reload and losing what you typed because of the reload is probably the most irritating thing on the iPhone. I ran into it the first day when I switched from Android to an iPhone.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I hate the idea of non removable battery, no SD card slot and other limitations, but unfortunately that seems to be the norm with most phones now days unless you're rocking an old blackberry or something. If I had a choice I would not but since I don't really have a choice then I did anyway. I hate this trend of everything being so disposable, it's horrible for the environment not to mention is a waste of money. Phones should have removable batteries and a SD card slot, perhaps even two slots, one for OS/apps and one for data. But nooo they rather have a "16GB" model and a "32GB" model they can charge twice for.

That said I've had my Nexus 4 since the 2nd shipment and my battery still lasts a bit over a day. I like the fact that it uses a standard micro USB and not some proprietary bull crap, so I have a charger at work and one at home, if the battery is more than half way I put it on the charger. Storage space wise I don't find it a limitation either, but I imagine it could be if I brought it somewhere and did not bring my DSLR and decided to take lot of pictures or something.

Overall, as much as I would prefer removable battery/storage, I don't exactly miss it that much TBH.

 

[ponyo]

I've had phones with no replaceable battery (iPhone 3G, iPhone 6), and phones with a replaceable battery (Droid X, Samsung Galaxy S3).

What's interesting is that the iPhone never needed a replacement battery (it STILL running as an MP3 player after 7 years!), but the original batteries died on both the Droid and the Samsung phones after about 18 months of use.

If I didn't know better, I'd think that the phone manufacturers use lower quality batteries if/when they know they are easily replaceable. It's more likely that I was just lucky with the iPhone.

Maybe Apple uses higher quality batteries? My wife's original iPad battery still holds a charge after 5 years and is usable. But our original 7" Samsung Galaxy Tab battery is completely dead and will not hold a charge. It stopped holding a charge after 2-3 years. I had to buy a new tablet because of the dead battery.

 

[Svnla]

I like the removable battery because I keep my phones for years. My last phone was a Motorola Q and it was on the 3rd battery (original, replacement, replacement) before it would not able to boot completely (stuck at the M logo). I think each battery was good for a about 2 years so I did keep that phone for about 6 years because of the replaceable battery.

If the battery was not replaceable, then it would be good for about 2 years or so in my case.

Meh. My lumia 635 was $50. Has a removable battery and storage expansion via SD slot. It makes calls as good as any phone 10x it's price, answers emails, texts and takes basic pictures. You can browse the web and get most basic apps. Battery life is excellent too. Trendy not need apply.

I just received a prepaid debit card from Cricket for $75 so my 635 was essential "free" for me. I am not crazy about the battery power and the lack of apps compare to iOS and Android phones.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Maybe Apple uses higher quality batteries? My wife's original iPad battery still holds a charge after 5 years and is usable. But our original 7" Samsung Galaxy Tab battery is completely dead and will not hold a charge. It stopped holding a charge after 2-3 years. I had to buy a new tablet because of the dead battery.

Could be. For a while there Apple did put extra emphasis on the batteries.

Also, doesn't Apple only let the phone access a certain portion of the battery (meaning fully charged is not really the battery fully charged), and then adjust its over time so that it holds up over a longer period? I would also guess that they do more software work to try and mitigate excessive battery use.

A lot of Android phones have bragged about fast charging and I'm sure that degrades batteries faster.

Apple also tends to support devices a bit longer. We've seen instances on both iOS and Android of certain devices having problems that caused excessive power use and it seems like Apple does updates to resolve it while I don't know that happens as much on Android. Could be wrong though (especially for people that don't really update their devices).

Smartphones would definitely be hard on batteries though. So I'm not shocked that they'd wear out batteries faster than MP3 players (slow drain), although I guess I should be shocked that mine held up like they did (considering it was a refurb which might've meant a new battery, but I've had it since '08 or maybe '09 and it's had about the worst usage you can put on it, periods of lots of use so charging fairly often and often all the way down, then long periods of no use, often with the battery already drained).

 

[Greenman]

?



?

That doesn't make any sense. Why would you buy whatever is trendy (and expensive), when a dirt-cheap feature phone would be overkill for you?

Generally the way it works is my phone goes off a second floor on to concrete, except for the time I ran it over with a tractor, so I always need a new phone right now, not in a couple days, not in 3 hours, right now.
I end up with whatever is on the shelf. Last one was an S3 that I actually like (after adding a giant battery).

 

[Schfifty Five]

I'm kinda late to the discussion it seems, but I actually prefer not having a removable battery if that means the phone is thinner, sleeker, and has a better feel to it.

Prior to me getting iphone 5 and 6, I had phones with removable batteries (androids, HTCs, samsungs) and the one thing in common with those is the very cheap, low quality, plasticy feel of the back plate housing the battery. Not only did it feel cheap, it took away from the clean/sleek look.

So yeah, no removable battery is not an issue for me.

 

[Eug]

Batteries that are subjected to fewer deep charge/discharge cycles and aren't exposed to a lot of heat will obviously last significantly longer.

Indeed, but I am the worst for maintaining batteries. I often keep my laptops plugged in at 100%, and then I'll use them until 0 or near 0. Or what I actually do is I just charge them to full, sometimes from say 90%. Sometimes from 50%. Or sometimes from 0. IOW, I just use the laptops how I want to use them (whether it'd be for 50% of the charge or 100% of the charge), and then I plug it in and leave it plugged-in until I use it next. I'm told this is not the way to get the best life out of your batteries.

Despite this, I'm still on the original battery for my 2009 MacBook Pro, so that makes it 6 years old now. The battery life isn't the greatest, but that's mainly because battery life in general from that era wasn't the greatest in the first place. However, I suspect I have 2/3rds of the original battery life, although I'm guessing. It's probably not 3/4, but it's definitely way more than half.

I have seen the expected lifespan of lithium batteries listed as 3-5 years several times when trying to find an answer to this question. Personally, I have had some last longer than five years and some completely refuse to hold any charge whatsoever in less than three years, so I am guessing there are extreme cases either way. I imagine there is a lot of variability due to different stress levels on the battery as well. I'm sure a battery pack subjected to a Qi charger every day will not last as long as a pack that never gets charged wirelessly simply due to heat. Maybe a good rule of thumb is to expect at least three years out of normal usage but don't be bummed if that's all you get.

I think it depends on the software maintaining it. Note my comment above about my 2009 MacBook Pro. This is in stark contrast from my iBooks from over a decade ago. Those things used to go through batteries like mad. It was much worse with non-OEM batteries too. I must have had about 5 iBook batteries in my closet from various iBooks I've owned.

BTW, my hybrid car uses a Lithium ion battery. It's a bit of an unusual case, because the dealership used it as a car to transport customers around the city, but almost never charged it... in 2.5 years before I bought it. I was looking through the charging stats, and out of the 29000 km driven over 2.5 years, only about 700 were in electric vehicle mode. All the rest were in hybrid mode, which effectively meant the extra battery for the plug-in feature of the car was always empty.

Except it wasn't, because presumably that's now how Toyota has designed the battery charging software. I've read that when you "fully" discharge the car, you never fully discharge the battery. I believe there is always at least about 20% juice in the battery. Similarly, when you "fully" charge the car, you never fully charge it, and it's probably below 80% charged. I also wonder if they're rotating the cells charged to spread out the work. All I can say is that although the dealer basically never plugged in the car, the range I get with it as expected with a new one, meaning the battery hasn't seen any significant life degradation over 2.5 years. Or if there is degradation, it's less than 5% judging by what I read online.

Using the claims by some in this thread, that Lithium ion battery should be on its last legs, ready to die completely any time now.

I know a car isn't a laptop, and car analogies never are perfect, but I suspect Apple and other manufacturers are employing a similar method (albeit not anywhere near as drastic) to help extend the lives of their batteries.

 

[Scarpozzi]

They're all assembled by hand...then can be disassembled by hand too (somewhat easily)... My old Motorola Razr's back was stuck on using adhesive....removing the back didn't damage the adhesive...it popped back together and you couldn't tell it had been pulled apart.

I paid $13 for a replacement battery on the 2 year (at the time) phone.

 

[tortillasoup]

I know a car isn't a laptop, and car analogies never are perfect, but I suspect Apple and other manufacturers are employing a similar method (albeit not anywhere near as drastic) to help extend the lives of their batteries.

Only some manufacturers employ such things but it's a lot more obvious such as lenovo with their "battery saver" feature where you can keep the laptop's battery topped off at like 60% even when you have the computer on A/C for an extended period of time. I love this feature because it means that my laptop's battery is still good even though I bought the laptop in 2012. I wish phones had more customizable charging schemes where the battery could be tailored to stop charging at like 80% instead of 100%.

 

[Ichinisan]

Indeed, but I am the worst for maintaining batteries. I often keep my laptops plugged in at 100%, and then I'll use them until 0 or near 0. Or what I actually do is I just charge them to full, sometimes from say 90%. Sometimes from 50%. Or sometimes from 0. IOW, I just use the laptops how I want to use them (whether it'd be for 50% of the charge or 100% of the charge), and then I plug it in and leave it plugged-in until I use it next. I'm told this is not the way to get the best life out of your batteries.

Despite this, I'm still on the original battery for my 2009 MacBook Pro, so that makes it 6 years old now. The battery life isn't the greatest, but that's mainly because battery life in general from that era wasn't the greatest in the first place. However, I suspect I have 2/3rds of the original battery life, although I'm guessing. It's probably not 3/4, but it's definitely way more than half.


I think it depends on the software maintaining it. Note my comment above about my 2009 MacBook Pro. This is in stark contrast from my iBooks from over a decade ago. Those things used to go through batteries like mad. It was much worse with non-OEM batteries too. I must have had about 5 iBook batteries in my closet from various iBooks I've owned.

BTW, my hybrid car uses a Lithium ion battery. It's a bit of an unusual case, because the dealership used it as a car to transport customers around the city, but almost never charged it... in 2.5 years before I bought it. I was looking through the charging stats, and out of the 29000 km driven over 2.5 years, only about 700 were in electric vehicle mode. All the rest were in hybrid mode, which effectively meant the extra battery for the plug-in feature of the car was always empty.

Except it wasn't, because presumably that's now how Toyota has designed the battery charging software. I've read that when you "fully" discharge the car, you never fully discharge the battery. I believe there is always at least about 20% juice in the battery. Similarly, when you "fully" charge the car, you never fully charge it, and it's probably below 80% charged. I also wonder if they're rotating the cells charged to spread out the work. All I can say is that although the dealer basically never plugged in the car, the range I get with it as expected with a new one, meaning the battery hasn't seen any significant life degradation over 2.5 years. Or if there is degradation, it's less than 5% judging by what I read online.

Using the claims by some in this thread, that Lithium ion battery should be on its last legs, ready to die completely any time now.

I know a car isn't a laptop, and car analogies never are perfect, but I suspect Apple and other manufacturers are employing a similar method (albeit not anywhere near as drastic) to help extend the lives of their batteries.

Regenerative braking. It's how hybrids work.

 

[Eug]

Regenerative braking. It's how hybrids work.

Yes, but it's not the same for plug-in hybrids. It's impossible to charge up a plug-in hybrid with regenerative braking, etc.

The battery capacity on a standard Prius is 1.3 kWh. The battery capacity on a plug-in Prius is 4.4 kWh. The difference is over 3 kWh, and you're not going to be getting that on regenerative breaking obviously. Furthermore, with the plug-in, you can run the car without ever having the gas engine come on.

IOW, if you never plug in your Plug-in Prius, in theory you are always running the battery below 30% capacity.

Only some manufacturers employ such things but it's a lot more obvious such as lenovo with their "battery saver" feature where you can keep the laptop's battery topped off at like 60% even when you have the computer on A/C for an extended period of time. I love this feature because it means that my laptop's battery is still good even though I bought the laptop in 2012. I wish phones had more customizable charging schemes where the battery could be tailored to stop charging at like 80% instead of 100%.

Like I said, it hasn't been a significant issue with my 2009 MBP.

 

[Rakehellion]

F that. I'm not busting open my $700 iPhone for $60 savings.
I want it done right and official by a guy that does 10 of them a day and can do it in his sleep.

By the time you need the battery replaced, your phone will be worth $200.

 

[CZroe]

Yes, but it's not the same for plug-in hybrids. It's impossible to charge up a plug-in hybrid with regenerative braking, etc.

The battery capacity on a standard Prius is 1.3 kWh. The battery capacity on a plug-in Prius is 4.4 kWh. The difference is over 3 kWh, and you're not going to be getting that on regenerative breaking obviously. Furthermore, with the plug-in, you can run the car without ever having the gas engine come on.

IOW, if you never plug in your Plug-in Prius, in theory you are always running the battery below 30% capacity.


Like I said, it hasn't been a significant issue with my 2009 MBP.

I am pretty sure plug-in hybrids function exactly like first-gen "has only" hybrids except with the ability to fully charge when parked and, thus, can be tuned for more electric-only driving. Excess alternator power generation is still keeping the batteries charged like it would on a gas-only hybrid.

 

[Eug]

I am pretty sure plug-in hybrids function exactly like first-gen "has only" hybrids except with the ability to fully charge when parked and, thus, can be tuned for more electric-only driving. Excess alternator power generation is still keeping the batteries charged like it would on a gas-only hybrid.

No, it doesn't run quite the same way.

The usual hybrid functionality runs the car mostly as if it only has a 1.3 kWH battery. Sure, if the battery is charged to say 3 kWh full (out of the 4.4 kWh) and you force the engine to run (and yes there is a button for that), then it will keep the charge at 3 kWh more or less.

However, the default functionality of the plug-in version is actually to never run the gas engine. If you charge the car to 4.4 kWh, the car will simply run off electricity like an electric car and will drain the battery until it reaches the point when it's similar to the regular hybrid model, which has a battery capacity of 1.3 kWh. When it does reach that point, then the car turns into a regular hybrid.

Since I do mostly city driving, since my work commute is within the electric-only range, and since I can plug in the car at work, I will go entire days with the gas engine never coming on even once, so my gas fuel economy is infinity (or 0.0 L/100 km in Canadian terms).

However, if you discharge the battery and then you never plug in the car, then the battery charge will basically stay in that regular hybrid range the entire time and the car just functions like any other hybrid, which is what I meant by saying if you don't plug it in, it's in theory effectively only ever running at less than 30% capacity. The other 70% capacity is used for electric-only driving, and needs a plug to get charged.

---

Anyhoo, back to my point in the context of this thread:

According to the mileage stats as recorded by the car, out of its 29000 km usage, only about 700 km were electric-only driving. The rest of the driving, > 97%, was as a regular hybrid, because they just never bothered charging the thing. So for the vast majority of the car's life before I bought it, over 2/3rds of its battery capacity was simply not being used.

Yet, the battery capacity is still fine, presumably because of how the software manages its utilization.

 

[stockwiz]

I'll be using my S4 active with cricket wireless until the thing dies or cricket raises their prices or reduces their data (not likely) ... just put lollipop on my S4 active and no reason to replace it at all for the next few years for what I use it for.

I have yet to run across any slowdowns or issues so why replace it? It also has 2GB of ram... kind of silly the new iphones only have 1GB here in 2015.

 

[Svnla]

This is why more phones do not have removeable SD slots and batteries = https://www.yahoo.com/tech/the-real-reason-why-micro-sd-card-slots-are-118456089714.html

 

[JulesMaximus]

I think I've removed the battery in my current phone, a Samsung Galaxy S2 maybe three or four times in the four or so years I've owned it.

So, no... I don't give a fuck.

 

[Eug]

This is why more phones do not have removeable SD slots and batteries = https://www.yahoo.com/tech/the-real-reason-why-micro-sd-card-slots-are-118456089714.html

I had such problems in a Motorola with a legitimate Class 10 SanDisk microSD card. Then the card died completely and I to get a replacement from SanDisk. What a PITA.

And as I've said before, non-OEM batteries often just suck.

 

[tortillasoup]

I had such problems in a Motorola with a legitimate Class 10 SanDisk microSD card. Then the card died completely and I to get a replacement from SanDisk. What a PITA.

And as I've said before, non-OEM batteries often just suck.

Did you have a 16GB 32GB or 64GB SanDisk card? Those were recalled...

 

[OBLAMA2009]

man i usually buy motorola phones and ALL of them (razr, rzr m, razr ) after about a year the battery thickened and pushed the kelvar backing off. i would never buy an expensive phone without a replaceable battery. man, i wish i could post pic of these phones, the battery in the razr is lterally five times as thick as its supposed to be. nonreplaceable is a really flawed design man

 

[Ichinisan]

man i usually buy motorola phones and ALL of them (razr, rzr m, razr ) after about a year the battery thickened and pushed the kelvar backing off. i would never buy an expensive phone without a replaceable battery. man, i wish i could post pic of these phones, the battery in the razr is lterally five times as thick as its supposed to be. nonreplaceable is a really flawed design man

Sounds like the battery was flawed.

My friend had that happen to his GS3 battery.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Sounds like the battery was flawed.

My friend had that happen to his GS3 battery.

man, it happens with ALL motorola phones, so then they must all have defective batteries. its a total joke man

 

[CZroe]

It's happened with a few of my non-phone batteries too. It's just a LiIon/LiPo thing.