Would you be OK with work camps for illegal immigrants?

[3chordcharlie]

I propose much of our problems stems from the fact we have made it our responsibility! Hows that working out? Have you forgotten Clinton's nickname for awhile Peso Bill? Have you forgotten NAFTA? Im not saying its Clinton's fault AT ALL. Im simply pointing out we have taken a friendly approach for well over a decade.

Look where that's gotten us.

That's just it - NAFTA was hardly a friendly approach from the point of view of Mexican workers (or American ones!).

And you're right, a hands-off approach was better than what we have now, but that *includes* keeping foreign industrialists out of the third world.

Free trade between relative equals is highly beneficial. 'Free trade' with the third world continues to be a disaster, particularly when the 'foreign' trade is domestically financed.

 

[Siddhartha]

Lets say the government is considering establishing work camps in the south of the country, where illegal migrant workers will receive shelter, food and medical care. In exchange, illegal migrants would perform manual labor outside the camps, but would not earn a salary.

They would stay at the camp until their asylum claims are decided, which could take months or years.


Would you be okay with this?

Thread moved to P&N due to the nature of the discussion - DrPizza, Anandtech Moderator.

That sounds like slavery.

Tell you what you and your family spend a couple of years in a camp like this and get back to us.

The US should not be running "work camps".

 

[StageLeft]

Thats not true. In fact, in 2006 Mexico represented the largest source of immigrants both legal and illegal. http://www.migrationinformation.org/USfocus/display.cfm?id=679

Sure, but the average Mexican without a strong education or skill set still can't do it.

Are you hinting that Mexico, as a country, is conspiring to smuggle its own citizens into our country? When you say "Mexico's continual dumping" it sounds like it. If so please provide supporting evidence.

If not explicit I think it's tacit, and this makes sense. IIRC the single greatest part of Mexico's GDP is or at least recently was money sent from the US back to Mexico to family members. It sounds so ridiculous but I read it from a decent source.

Same. It would be almost humourous if it weren't for the fact that these views are, sadly, closely representative of the average American.

If you believe this about Americans why do you spend time on a forum made up predominantly of them, what does that say about you that you hang out with people who as a whole would support making forced labor camps for their illegal immigrant population?

 

[blackangst1]

That's just it - NAFTA was hardly a friendly approach from the point of view of Mexican workers (or American ones!).

And you're right, a hands-off approach was better than what we have now, but that *includes* keeping foreign industrialists out of the third world.

Free trade between relative equals is highly beneficial. 'Free trade' with the third world continues to be a disaster, particularly when the 'foreign' trade is domestically financed.

I 100% emphatically disagree. NAFTA is a separate issue though.

 

[blackangst1]

Sure, but the average Mexican without a strong education or skill set still can't do it.

Dude. The average citizen without a good education from ANY country couldnt. Mexico is no different. But you earlier said theres no legal way for most Mexicans to immigrate here...which is FALSE. Is it easy? No. Nor should it be! But it isnt easy for ANYONE.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Dude. The average citizen without a good education from ANY country couldnt. Mexico is no different. But you earlier said theres no legal way for most Mexicans to immigrate here...which is FALSE. Is it easy? No. Nor should it be! But it isnt easy for ANYONE.

Why shouldn't it be, you Son of an immigrant?!?!

 

[StageLeft]

Dude. The average citizen without a good education from ANY country couldnt. Mexico is no different. But you earlier said theres no legal way for most Mexicans to immigrate here...which is FALSE. Is it easy? No. Nor should it be! But it isnt easy for ANYONE.

Case in point; most Mexicans lack the education/skill set to legally immigrate to the US. This is simply a fact. For most if they want to come here they have to do it illegally. And even if technically they had the skill set and education, having done it myself I can say it's a very expensive route and one many would lack the money to fund.

 

[blackangst1]

Why shouldn't it be, you Son of an immigrant?!?!

I have one word for you: sovereignty

 

[blackangst1]

Case in point; most Mexicans lack the education/skill set to legally immigrate to the US. This is simply a fact. For most if they want to come here they have to do it illegally. And even if technically they had the skill set and education, having done it myself I can say it's a very expensive route and one many would lack the money to fund.

And so? Why do you keep focusing on Mexicans?

 

[3chordcharlie]

I 100% emphatically disagree. NAFTA is a separate issue though.

Well I can't condemn you just for being wrong!

NAFTA and similar agreements are a significant contributor to just the sort of trade I'm talking about.

I'm not much on protectionism, but foreign capital can really mess with markets. Free trade with Mexico is one thing, but free trade with American industry located in Mexico is quite different.

I don't expect it to go away on its own though, considering you can pretty much run a whole industrial operation in (let's say, China) for the cost of living in a decent home in the suburbs of North America.

 

[piasabird]

I have a better Idea. Put them on a transport ship take them down to the southern tip of South America and kick them off into the ocean. If they can make it back then they deserve a chance to live here.

Send them to Afghanistan.

 

[feralkid]

So we dont hold people who have been charged awaiting trial?

Not in forced labor camps.

 

[JKing106]

I have a better Idea. Put them on a transport ship take them down to the southern tip of South America and kick them off into the ocean. If they can make it back then they deserve a chance to live here.

Send them to Afghanistan.

I have a better idea. Give them all a copy of your post, then drop them off on your front lawn. Let's see how many you can shoot before they cut your fucking head off. That sound fun, Rambo?

 

[werepossum]

I don't think you ever make people work for free. But then, I also have a big problem with government taking money from one person to give it to another.

I think our biggest problem with illegal immigrants isn't even the number of them, it's that we insist on treating them in groups rather than as individuals. Thus the habitual drunk driver is treated as equal to the guy who has never had a ticket, the tatted up unemployed gangbanger is equal to the guy working his ass off on a construction or landscaping crew, the welfare mom is equal to the lady cleaning your office.

I have watched illegals absolutely kill construction and manufacturing though. When I first moved into AEC engineering sixteen years ago drywallers made about $18 an hour; now they make about $10 an hour and are 90% illegals. Same thing with manufacturing. Used to be even without an education, if you worked hard in America you would be successful. Nowadays there's an endless string of illegals willing and eager to work for minimum wage to $10 and hour, no complaints, no benefits. Doesn't matter how hard you work, you're never going to outdo a guy who left a tin and tar paper shanty.

 

[JKing106]

I don't think you ever make people work for free. But then, I also have a big problem with government taking money from one person to give it to another.

Me too, especially when they use it to send other people's kids to learn to read, write, and do arithmetic. Fuck those kids, they're not mine. They can eat shit and die as far as I'm concerned.

 

[werepossum]

Me too, especially when they use it to send other people's kids to learn to read, write, and do arithmetic. Fuck those kids, they're not mine. They can eat shit and die as far as I'm concerned.

That's taking money from one person for the public good (assuming we can still call government education good.) I'm speaking of wealth transfer.

Reading for comprehension - evidently harder than I thought.

 

[JKing106]

"I have watched illegals absolutely kill construction and manufacturing though."

No, you've watched employers break the law and cut the throats of their fellow countrymen for a higher profit. Baby Jeebus bless the holy Dollar! Can I get an "Amen?!"

 

[JKing106]

That's taking money from one person for the public good (assuming we can still call government education good.) I'm speaking of wealth transfer.

Reading for comprehension - evidently harder than I thought.

Oh, you're talking about TARP, and the transfer of our taxes meant for the "public good" that when into CEO's and Execs bonuses. My bad. I agree 100%.

 

[werepossum]

Oh, you're talking about TARP, and the transfer of our taxes meant for the "public good" that when into CEO's and Execs bonuses. My bad. I agree 100%.

TARP is certainly part of it. If a company is truly too big to be allowed to fail and must be bailed out, break that puppy up into little pieces so that the next time it fails it won't be too big.

 

[StageLeft]

And so? Why do you keep focusing on Mexicans?

Why in a thread about illegal immigrants am I focusing on the group of people who make up the greatest portion of those illegals? I wonder.

 

[Jaskalas]

IF you want to stop illegal immigration, attack it at it's source, improve conditions where they come from instead of exploiting them. US corps are really bad at that at our expense.

A secure border is a hell of a lot more affordable and possible than that.

 

[blackangst1]

Why in a thread about illegal immigrants am I focusing on the group of people who make up the greatest portion of those illegals? I wonder.

Touche

 

[piasabird]

Dont make the governemnt larger, make it smaller.

Immigrants = Slave Laborers.
Pelosi = Slave Mistress

 

[feralkid]

A secure border is a hell of a lot more affordable and possible than that.

Not by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Siddhartha]

"I have watched illegals absolutely kill construction and manufacturing though."

No, you've watched employers break the law and cut the throats of their fellow countrymen for a higher profit. Baby Jeebus bless the holy Dollar! Can I get an "Amen?!"

It is the same thing with companies moving manufacturing jobs offshore.